Let me ask you directly then:Once Saved always saved is not calvinist doctrine, yet many falsely accuse OSAS believers of being calvinist. Calvinism teaches "Perseverance of the saints" which means that those who are truly saved will work until the end. Romans 4:5 debunks that false doctrine. OSAS believes that Whosever believeth in Jesus is saved, and can't be plucked from Jesus or the Father's hand no matter what they do because salvation is not works based but based on faith in Lord Jesus.
I can't tell you the amount of false prophets I have seen teaching that Once Saved Always Saved is some made up doctrine created by John Calvin in the 1600's, when that is a complete and total lie. Calvinists think that you must work until the end to earn or prove you are saved, the Calvinist/reformed camp claim to believe in faith alone yet they then will falsely will say "true faith is never alone" or "we are not saved by works but those who are truly saved will have the works" it is double talk works salvation nonsense, either it is by faith alone or it is not. you can't have both and you can't backload works into salvation. OSAS truly is faith alone, and truly is believing in Christ totally for our salvation, and nothing we do earns it.
OSAS = Biblical (read Gospel of John, Romans, Galatians, Titus 3, pretty much all of Pauls writings) it is everywhere in the NT, and even in the OT Abraham believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. whoever believes in Christ is saved, it's by faith, the Just live by faith, we are Abrahams seed by faith in Jesus, children of God by faith in the Jesus, not of works, Jesus paid it all and died, was buried, bodily rose again, and whosoever believeth in him is saved and has eternal life.
Some people also confuse the Calvinist teaching of "Perseverance of the Saints" as meaning that God preserves the saved until the end which is not what "Perseverance of the Saints" is, but many are confused. it is not Preservation of the Saints, it is perseverance. Big difference. Of Course God is the one who preserves us, that is not what the P in TUILP stands for however, but I talk to and see so many confused and think that is what the P in tulip stands for.
The Amount of people I see deceived on this topic by so many calvinist false teachers, and then false demon prophets who who lump OSAS into being a calvinist doctrine when it is not, look God is not the Author of confusion, this "Perseverance of the Saints" doctrine is demonic, and unbiblical. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
the definition of Perseverance = difficult, hard work. now is salvation hard? or easy? well the Bible clearly teaches that it is easy to be saved, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, Romans 10:9-10, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, Ephesians 2:8-9 Acts 16:30-31
Salvation is whosoever believeth in him, whosoever will let him take the water of life freely, we are justified freely by his grace. the will of the Father is to believe on the Son (John 6:40) not "whosoever perseveres until the end will be saved" There are countless examples in the Bible of saved believers in Christ falling into sin, even dying in a state of sin or committing suicide, yet they were saved because they believed in Christ. How one dies has no bearing on whether they were saved or not. And if you think about it, if OSAS were not true then that would mean that our works have something to do with salvation, or staying saved. which is false doctrine and contradicts clear Bible verses. Our works do not justify us before God. I'm going off on a rant here there is much more I can say about this.
Once Saved always saved is not calvinist doctrine, yet many falsely accuse OSAS believers of being calvinist. Calvinism teaches "Perseverance of the saints" which means that those who are truly saved will work until the end. Romans 4:5 debunks that false doctrine. OSAS believes that Whosever believeth in Jesus is saved, and can't be plucked from Jesus or the Father's hand no matter what they do because salvation is not works based but based on faith in Lord Jesus.
I can't tell you the amount of false prophets I have seen teaching that Once Saved Always Saved is some made up doctrine created by John Calvin in the 1600's, when that is a complete and total lie. Calvinists think that you must work until the end to earn or prove you are saved, the Calvinist/reformed camp claim to believe in faith alone yet they then will falsely will say "true faith is never alone" or "we are not saved by works but those who are truly saved will have the works" it is double talk works salvation nonsense, either it is by faith alone or it is not. you can't have both and you can't backload works into salvation. OSAS truly is faith alone, and truly is believing in Christ totally for our salvation, and nothing we do earns it.
OSAS = Biblical (read Gospel of John, Romans, Galatians, Titus 3, pretty much all of Pauls writings) it is everywhere in the NT, and even in the OT Abraham believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. whoever believes in Christ is saved, it's by faith, the Just live by faith, we are Abrahams seed by faith in Jesus, children of God by faith in the Jesus, not of works, Jesus paid it all and died, was buried, bodily rose again, and whosoever believeth in him is saved and has eternal life.
