OSAS is biblical, "Perseverance of the Saints" is not.

Saint Steven

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Once Shaved always Shaved is not Biblical.
Can you really make a blanket statement like that? (as if it is true)

Oops, my bad. You wrote "shaved", not "saved". - LOL

On the likely chance that it was a typographical error, consider this...

Romans 8:38-39 NIV
For I am convinced that neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither the present nor the future, nor any powers, 39 neither height nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God that is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
 
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Saint Steven

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No where does Jesus say "once you're saved you're always saved" He actually says "Narrow is the way and few find it" and "sin no more so that nothing worse may happen to you" and forgive your brother who has sinned against you so your Heavenly Father will forgive you".
The word Trinity is not in the Bible either. What should we conclude about that?
That Jesus didn't use the exact wording of modern day doctrine is meaningless, right?

Do you understand "Narrow is the way and few find it" to mean that God has made salvation a nearly unsolvable puzzle with the consequences of eternal damnation for the VAST majority that fail? Thus playing a VERY high-stakes game with our souls?

Is this all we have to offer in place of eternal security? Which you claim is unbiblical. (unless you really did mean "Shaved" - LOL)

We cannot by an act of our own will undo what only God can do in the first place.
Even reprobation is God's choice.

Is a guarantee from God worthless?

2 Corinthians 1:22 NIV
set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
 
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Blade

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I will agree just saying something is true based on a personal believe does not make it true. And I agree I can not find OSAS verse nor you can lose your salvation verse. I can like anyone else take a bunch of verses can make the case for both yet that is not wise to do. 1st John about if we have sin. They say he was talking to some that believed they didn't sin. Yet what the sweet sweet holy Spirit said and duh be applied to us today. Sin does not keep my out of Heaven. Those books He opens He is looking for something :) Now the Lambs book in which I am written in no one has ever according to the word of God been blotted out of. Just because we personally believe you can lose your salvation or you can't is just that. Its a personal belief that is not scriptural. Am I always saved or can I lose my salvation. WHY would any believer have these thoughts? I don't. As if my salvation is some how based on my actions? The simple fact anything God gives He never takes it back. Then man pops up "doesnt mean we can't give it back". Sure why not you show me tell me how you as man can give back undo what only a GOD can do. Undo as in that new man which after God is "created" in "righteousness" and true "holiness". Please share how you can undo that new created spirit that was once dead.

The meat here is faith/trust. To touch on what some talked about.... Matt-John they were still living by under the law. NT Christ already rose YES AMEN! Context always matters and yes we can always take what Christ said apply it to today. He is the word and one word can have endless meanings. 1st John they say he was talking to some that believed they do not sin. Yet again we can take what the sweet sweet holy spirit said and apply to us today. The meat is we are not of this world, this world is not our home, we are ambassadors yet we walk talk think feel by the natural. Which I fully understand. All of this is not real. Not the real realm. Christ told us, your will be done on earth as it is in heaven. There are angels everywhere and demons every where yet we walk think feel by what we see and hear. Paul said its no longer I that sin but sin that is in me. Paul knew who the new man was which was created in righteousness and true holiness. For some to think they can undo what only a GOD created. Then to know everything God gives He never takes back. I could have and should have just said "OSAS or you can lose your salvation" What believer has those thoughts? Everything were talking about is not based on the natural. Yet we filter it through the natural its all most know and understand.

If were going to talk about this then talk about it as your Father sees you. There is no sin here. If you believe in, trust in, have faith in, cling to Christ then the Father sees you through what Christ already finished. You are right now holy spotless righteous. NOT on anything you did or can or will do but what Christ already did. As Paul or the sweet sweet holy Spirit said NO this does not ever give us the right to sin. Its no longer us that sin but sin that is in us. This flesh has not been changed.. .hello meat. Thoughts.. the mind is the enemy's playground. "you can lose your salvation" A thought I once had when He first found me. Then now and again over the years in my weakest points yet it was always will be a lie. God would never say that to me. He always backs up what He says by His word. When wanted to was going to walk away because of how my heart always convicted me of sin 24/7. He never touched the sin. Do you know what He got me to see was? He asked me "what is righteousness?" Right standing with God I said. Then asked "how do you get righteousness?" By believing in Jesus I said. Something happened I could not stop crying. I at that time heard this yet duh knew it was God yet I still went right then to the word to make sure it was written. ALWAYS test the spirits.

