OSAS does not survive the "sola scriptura" test. Now what?

amariselle · Jun 8, 2018

EmSw said:
Yes, I see all the above, and not one passage from the OT on how they received life. Here, let me help you out.

Actually, I did share a passage from Genesis, which is specifically explained in the NT. Is Genesis not in the OT?

EmSw said:
Proverbs 7:2

EmSw said:
Keep my commands and live, And my law as the apple of your eye.

Ezekiel 18:19
“Yet you say, ‘Why should the son not bear the guilt of the father?’ Because the son has done what is lawful and right, and has kept all My statutes and observed them, he shall surely live.

Ezekiel 33:19
But when the wicked turns from his wickedness and does what is lawful and right, he shall live because of it.

Do you see these OT passages? They state how a man would live. Notice, if kept His commands, do what is lawful and right, and turns from wickedness, he will live. This is how OT saints were saved. Not once is it mentioned they should have faith in the Messiah, nor is anything mentioned of Abraham's righteousness.

You clearly did not read what I shared.

EmSw said:
Surely, you believe, 'he shall surely live' is referring to salvation.

Why would Paul not mention the passages I gave on how OT saints received life? These passages go against any 'faith-alone' belief for life. It's faith, turning from wickedness, and doing what is right and lawful, just as Jesus taught.

Matthew 19:17
So He said to him, “Why do you call Me good? No one is good but One, that is, God. But if you want to enter into life, keep the commandments.”

Isn't is amazing how much Jesus knew from the OT?

Did you not know Abraham was justified by faith and works?

James 2
21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God.
24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

I shared verse after verse with you showing how "the promise", the Gospel, preached to Abraham proceeds the Law. And the Law does not cancel out the promise.

Once you've gone back and actually read my posts, then we can discuss this further.

aiki · Jun 8, 2018

BobRyan said:
1. You just admitted in that quote - that "SEVERED FROM Christ" strengthens the case against OSAS by saying "terms like "separated," or "alienated," or "estranged" don't strengthen a lose-your-salvation reading like "severed" does."

No, as I've already pointed out, my comment here does not agree to a saved-and-lost reading but merely acknowledges that the word "severed" adds strength to such a reading. I don't think "severed" does actually mean "saved-and-lost" for reasons I've already given, but I can see, for one such as yourself who wants the verse to support a "saved-and-lost" view, how the word "severed" is more appealing. Acknowledging this is by no means an agreement to your reading of the verse, however.

BobRyan said:
2. You now claim you are fine with "Severed from Christ" in Gal 5:4 since you believe you have a way to rescue OSAS from this text that "strengthens the case against OSAS"

I don't like the NASB rendering of the verse, but it doesn't confound my understanding of the verse. And it isn't that the word "severed" strengthens the case against OSAS so much as it strengthens your hope that it does.

BobRyan said:
So fine we are back to -- "4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Gal 5:4 - NASB

"We" are not back to the NASB version of the verse, you are.

BobRyan said:
Which you now claim is not going to be seen as saying someone was actually severed from Christ or fallen from grace and thus Christless -- but rather that salvation can now include the Christless wicked who " have been severed from Christ,.. you have fallen from grace." Gal 5:4 - NASB

See, here's that Strawman again. I have said nothing about salvation including a "Christless wicked" person.

BobRyan said:
Hint: Notice that in Gal 5 "no other" bad consequence is mentioned since ""4 You have been severed from Christ... you have fallen from grace." IS "the bad consequence" - the loss-of-salvation , and not some "new way" to say "still-saved-anyway".

No, the "bad consequence" is trying to make one's self justified by obedience to God's commands. As Paul points out, justification via keeping the law requires the keeping of it all. Turning from a justification obtained in Christ, then, leaves one to attempt the impossible and the fruitless which is why Paul warns against it.

BobRyan · Jun 8, 2018

BobRyan said:
And "yet" not one single verse saying that all who are born again will "persevere firm to the end" or that those who "fall from grace are saved anyway".

They are if they are still born-again. If they have lost their salvation "severed from Christ" and "fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4... then they would no longer be saved.