Some people also confuse the Calvinist teaching of "Perseverance of the Saints" as meaning that God preserves the saved until the end which is not what "Perseverance of the Saints" is, but many are confused. it is not Preservation of the Saints, it is perseverance. Big difference. Of Course God is the one who preserves us, that is not what the P in TUILP stands for however, but I talk to and see so many confused and think that is what the P in tulip stands for.
The Amount of people I see deceived on this topic by so many calvinist false teachers, and then false demon prophets who who lump OSAS into being a calvinist doctrine when it is not, look God is not the Author of confusion, this "Perseverance of the Saints" doctrine is demonic, and unbiblical. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
the definition of Perseverance = difficult, hard work. now is salvation hard? or easy? well the Bible clearly teaches that it is easy to be saved, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, Romans 10:9-10, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, Ephesians 2:8-9 Acts 16:30-31
Salvation is whosoever believeth in him, whosoever will let him take the water of life freely, we are justified freely by his grace. the will of the Father is to believe on the Son (John 6:40) not "whosoever perseveres until the end will be saved" There are countless examples in the Bible of saved believers in Christ falling into sin, even dying in a state of sin or committing suicide, yet they were saved because they believed in Christ. How one dies has no bearing on whether they were saved or not. And if you think about it, if OSAS were not true then that would mean that our works have something to do with salvation, or staying saved. which is false doctrine and contradicts clear Bible verses. Our works do not justify us before God. I'm going off on a rant here there is much more I can say about this.
We will be punished in this lifeLet me ask you directly then:
When a person seemed to be a devout Christian for decades and produced the fruits of the Spirit as described in Galations 5:22, and one day they meet someone, divorce their spouse and live the rest of their life in adultery; is this person going to heaven?
If not, were they ever saved?
In short what you are saying is, that Jesus' death on the cross is a free pass for willful sinning. Because we only get punished in this life but will go to heaven anyway. You could murder people and still go to heaven because Jesus paid for it, right?We will be punished in this life
1 Corinthains 11:22 What? have ye not houses to eat and to drink in? or despise ye the church of God, and shame them that have not? What shall I say to you? shall I praise you in this? I praise you not.
1 Corinthians 11:30-32 For this cause many are weak and sickly among you, and many sleep.
For if we would judge ourselves, we should not be judged.
But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.
Willfull pre meditated sin is different Than sinning out of ignorance , Acts 5:1-4
But a certain man named Ananias, with Sapphira his wife, sold a possession,
And kept back part of the price, his wife also being privy to it, and brought a certain part, and laid it at the apostles' feet.
But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
And Ananias hearing these words fell down, and gave up the ghost: and great fear came on all them that heard these things.
the Bible clearly teaches and warns us believers, the saints, about sinning, especially willfully. If you purposely sin that is far worse and you should know and be fearful waiting to be judged by God. we will be chastened, punished, possibly be sick, even killed if we sin willfully and do that, but it absolutely is not talking about losing your salvation and to conflate these things from Hebrews 6, and 10 every time someone talks about grace through faith salvation to try to teach a works based salvation is demonic and causing confusion and all kinds of false doctrine. the Bible is not saying you lose your salvation it is talking about chastening, punishment, and we should fear the Lord. This is not saying that you must be sinlessly perfect or you will lose salvation and to say something like that or quote a verse to imply that you lose salvation is false.
Then you will be punished or killed in this life if you go out and sin like that after being saved. There is a difference between sinning willfully, it is far worse and to say that all sin is the same, or the same punishment is unbiblical. God doesn't let us get away with sins "For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives.” The unsaved are the ones who think that you lose your salvation by sinning when Jesus said I give them eternal life. whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.In short what you are saying is, that Jesus' death on the cross is a free pass for willful sinning. Because we only get punished in this life but will go to heaven anyway. You could murder people and still go to heaven because Jesus paid for it, right?
You can't just drive by quote Hebrews 10 or 6 in a post talking about grace through faith salvation and think that you won't get a rebuke, that is called baiting or gaslighting by taking verses out of context to cause confusion. If you can't understand God chastening his people vs losing your eternal life that Jesus promised and died for then there is something seriously wrong.I have quoted only scripture twice. I haven't added anything or taken anything out. If you don't like what scripture clearly says go talk to Jesus. I'm done.