Were posing in public.. lets remember the weak in the faith that can stubble on this so easily. Meat is.. its not the natural things were talking about here but spiritual the supernatural. Just trust in what Christ said not any person. Believe what He said who He said He was that the Father raised Him from the dead you will not taste death. What He started in YOU He not you.. He will finish. Some will get to heaven with no reward others will fall and cry and jumping for joy thinking they would never get to heaven. Others with great rewards. Not many understand tasting the powers of the age to come.
 
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Der Alte

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I will agree just saying something is true based on a personal believe does not make it true. And I agree I can not find OSAS verse nor you can lose your salvation verse. * * *
"I can not find ...[a] lose your salvation verse."
It depends on what one means by "lose your salvation." I lost a pair of glasses a week or 2 ago. I don't know where it happened. I looked in a few places but no luck. One's salvation cannot be lost in a way similar to how I lost my glasses. However, check this passage.
Hebrews 10:26-31
(26) For if we sin willfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,
(27) But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
(28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden underfoot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
(30) For we know him that hath said, Vengeance belongeth unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people.
(31) It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.​
Some will argue that this passage is not talking about a "real" Christian but someone who only "received the knowledge." We know this is not the case because vs. 29 says of such people, "who tramples on God's Son, treats as common the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified, and insults the Spirit of grace." Only real Christians are sanctified by the blood of the covenant. So what is their fate? Something worse than dying without mercy.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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The word Trinity is not in the Bible either. What should we conclude about that?
That Jesus didn't use the exact wording of modern day doctrine is meaningless, right?

Do you understand "Narrow is the way and few find it" to mean that God has made salvation a nearly unsolvable puzzle with the consequences of eternal damnation for the VAST majority that fail? Thus playing a VERY high-stakes game with our souls?

Is this all we have to offer in place of eternal security? Which you claim is unbiblical. (unless you really did mean "Shaved" - LOL)

We cannot by an act of our own will undo what only God can do in the first place.
Even reprobation is God's choice.

Is a guarantee from God worthless?

2 Corinthians 1:22 NIV
set his seal of ownership on us, and put his Spirit in our hearts as a deposit, guaranteeing what is to come.
Do you think we are incapable of sinning?

If you sin and don't ask for forgiveness what do you think Jesus's response to that is?

Blessed are those who wash their robes, that they may have the right to the tree of life and may go through the gates into the city. Revelation 22:14
 
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Saint Steven

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Danthemailman

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Hebrews 10 is not talking about losing your salvation, it is talking about those who were enlightened (knew the gospel) yet rejected it, there is no more sacrifice for sins, they willfully rejected the truth. Being enlightened doesn't = saved and then losing it by sinning. salvation cannot be lost. If salvation can be lost by willful sin then nobody is saved...
In Hebrews 10:26, to "sin willfully" in the Greek carries the idea of deliberate intention that is habitual, which stems from rejecting Christ deliberately. This is continuous action, a matter of practice. Now we don't walk along our daily life and "accidentally" fall into a pit called sin. We exercise our will but, the use of the participle clearly shows willful, continuous action. The unrighteous practice sin (1 Corinthians 6:9-10; Galatians 5:19-21); not the righteous, who are born of God. (1 Corinthians 6:11; 1 John 3:9)

Now if the word 'sanctified' in Hebrews 10:29 is used to describe saved people who lost their salvation, then we have a contradiction because the writer of Hebrews in verse 10 said "sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all" (Hebrews 10:10) and in verse 14, we read, "perfected for all time those who are sanctified." (Hebrews 10:14)

*NOWHERE in the context does it specifically say the person who "trampled under foot the Son of God, and has regarded as unclean the blood of the covenant" was "saved" and/or "lost their salvation." The reference to "the blood of the covenant that sanctified him" in verse 29 "on the surface" appears to be referring to a Christian, but this overlooks the fact that the word translated "sanctified" (which is the verb form of the adjective "holy") which means "set apart," and doesn't always refer to salvation.