"4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Gal 5:4 - NASB

Matthew 18 "forgiveness revoked"
31 So when his fellow servants saw what had been done, they were very grieved, and came and told their master all that had been done. 32 Then his master, after he had called him, said to him, ‘You wicked servant! I forgave you all that debt because you begged me. 33 Should you not also have had compassion on your fellow servant, just as I had pity on you?’ 34 And his master was angry, and delivered him to the torturers until he should repay all that was due to him.
35 “So My heavenly Father also will do to you if each of you, from his heart, does not forgive his brother his trespasses.”

Rom 11
19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.” 20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear; 21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either. 22 Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off. 23 And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.

Hebrews 6
4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.
7 For the earth which drinks in the rain that often comes upon it, and bears herbs useful for those by whom it is cultivated, receives blessing from God; 8 but if it bears thorns and briers, it is rejected and near to being cursed, whose end is to be burned.

"every branch IN ME" - John 15
2 Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. 3 You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. 4 Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. 5 “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. 6 If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned.

Matthew 13
Parable of the Sower Explained
18 “Therefore hear the parable of the sower: 19 When anyone hears the word of the kingdom, and does not understand it, then the wicked one comes and snatches away what was sown in his heart. This is he who received seed by the wayside. 20 But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the word, immediately he stumbles.

Ezek 18

24 “But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.

25 “Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? 26 When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies. 27 Again, when a wicked man turns away from the wickedness which he committed, and does what is lawful and right, he preserves himself alive. 28 Because he considers and turns away from all the transgressions which he committed, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Notice the sort of "smack down" that Paul has for some of the unruly saints in Corinth --

1 Cor 6
7 Now therefore, it is already an utter failure (defeat) for you that you go to law against one another. Why do you not rather accept wrong? Why do you not rather let yourselves be cheated? 8 No, you yourselves do wrong and cheat, and you do these things to your brethren! 9 Do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor homosexuals, nor sodomites, 10 nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit the kingdom of God

========================

Isaiah 5
What more could have been done to My vineyard
That I have not done in it?
Why then, when I expected it to bring forth good grapes,
Did it bring forth wild grapes?
5 And now, please let Me tell you what I will do to My vineyard:
I will take away its hedge, and it shall be burned;
And break down its wall, and it shall be trampled down.
6 I will lay it waste;

The Calvinist has "The answer" to God's lament where God says "what MORE could I have done.. that I have not done?"

The OSAS model says "you could have turned them into robots...'

jamesbond007 said:
I'm not certain of this view because it's the first time I've heard of it. I've studied some Japanese Buddhism and have attended Buddhist ceremonies and services. One of the things they talk about is the present and consciousness, and through meditation we find there are different and multiple levels of consciousness.

Are you sure you posted on the right thread?

jamesbond007 said:
I
From applying what I've learned there, OSAS is a state of mind. We let Jesus into our hearts and are born again, so to speak. Once, you become one with God, then there is this profound change.

Let's hold that thought for a moment and look at one example from that OP quote above.

You said

One can think of it as a different level of consciousness. Intellectually, we can think that anyone can end up doing wrong with their free will, but it's not like that when you accept Jesus and he is the one who leads you.

In the OP the first example we have --

==================

If they have lost their salvation "severed from Christ" and "fallen from Grace" Gal 5:4... then they would no longer be saved.

"4 You have been severed from Christ, you who are seeking to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace." Gal 5:4 - NASB

===================

Do you think that Gal 5:4 is describing the "Jesus is the one leading" scenario you mentioned??

BobRyan · Jun 8, 2018

aiki said:
No, as I've already pointed out, my comment here does not agree to a saved-and-lost reading

I do not claim that you agree with "saved-then-lost".

I claim you admit to a very specific point when it comes to NASB and Gal 5:4

"you have been severed from Christ...fallen from grace" Gal 5:4

I can see, for one such as yourself who wants the verse to support a "saved-and-lost" view, how the word "severed" is more appealing

I did not say "it is appealing to me".

This is "you" not me.

aiki said: ↑
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.

This rendering of the verse agrees better, it seems to me, with verse 2 than the NASB version that says "you have been severed from Christ." The Greek primary particle, "apo" (ἀπό), certainly does not demand translation with "you have been severed." Other translations use less extreme (and, I think, more appropriate) terms like "separated," or "alienated," or "estranged" that don't strengthen a lose-your-salvation reading like "severed" does.