You only confirmed my point: You could be a mass-murderer and still go to heaven, according to you. Who cares about "punishment in this life", we are talking about heaven.Then you will be punished or killed in this life if you go out and sin like that after being saved. There is a difference between sinning willfully, it is far worse and to say that all sin is the same, or the same punishment is unbiblical. God doesn't let us get away with sins "For whom the Lord loves He chastens, And scourges every son whom He receives.” The unsaved are the ones who think that you lose your salvation by sinning when Jesus said I give them eternal life. whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jesus died once for all, when you sin he doesn't have to come down and die again for you to be forgiven, when we believe on him we are saved, there is nothing you can do that would lose salvation it is eternal life not temporary.You only confirmed my point: You could be a mass-murderer and still go to heaven, according to you. Who cares about "punishment in this life", we are talking about heaven.
According to you, there doesn't have to be any fruit in a Christian's life. No matter what you do, nothing threatens your eternal life in any way, shape or form. You could completely turn your back on God and still go to heaven.
Weird how I can't find any of that in the Bible though.
This is now twice you have repeated the same words in isolation and ignored the words I have emphasized twice.if you think that when the Bible says "received the knowledge of the truth" means that is talking about someone who is saved that Jesus died on the cross for losing their salvation due to willful sin, then that is a wrong interpretation of that scripture, not what the Bible or Jesus teaches at all whatsoever. There is none that doeth good, no, not one. For there is not a just man upon earth, that doeth good, and sinneth not. If we have to be without sin to be saved then nobody is saved, none of the Apostles were saved then because they all still struggled with sin, Paul said he was Carnal sold under sin in Romans 7. The entire NT is warning believers to not fulfill the lusts of the flesh, when we are saved our spirit is born again and is perfect without sin going to heaven, but while on Earth we still have the flesh, the old man, the flesh doesn't automatically become sinlessly perfect at salvation, otherwise why would there be a need to warn saved believers over committing sins, if it were not possible for a saved person to commit sin? Just get saved and then we are automatically sinless with no willful sin or temptations to sin anymore? That is impossible and not what the scripture teaches at all. and if you're saying that we must stop all sin or there is some type of sin that we must give up in order for Jesus to save us, then that is just not accurate false doctrine that saves nobody.
In the Bible there is a condition for forgiveness. You don't receive forgiveness just because Jesus died. The condition is called repentance.Jesus died once for all, when you sin he doesn't have to come down and die again for you to be forgiven, when we believe on him we are saved, there is nothing you can do that would lose salvation it is eternal life not temporary.
Perseverance is not the same as Preservation, seriously you can't be arguing that they are the same thing?"Perseverance of the saints (also called preservation of the saints) is a Christian teaching that asserts that once a person is truly "born of God" or "regenerated" by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, they will continue doing good works and believing in God until the end of their life."
I am confused here. Seems perseverance of the saints has different meanings? Now for me according to what I posted above I 100% agree. OSAS not here to speak for or against. We do know people of God are not all in some "camp" as in "calvinist" right? Saying OSAS is Biblical does not make it so. How can we talk about something we know truly nothing about. So we don't know the heart which (Samual) God only sees. Seen who He writes in His books have we? We man that only sees flesh are going to tell the Great I am what He really meant to say when it comes to salvation? If OSAS was written we would have posted that verse.
I searched again as I always do I find things written about salvation that oddly are not posted. I can see how some say OSAS is biblical and how you can lose your salvation is biblical. Yet as a believer these are two thoughts I never have...any more. When He first found me the enemy comes right away to steal the word. Yet OSAS or lose my salvation I do not have. See we need to be wise like a serpents and harmless as doves. We need to remember the "weak" in the faith and how we can and I mean can cause them to stumble. Very unwise. For me its best to say "I believe this or that and heres why". Then "don't believe me you search you pray you find this out for your self do not take my word for it".
Yes that verse is clearly talking about believers saying they will be punished for willfully sinning, but it is not saying they will lose their salvation or their eternal life, that is the part where disagree.This is now twice you have repeated the same words in isolation and ignored the words I have emphasized twice.
(28) He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
(29) Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?Can you see vs. 29, now?
The punishment is worse than dying without mercy.Yes that verse is clearly talking about believers saying they will be punished for willfully sinning, but it is not saying they will lose their salvation or their eternal life, that is the part where disagree.
Good topic, thanks.Once Saved always saved is not calvinist doctrine...