In 1 Corinthians 7:14, Paul uses it to specifically refer to non-Christians who are "sanctified" or "set apart" by their believing spouse (and by this Paul does not mean that they are saved). A non-Christian can be "set apart" from other non-Christians without experiencing salvation as Paul explained. So the word "sanctified" basically means to be "set apart." If the word "sanctified" simply meant saved, then you would have to say that the seventh day was saved (Genesis 2:3), the tabernacle was saved (Exodus 29:43), Moses saved the people after coming down off the mountain (Exodus 19:14), the priests and the Levites saved themselves (1 Chronicles 15:14), the Father saved the Son (John 10:36), the Son saved Himself (John 17:19) and many others that do not line up with scripture.

In verse 39, the writer of Hebrews sets up the CONTRAST that makes it clear to me that he was referring to unbelievers, not saved people: But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul. Those who draw back to perdition do not believe to the saving of the soul and those who believe to the saving of the soul do not draw back to perdition.

So after considering the CONTEXT, it seems most likely that "he was sanctified" should be understood in the sense of someone who had been "set apart" or identified with this community of Hebrew Christian believers, but then later renounces his identification with these Hebrew believers, by rejecting the "knowledge of the truth" that he had received, and trampling under foot the work and the person of Christ himself. This gives evidence that his identification with these Hebrew Christian believers was only superficial and that he was not a genuine believer.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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Why do I feel as though I am talking to the police? - LOL
No, officer.

He has already forgiven me. The price paid was sufficient. "While we were yet sinners..."
What do you think of this verse:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:9
 
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Saint Steven

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What do you think of this verse:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

1 John 1:9
What do I think of that verse? I think that verse is just fine. But you probably knew that. (waiting for the other shoe to drop)
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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What do I think of that verse? I think that verse is just fine. But you probably knew that. (waiting for the other shoe to drop)
-_- ok i'll walk you through the part i wanted you to talk about since i got no response:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins

key word "confess" he doesn't say "no need to confess" or "no matter what you're forgiven" it's if we confess.
 
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Saint Steven

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-_- ok i'll walk you through the part i wanted you to talk about since i got no response:

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins

key word "confess" he doesn't say "no need to confess" or "no matter what you're forgiven" it's if we confess.
I read back through the previous posts trying to figure out what you are alluding to here.
Since I am being characterized as unresponsive.

Wasn't your point that we can't be forgiven unless we ask to be forgiven?
How is acknowledgement of our sinful condition "asking"?
It seems more like receiving to me. Receiving (or even realizing) something that is already there.

As soon as we go beyond the finished work of Christ and require something of ourselves, we enter a fog.
Did I say the right words? Did I confess ALL my sins? Was I really remorseful? Was I remorseful enough? How are such things measured?
Christ's finished work is a measurable thing. It is finished.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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I read back through the previous posts trying to figure out what you are alluding to here.
Since I am being characterized as unresponsive.

Wasn't your point that we can't be forgiven unless we ask to be forgiven?
How is acknowledgement of our sinful condition "asking"?
It seems more like receiving to me. Receiving (or even realizing) something that is already there.

As soon as we go beyond the finished work of Christ and require something of ourselves, we enter a fog.
Did I say the right words? Did I confess ALL my sins? Was I really remorseful? Was I remorseful enough? How are such things measured?
Christ's finished work is a measurable thing. It is finished.
Your ignoring the verse and adding your own definition of it.

it says confess, you can't be more clear than that. You have to confess, you cannot just sit there and sin and not ask for forgivenss, you need to ask. Asking for forgivenss is not adding to what Christ did to think so is false.
 