1. You just admitted in that quote - that "SEVERED FROM Christ" strengthens the case against OSAS by saying "terms like "separated," or "alienated," or "estranged" don't strengthen a lose-your-salvation reading like "severed" does."
2. You now claim you see nothing in "Severed from Christ" in Gal 5:4 that contradicts your preference for that verse.

I don't like the NASB rendering of the verse,

Even though you manage to think of it as not contradicting your view in the least??

And it isn't that the word "severed" strengthens the case against OSAS so much as it strengthens your hope that it does.

Did you imagine to yourself you were "speaking for me" ???

No, the "bad consequence" is trying to make one's self justified by obedience to God's commands.

That is not the "consequence" in the text -- in the text the cause/action is the attempt to be saved by works... the consequence is "you have been severed from Christ...fallen from grace" Gal 5:4

GodsGrace101 · Jun 8, 2018

BobRyan said:
That is not true.

Notice 1 Cor 7:19 "19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but what matters is the keeping of the commandments of God."

Clearly the ceremonial law was being discounted and the moral law upheld.

Eph 6:2 the 5th commandment "is the first commandment with a promise" in that unit of Law still binding on the saints in the NT. IT is not the first commandment with a promise in the OT.

Hebrews 7 and 10 say the ceremonial laws and the sacrificial system ended - but those texts do not say it is ok for Christians to "take God's name in vain"

Right.
The civil and ceremonial laws were abolished.
The Moral Law will NEVER be abolished since God IS morality.

This is also why there is a question as to the 4th commandment about keeping the Sabbath holy.

Is it a ceremonial law that has been abolished?
Or is it a moral commandment since it's included in the 10 commandments?
Rhetorical questions --- all the moral law must be kept as has been proven in verse after verse.

BobRyan · Jun 8, 2018

Good questions asked there GG101.

Notice that in Isaiah 66:23 God does not say "in the New Earth animal sacrifice every week and every month".

But what He does say is that in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

So then - something known to the OT saints would be going on for all eternity after the cross for all mankind.

GodsGrace101 · Jun 8, 2018

BobRyan said:
Good questions asked there GG101.

Notice that in Isaiah 66:23 God does not say "in the New Earth animal sacrifice every week and every month".

But what He does say is that in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

So then - something known to the OT saints would be going on for all eternity after the cross for all mankind.

Please explain better.
This reminds me of when Jesus told the samaritan woman that no more will we worship in a temple in Jerusalem but we will worship in spirit and in truth., the temple will be inside us.
John 4

Major1 · Jun 8, 2018

BobRyan said:
Just like the New Covenant ... Jer 31:31-33 ... directed specifically to the same.

Are you not a New Covenant Christian.???

Hint: Romans 2:13

While it is true that the Law does not save -- it is not true that wickedness and rebellion is the path to heaven according to Rom 2:5-13

You just said "It does not matter what Paul said about Sunday, the LAW said Sabbath"

What are you saying about Paul in that statement???

Did Paul ever say "Sunday is the Lord's Day"??
Did Paul ever say "we meet every Sunday (week-day-1) to worship and celebrate the resurrection of Christ instead of keeping the Sabbath"???

What do you mean by "It does not matter what Paul said about Sunday"??

It was said as a comparison in that if anyone, even a New Covent Christian does not obey the Sabbath he is breaking the Commandments of God.

Since this discussion is based on having to keep the commandments to stay saved, NO Christian then would be able to be saved as we all worship on Sunday which is NOT the Sabbath.

Major1 · Jun 8, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
You don't have to do anything you don't want to. That's the way it is in churches these days. Take what you like, leave what you don't like.

We are no longer under the law, but we must still keep the commandments of God. Sorry if I didn't repeat the word "commandments" enough. I mean the 10 commandments and all that Jesus commanded us to do... For instance,
Mathew 5:3-10
Mathew 25:34-46

Jesus said it, not me. It' in the bible so it must be biblical.

And as far as keeping the commandments to stay saved---yes, I do believe this is also biblical and repeated by Jesus.