Not one time in Hebrews 10 does it say you lose your salvation. It is talking about the Lord judging his people and you keep using it to imply that what I said in the OP about OSAS being correct is wrong. but Hebrews 10 doesn't debunk OSAS at all.The punishment is worse than dying without mercy.
Hebrews 10:27-31
(27) but only a certain fearful expectation of judgment and a fury of fire that will consume God’s enemies.
(28) Someone who rejected the law of Moses was put to death without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses.
(29) How much greater punishment do you think that person deserves who has contempt for the Son of God, and profanes the blood of the covenant that made him holy, and insults the Spirit of grace?
(30) For we know the one who said, “Vengeance is mine, I will repay,” and again, “The Lord will judge his people.”
(31) It is a terrifying thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
Not one time in Hebrews 10 does it say you lose your salvation. It is talking about the Lord judging his people and you keep using it to imply that what I said in the OP about OSAS being correct is wrong. but Hebrews 10 doesn't debunk OSAS at all.
Just because you put that as the title doesn't make it true. The idea that you can never make a mistake or sin is false and the idea that you shouldn't ask for forgiveness is false also. No where does Jesus say "once you're saved you're always saved" He actually says "Narrow is the way and few find it" and "sin no more so that nothing worse may happen to you" and forgive your brother who has sinned against you so your Heavenly Father will forgive you". I could keep going but asking for forgiveness is important. Once Shaved always Shaved is not Biblical.Once Saved always saved is not calvinist doctrine, yet many falsely accuse OSAS believers of being calvinist. Calvinism teaches "Perseverance of the saints" which means that those who are truly saved will work until the end. Romans 4:5 debunks that false doctrine. OSAS believes that Whosever believeth in Jesus is saved, and can't be plucked from Jesus or the Father's hand no matter what they do because salvation is not works based but based on faith in Lord Jesus.
I can't tell you the amount of false prophets I have seen teaching that Once Saved Always Saved is some made up doctrine created by John Calvin in the 1600's, when that is a complete and total lie. Calvinists think that you must work until the end to earn or prove you are saved, the Calvinist/reformed camp claim to believe in faith alone yet they then will falsely will say "true faith is never alone" or "we are not saved by works but those who are truly saved will have the works" it is double talk works salvation nonsense, either it is by faith alone or it is not. you can't have both and you can't backload works into salvation. OSAS truly is faith alone, and truly is believing in Christ totally for our salvation, and nothing we do earns it.
OSAS = Biblical (read Gospel of John, Romans, Galatians, Titus 3, pretty much all of Pauls writings) it is everywhere in the NT, and even in the OT Abraham believed in the LORD; and he counted it to him for righteousness. whoever believes in Christ is saved, it's by faith, the Just live by faith, we are Abrahams seed by faith in Jesus, children of God by faith in the Jesus, not of works, Jesus paid it all and died, was buried, bodily rose again, and whosoever believeth in him is saved and has eternal life.
Some people also confuse the Calvinist teaching of "Perseverance of the Saints" as meaning that God preserves the saved until the end which is not what "Perseverance of the Saints" is, but many are confused. it is not Preservation of the Saints, it is perseverance. Big difference. Of Course God is the one who preserves us, that is not what the P in TUILP stands for however, but I talk to and see so many confused and think that is what the P in tulip stands for.
The Amount of people I see deceived on this topic by so many calvinist false teachers, and then false demon prophets who who lump OSAS into being a calvinist doctrine when it is not, look God is not the Author of confusion, this "Perseverance of the Saints" doctrine is demonic, and unbiblical. Romans 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
the definition of Perseverance = difficult, hard work. now is salvation hard? or easy? well the Bible clearly teaches that it is easy to be saved, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, Romans 10:9-10, 1 Corinthians 15:3-4, Ephesians 2:8-9 Acts 16:30-31
Salvation is whosoever believeth in him, whosoever will let him take the water of life freely, we are justified freely by his grace. the will of the Father is to believe on the Son (John 6:40) not "whosoever perseveres until the end will be saved" There are countless examples in the Bible of saved believers in Christ falling into sin, even dying in a state of sin or committing suicide, yet they were saved because they believed in Christ. How one dies has no bearing on whether they were saved or not. And if you think about it, if OSAS were not true then that would mean that our works have something to do with salvation, or staying saved. which is false doctrine and contradicts clear Bible verses. Our works do not justify us before God. I'm going off on a rant here there is much more I can say about this.
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