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Danthemailman

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I read back through the previous posts trying to figure out what you are alluding to here.
Since I am being characterized as unresponsive.

Wasn't your point that we can't be forgiven unless we ask to be forgiven?
How is acknowledgement of our sinful condition "asking"?
It seems more like receiving to me. Receiving (or even realizing) something that is already there.

As soon as we go beyond the finished work of Christ and require something of ourselves, we enter a fog.
Did I say the right words? Did I confess ALL my sins? Was I really remorseful? Was I remorseful enough? How are such things measured?
Christ's finished work is a measurable thing. It is finished.
Notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10).

Some people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific, exhaustive inventory) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and if we forget a sin we are toast! That would turn confession into a work for salvation.

Believers speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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Notice that - If we confess our sins, he is faithful and righteous to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9) is IN CONTRAST TO - If we say that we have no sin, (present tense) we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us (vs. 8) and - If we say that we have not sinned, (past tense) we make him a liar, and his word is not in us (vs. 10).

Some people misunderstand verse 9 to mean that we "must confess each and every sin that we commit as we commit them" (keep a specific, exhaustive inventory) as an "additional requirement" to "remain cleansed" and if we forget a sin we are toast! That would turn confession into a work for salvation.

Believers speak the same/acknowledge/agree with God's perspective about their sins and have a settled recognition and acknowledgment that one is a sinner in need of cleansing and forgiveness.
If my friend sinned against me and then apologized by saying "sorry for whatever i did" without even taking the time to mention what they did wrong towards me i wouldn't even consider it a genuine apology. Relationships take work and so does our relationship with Christ. Anyone who says otherwise is misleading you.
 
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Ceallaigh

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If my friend sinned against me and then apologized by saying "sorry for whatever i did" without even taking the time to mention what they did wrong towards me i wouldn't even consider it a genuine apology. Relationships take work and so does our relationship with Christ. Anyone who says otherwise is misleading you.
Are you saying you would refuse to forgive your friend if his apology wasn't good enough for you?
 
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Receivedgrace

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If my friend sinned against me and then apologized by saying "sorry for whatever i did" without even taking the time to mention what they did wrong towards me i wouldn't even consider it a genuine apology. Relationships take work and so does our relationship with Christ. Anyone who says otherwise is misleading you.
Good that Christ did not take that attitude.
Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.
Christ did more for me than I could ever do.
 
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eleos1954

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Once Saved always saved is not calvinist doctrine, yet many falsely accuse OSAS believers of being calvinist. Calvinism teaches "Perseverance of the saints" which means that those who are truly saved will work until the end. Romans 4:5 debunks that false doctrine. OSAS believes that Whosever believeth in Jesus is saved, and can't be plucked from Jesus or the Father's hand no matter what they do because salvation is not works based but based on faith in Lord Jesus.

I can't tell you the amount of false prophets I have seen teaching that Once Saved Always Saved is some made up doctrine created by John Calvin in the 1600's, when that is a complete and total lie. Calvinists think that you must work until the end to earn or prove you are saved, the Calvinist/reformed camp claim to believe in faith alone yet they then will falsely will say "true faith is never alone" or "we are not saved by works but those who are truly saved will have the works" it is double talk works salvation nonsense, either it is by faith alone or it is not. you can't have both and you can't backload works into salvation. OSAS truly is faith alone, and truly is believing in Christ totally for our salvation, and nothing we do earns it.

OSAS = Biblical (read Gospel of John, Romans, Galatians, Titus 3, pretty much all of Pauls writings) it is everywhere in the NT, and even in the OT Abraham believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. whoever believes in Christ is saved, it's by faith, the Just live by faith, we are Abrahams seed by faith in Jesus, children of God by faith in the Jesus, not of works, Jesus paid it all and died, was buried, bodily rose again, and whosoever believeth in him is saved and has eternal life.