Would you care to explain the verses I posted?
They were:

Mathew 7:23
Mathew 7:24
John 14:15
James 1:22

As far as the ones you posted, I agree with them because, as you know very well, they all have to do with being under the law, and we are under grace. Being under grace does not nullify the commandments Jesus left us with.

Jesus did not abolish the law...
Mathew 5:17-20

He made it more difficult...
Mathew 5:27-28
Mathew 5:21-22

The difference between the Mosaic Covenant and the New Covenant is not that the commandments have been abolished.
God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow --- the difference is that with the New Covenant we are given the Holy Spirit to help us keep them.

I said THE COMMANDMENTS, NOT The Law.

Actually we only have two.

EmSw · Jun 8, 2018

amariselle said:
Actually, I did share a passage from Genesis, which is specifically explained in the NT. Is Genesis not in the OT?

Can't any OSAS person actually read what I say? I didn't ask for any reference to the OT, nor any explanation from the NT concerning the OT. I have asked for specific OT passages which state how OT saints received life.

OSAS'ers have stated both the OT and NT saints are saved the same way. If that is the case, then we can look to see how OT saints were saved, and know it's the same for NT saints. That is why I have asked for specific OT verses which state how OT saints received life.

I gave you three passages which have shown how OT saints received life, and you have blown them off. Why are those three passages not important to you? Why have you not commented on them? Is it because you will find salvation different than what most people believe today.

amariselle said:
Once you've gone back and actually read my posts, then we can discuss this further.

Is the request for OT passages concerning life the reason you are quitting our discussion? If you did not like the passages I gave you concerning life in Ezekiel, then sure aren't going to like this one -

Ezekiel 18:24
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

If OT and NT saint are saved in the same way, then in the same way will they die if they turn away from their righteousness and commit iniquity and abominations.

amariselle · Jun 8, 2018

EmSw said:
Can't any OSAS person actually read what I say? I didn't ask for any reference to the OT, nor any explanation from the NT concerning the OT. I have asked for specific OT passages which state how OT saints received life.

OSAS'ers have stated both the OT and NT saints are saved the same way. If that is the case, then we can look to see how OT saints were saved, and know it's the same for NT saints. That is why I have asked for specific OT verses which state how OT saints received life.

I gave you three passages which have shown how OT saints received life, and you have blown them off. Why are those three passages not important to you? Why have you not commented on them? Is it because you will find salvation different than what most people believe today.

Is the request for OT passages concerning life the reason you are quitting our discussion? If you did not like the passages I gave you concerning life in Ezekiel, then sure aren't going to like this one -

Ezekiel 18:24
But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

If OT and NT saint are saved in the same way, then in the same way will they die if they turn away from their righteousness and commit iniquity and abominations.

Honestly, I see no need to address your posts, if you have first chosen to disregard the Scriptures in the previous post I shared. How could we possibly have an honest discussion in that case?

So, I’ll leave you with this:

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. - John 5:37-40

EmSw · Jun 8, 2018

amariselle said:
Honestly, I see no need to address your posts, if you have first chosen to disregard the Scriptures in the previous post I shared. How could we possibly have an honest discussion in that case?

So, I’ll leave you with this:

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. - John 5:37-40

Excellent verses! But hardly anyone will search the scriptures any more. They don't want to hear about the verses I gave from Ezekiel. Since Jesus is the Word Himself, the Word from Ezekiel is Jesus Himself. But people only want the part of 'Jesus' that makes them comfortable. They don't want to be bothered with anything they disagree with.

And no amariselle, you don't need to address my posts. If they make you uncomfortable, then by all means, keep far away from them. You don't even have to believe what God said in Ezekiel, much less turn from your wickedness and do what is lawful and right that you may live. No sir, you can choose what you desire and make salvation the way which pleases you.

But one thing you must keep in mind, it is His Word which will judge you and me. And we are not judged according to our beliefs, but rather, our works and deeds. Look it up, search the scriptures and you will not find any judgment concerning a man's beliefs; it is always his actions, deeds, and works.

BobRyan · Jun 8, 2018

Good questions asked there GG101.

Notice that in Isaiah 66:23 God does not say "in the New Earth animal sacrifice every week and every month".

But what He does say is that in the New Earth "from Sabbath to Sabbath shall all mankind come before Me to worship"

So then - something known to the OT saints would be going on for all eternity after the cross for all mankind.

GodsGrace101 said:
Please explain better.
This reminds me of when Jesus told the samaritan woman that no more will we worship in a temple in Jerusalem but we will worship in spirit and in truth., the temple will be inside us.
John 4

If animal sacrifices were really going to continue for all eternity then Isaiah 66 could well have said "from week to week shall all mankind come before me to offer animal sacrifices in the New Earth".

I was going along with the discussion about the Bible making a distinction between ceremonial vs moral law of God.

BobRyan · Jun 8, 2018

Major1 said:
FIRST of all, the commandments of Moses were given to the People who came out of Egypt which was the nation of Israel. Are you one of the Jews of the nation of Israel????

Just like the New Covenant ... Jer 31:31-33 ... directed specifically to the same.

Are you not a New Covenant Christian.???

Major1 said:
SECOND, the Law was never given in order to save anyone. So then, how can keeping them then keep you saved IF they were never given for salvation to begin with?

Hint: Romans 2:13

While it is true that the Law does not save -- it is not true that wickedness and rebellion is the path to heaven according to Rom 2:5-13

Major1 said:
THIRD, just as an example. Do you keep the Sabbath?
Exodus 20:8...……
"Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates".

The Sabbath is Saturday. Do you do that? It does not matter what Paul said about Sunday, the LAW said Sabbath and if we have to keep the Law to be saved then you must keep the Sabbath.

You just said "It does not matter what Paul said about Sunday, the LAW said Sabbath"

What are you saying about Paul in that statement???

Did Paul ever say "Sunday is the Lord's Day"??
Did Paul ever say "we meet every Sunday (week-day-1) to worship and celebrate the resurrection of Christ instead of keeping the Sabbath"???

What do you mean by "It does not matter what Paul said about Sunday"??

Major1 said:
It was said as a comparison in that if anyone, even a New Covent Christian does not obey the Sabbath he is breaking the Commandments of God.

Under the "New Covenant" of Jeremiah 31:31-33 "The Law of God is written on the heart and mind" and that covenant is unchanged in the NT as we see in Hebrews 8:6-12.

That moral law of God known to Jeremiah and his readers -- written on the heart.

And as you point out - that would have included the Ten Commandments.

Major1 said:
Since this discussion is based on having to keep the commandments to stay saved, NO Christian then would be able to be saved as we all worship on Sunday which is NOT the Sabbath.

I think we would both agree that "taking God's name in vain" Ex 20:7 is still a sin. Even for Christians... even for someone who has that Law "written on the heart".

your argument "appears to be" that Christians should not be held to that kind of standard - no matter that it is written on the heart.

1 Cor 6 - Paul says "do not be deceived" when he writes to the church of Corinth. Perhaps they were thinking they could "take God's name in vain all the way to the kingdom". So then Paul lists a bunch of bad things and says 'that sort of person is not going to heaven'.

Was Paul's doctrine ok?

BTW that Sabbath argument would probably work with a lot of Christians - but wont work with me. Check out my Profile.

Blood Bought 1953 · Jun 8, 2018

EmSw said:
Excellent verses! But hardly anyone will search the scriptures any more. They don't want to hear about the verses I gave from Ezekiel. Since Jesus is the Word Himself, the Word from Ezekiel is Jesus Himself. But people only want the part of 'Jesus' that makes them comfortable. They don't want to be bothered with anything they disagree with.

And no amariselle, you don't need to address my posts. If they make you uncomfortable, then by all means, keep far away from them. You don't even have to believe what God said in Ezekiel, much less turn from your wickedness and do what is lawful and right that you may live. No sir, you can choose what you desire and make salvation the way which pleases you.

But one thing you must keep in mind, it is His Word which will judge you and me. And we are not judged according to our beliefs, but rather, our works and deeds. Look it up, search the scriptures and you will not find any judgment concerning a man's beliefs; it is always his actions, deeds, and works.