Some people also confuse the Calvinist teaching of "Perseverance of the Saints" as meaning that God preserves the saved until the end which is not what "Perseverance of the Saints" is, but many are confused. it is not Preservation of the Saints, it is perseverance. Big difference. Of Course God is the one who preserves us, that is not what the P in TUILP stands for however, but I talk to and see so many confused and think that is what the P in tulip stands for.

The Amount of people I see deceived on this topic by so many calvinist false teachers, and then false demon prophets who who lump OSAS into being a calvinist doctrine when it is not, look God is not the Author of confusion, this "Perseverance of the Saints" doctrine is demonic, and unbiblical. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.

the definition of Perseverance = difficult, hard work. now is salvation hard? or easy? well the Bible clearly teaches that it is easy to be saved, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, Romans 10:9-10, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, Ephesians 2:8-9 Acts 16:30-31

Salvation is whosoever believeth in him, whosoever will let him take the water of life freely, we are justified freely by his grace. the will of the Father is to believe on the Son (John 6:40) not "whosoever perseveres until the end will be saved" There are countless examples in the Bible of saved believers in Christ falling into sin, even dying in a state of sin or committing suicide, yet they were saved because they believed in Christ. How one dies has no bearing on whether they were saved or not. And if you think about it, if OSAS were not true then that would mean that our works have something to do with salvation, or staying saved. which is false doctrine and contradicts clear Bible verses. Our works do not justify us before God. I'm going off on a rant here there is much more I can say about this.

OSAS is biblical​


Is not .... God never removes our freedom to choose.
 
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SeventhFisherofMen

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Good that Christ did not take that attitude.
Father forgive them for they do not know what they are doing.
Christ did more for me than I could ever do.
so if you are able to ask for forgiveness you just won't? Just because Jesus can give grace doesn't mean we should trample on grace. If we are capable of asking for forgiveness then we should
 
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Rapture Bound

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Perseverance is not the same as Preservation, seriously you can't be arguing that they are the same thing?
Here's my take on the issue, I also do not view the two concepts as being the same. Although the terms are not synonymous, there appears to be a very close correlation. The confusion, debate, and difficulty here centers around just how a person perceives and defines that correlation/relationship.

What does that correlation/relationship look like? My position is ... since God has promised to preserve all born again believers, they will [inevitably] persevere in the faith ... by faith.

On the other hand, those who believe that some genuine believers will forfeit their justified status [i.e. - "lose" their salvation] view this perseverance as [conditional] rather than [inevitable]. That is to say, many of those L.O.S. ["Loss Of Salvation" advocates] disagree with my position by asserting that God will preserve [only] those born again believers who persevere in the faith ... by faith.

My response to those of the L.O.S. persuasion is that this is not an "either/or" scenario, but rather one of "both/and". So yes, I agree will the L.O.S. assertion with this one addendum ... all genuine believers will persevere. Both points [listed below] need to be acknowledged. Failure to do so results in setting scripture against scripture rather than reconciling those two streams of scriptural truth.

(1) We must persevere in the faith ... by faith in order to enter heaven (2 Tim.2:12; Heb.3:14;10:26). Not to persevere is to perish.

(2) God will preserve us in the faith even though at times we may doubt and wander from the path of righteousness. He will always remain true to his promise by ensuring that none of His children will fall so far as to finally and forever fail [everlastingly perish]. God will preserve us, we will in fact persevere, we will endure in the faith... by faith.

Jude 1:1-2,"Jude, a bondservant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, To those who are called, sanctified by God the Father, and preserved in Jesus Christ:"

1 Thessalonians 5:23-24," Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. He who calls you is faithful, who also will do it."