But one thing you must keep in mind, it is His Word which will judge you and me. And we are not judged according to our beliefs, but rather, our works and deeds. Look it up, search the scriptures and you will not find any judgment concerning a man's beliefs; it is always his actions, deed

Here is what you will be judged by. Jesus said so through
His spokesman, Paul.......rom2:16....”.God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY GOSPEL” God ain’t gonna ask about OSAS or NOSAS.....He will ask what you did with His Gospel, did you believe in it and it alone for your salvation or did you add to it with works.Paul said if you add to his simple gospel you are “ accursed”” God will probably wanna talk about that.You would be wise to settle that question ASAP.

EmSw · Jun 8, 2018

amariselle said:
Honestly, I see no need to address your posts, if you have first chosen to disregard the Scriptures in the previous post I shared. How could we possibly have an honest discussion in that case?

So, I’ll leave you with this:

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. - John 5:37-40

amariselle, before you go, I want you to see one last thing Jesus said about eternal life.

Luke 10
25 And, behold, a certain lawyer stood up, and tempted him, saying, Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
26 He said unto him, What is written in the law? how readest thou?
27 And he answering said, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself.
28 And he said unto him, Thou hast answered right: this do, and thou shalt live.

Please notice this certain lawyer asked, 'what shall I do to inherit eternal life?' That is the question Jesus answered. Jesus responded with what? A question about the law. Do you see that?

WHAT IS WRITTEN IN THE LAW?, Jesus asked the lawyer. So, right there Jesus said the answer to eternal life is written in the law. The law wasn't a minister of death, but rather, a minister of life.

But wait! There's more! After the lawyer said, 'Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy strength, and with all thy mind; and thy neighbour as thyself', what did Jesus say? This is very important for everyone.

THOU HAST ANSWERED RIGHT!!! The lawyer gave the right answer! What was written in the law answered the lawyer's original question. No faith was mentioned, no cross was mentioned, no blood was mentioned, only loving God and loving our neighbor.

Is your answer to the lawyer's question the same as the answer Jesus gave? Well, is it?

And to top it off, Jesus said, 'DO THIS AND THOU SHALT LIVE!!!' Do what you might ask. Love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, strength, and mind; and love your neighbor as yourself. Plain and simple. Two things we are to do to inherit eternal life. Most everybody wants to add to this.

So, if I ask you what I should do to inherit eternal life, what would your answer be?

One more thing before you go.

John 12
49 For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
50 And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.

Do you see what Jesus said? The Father gave Jesus a commandment, what He should say and what He should speak.

And this commandment the Father gave Jesus IS EVERLASTING LIFE! Amazing what one will find if he only seeks and believes.

EmSw · Jun 8, 2018

Blood Bought 1953 said:
But one thing you must keep in mind, it is His Word which will judge you and me. And we are not judged according to our beliefs, but rather, our works and deeds. Look it up, search the scriptures and you will not find any judgment concerning a man's beliefs; it is always his actions, deed

Here is what you will be judged by. Jesus said so through
His spokesman, Paul.......rom2:16....”.God will judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to MY GOSPEL” God ain’t gonna ask about OSAS or NOSAS.....He will ask what you did with His Gospel, did you believe in it and it alone for your salvation or did you add to it with works.Paul said if you add to his simple gospel you are “ accursed”” God will probably wanna talk about that.You would be wise to settle that question ASAP.

Let's see how men are judged.

1 Kings 8:39
Then hear thou in heaven thy dwelling place, and forgive, and do, and give to every man according to his ways, whose heart thou knowest; (for thou, even thou only, knowest the hearts of all the children of men)

Job 34:11
For the work of a man shall he render unto him, and cause every man to find according to his ways.

Psalm 28:4
Give them according to their deeds, and according to the wickedness of their endeavours: give them after the work of their hands; render to them their desert.

Isaiah 59:18
According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence.

Proverbs 24:12
If thou sayest, Behold, we knew it not; doth not he that pondereth the heart consider it? and he that keepeth thy soul, doth not he know it? and shall not he render to every man according to his works?

Jeremiah 17:10
I the Lord search the heart, I try the reins, even to give every man according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings.

Jeremiah 32:19
Great in counsel, and mighty in work: for thine eyes are open upon all the ways of the sons of men: to give every one according to his ways, and according to the fruit of his doings:

Ezekiel 7:3
Now is the end come upon thee, and I will send mine anger upon thee, and will judge thee according to thy ways, and will recompense upon thee all thine abominations.

Ezekiel 7:9
And mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity: I will recompense thee according to thy ways and thine abominations that are in the midst of thee; and ye shall know that I am the Lord that smiteth.

Ezekiel 18:30
Therefore I will judge you, O house of Israel, every one according to his ways, saith the Lord God. Repent, and turn yourselves from all your transgressions; so iniquity shall not be your ruin.

Ezekiel 24:14
I the Lord have spoken it: it shall come to pass, and I will do it; I will not go back, neither will I spare, neither will I repent; according to thy ways, and according to thy doings, shall they judge thee, saith the Lord God.

Hosea 12:2
The Lord hath also a controversy with Judah, and will punish Jacob according to his ways; according to his doings will he recompense him.

Zechariah 1:6
But my words and my statutes, which I commanded my servants the prophets, did they not take hold of your fathers? and they returned and said, Like as the Lord of hosts thought to do unto us, according to our ways, and according to our doings, so hath he dealt with us.

Jeremiah 25:14
For many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of them also: and I will recompense them according to their deeds, and according to the works of their own hands.

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.

Romans 2:6
Who will render to every man according to his deeds: (if you want the rest, I will gladly provide it upon request).

Revelation 2:23
And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

Revelation 20:12
And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

How many verses do you need to convince you that it is according to man's deeds, works, actions, and doings? Even Paul said God will render to EVERY man according to his deeds. Why would I be wise to consult about Paul's gospel? I have so many passages to believe about my deeds, actions, and works.

EmSw · Jun 8, 2018

amariselle said:
Honestly, I see no need to address your posts, if you have first chosen to disregard the Scriptures in the previous post I shared. How could we possibly have an honest discussion in that case?

So, I’ll leave you with this:

37 And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
38 And ye have not his word abiding in you: for whom he hath sent, him ye believe not.
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.
40 And ye will not come to me, that ye might have life. - John 5:37-40

So, did Ezekiel 18:24 do you in? Is that passage of truth too much for you to handle?

amariselle · Jun 8, 2018

EmSw said:
So, did Ezekiel 18:24 do you in? Is that passage of truth too much for you to handle?

Scripture is not “too much to handle.” I continue to grow in His grace, through the “milk” of the word, every day.

I am not an expert, I am still learning. But, this I know, God does not contradict Himself. He is faithful to all of His promises and all His perfect plans always come to pass.

Scripture is clear, salvation is by grace, through faith and not of works. It is the gift of God, lest any man should boast.

Jesus, by Himself purged all of our sin, completely, totally and forever. He has told us that He is the Way, the Truth and the Life. And that all who believe will be saved. And you know what? I believe Him.

If you or anyone else wants to try to earn eternal life on your own “good works” and your own merit, that is your choice.

As for me? I have nothing to offer God of my own self that would be worth Him saving me. I know that apart from Christ I have nothing and no hope of salvation.

Have a good weekend.

jamesbond007 · Jun 8, 2018

GodsGrace101 said:
It's not about doing wrong.
We all do wrong although I'm certain it will be "less wrongs and less times done". God's spirit always helps us.

But does our free will allow us to walk away from God if we so want to? No matter how unlikely it may be...is it possible?
Does the N.T. speak to this?

For example:
1 Corinthians 15:2
Hebrews 3:14

What other meaning could these verses possibly have??

I don't have the answer to that. This may be wrong, but I still, at times, look to our original parents and ask if I had what they had and were in their shoes, how long would I have lasted? For some reason, I think they lasted less than a week before they fell. This may sound narcissistic, but would think I'd last around two years before being tricked by Satan or maybe avoid disobeying God forever, i.e. hold firm to his Word.

IDK. You ask a good question. Does it mean that if we sin big enough that we lose contact with God? A&E did the one thing to lose contact with God. You are stating the one thing that we can do to lose contact with God. I think if we let Jesus into our hearts, then we can stand firm against any onslaught.

OSAS does not survive the "sola scriptura" test. Now what?

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