God doesn't simply require holiness; He promises it to all of His sons and daughters. If you know that you are in fact a child of God, if you have been born-again, then you can rest knowing that you will persevere. As Dr. Kenneth Keathley said, "perseverance should be viewed more as a promise than a requirement." The necessary conditions/requirements/fruits/works mentioned throughout scripture will be manifested and produced in all true believers by the Holy Spirit. They will exist as the inevitable by-product of the regenerating power of the Holy Spirit and the new nature/heart miraculously delivered at the new birth (John 3:3-8; Titus 3:5).

Titus 3:5," not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit,"

Many have greatly underestimated, and failed to grasp the magnitude of the renewing, regenerating work of the Holy Spirit, and His radical transformational effect upon the believer's nature. The Apostle Paul regards this change from sin to righteousness, from bondage to freedom, from death to life, as summed up in one definite act of the past; potentially available to all men in Jesus' sacrificial death and resurrection, and actualized (effectual) in each individual when they place their trust in Christ's atoning work.

2 Corinthians 5:17-21,"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new."

What is the condition of renewal? ‘If any man be in Christ’-how distinctly that implies something more than human in Paul’s conception of Christ. It implies personal union with Him, so that He is the very element or atmosphere in which we live. And that union is brought about by faith in Him.

How does such a state of union with Christ make a man a new creation? It gives a new aim and center for our lives. Then we live not unto ourselves; then everything is different and looks so, for the center is shifted. That union introduces a constant reference to Him and contemplation of His death for us, it leads to self-abnegation.

It puts all life under the influence of a new love. ‘The love of Christ constraineth.’ As is a man’s love, so is his life. The mightiest devolution is to excite a new love, by which old loves and tastes are expelled. ‘A new affection’ has ‘expulsive power,’ as the new sap rising in the springtime pushes off the lingering withered leaves. So union with Him meets the difficulty arising from inclination still hankering after evil. The new love gives a new and mighty motive for obedience.

That union breaks the terrible chain that binds us to the past. ‘All died.’ The past is broken as much as if we were dead. It is broken by the great act of forgiveness. Sin holds men by making them feel as if what has been must be-an awful entail of evil. In Christ we die to former self.

That union brings a new divine power to work in us. ‘I live, yet not I, but Christ liveth in me.’ It sets us in a new world which yet is the old. All things are changed if we are changed. They are the same old things, but seen in a new light, used for new purposes, disclosing new relations and powers. Earth becomes a school and discipline for heaven. The world is different to a blind man when cured, or to a deaf one,-there are new sights for the one, new sounds for the other. All this is true in the measure in which we live in union with Christ.

Ezekiel 36:26-28,"And I will give you a new heart, and a new spirit I will put within you. And I will remove the heart of stone from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my Spirit within you, and [cause you] to walk in my statutes and be careful to obey my rules. You shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers, and you shall be my people, and I will be your God."

This wonderful promise to the nation of Israel was cut at Calvary, and the wonderful promise to give His people a new heart and put a new spirit within is fulfilled in the life of (all - Jew or Gentile) who trust in the Lord Jesus Christ as the Savior of their soul and the Mediator for their sins. < What Does Ezekiel 36:26 Mean? >

Hebrews 8:10,"For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the Lord: I will put my laws into their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people." < Heb 8:10 Cross References (34 Verses) >

Romans 8:30,"Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified."

John 10:26-28,"But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, as I said to you. My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand."

John 6:39,"This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day."
 
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atpollard

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The reformers like so many today said that they were against works salvation and for faith alone, yet they still taught that the truly saved will have the works, or show evidence that they are saved, and persevere until the end. which is backloading works into salvation. we are either saved by our works or we are not, you can't say "we are not saved by works but the saved will have the works" or "faith alone but true faith is never alone" like the reformers did, that is called backloading works into salvation and that makes no logical sense, and is not biblical. So what they essentially did was teach a corrupted form of faith alone that isn't actually faith alone, and doesn't save anybody.
Ephesians 2:10 … true or false?
 
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