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Ron Gurley

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Q: Cannot one who's once tasted of the "heavenly gift" still "fall away"?

A: A spirit who has been made to "know" the sower and the seed may fail to accept the gift of salvation and "sprout"/be saved.

Luke 8 (NASB)...seed is the "word of God / "gospel
5 “The sower went out to sow his seed; and as he sowed,
A. some fell beside the road, and it was trampled under foot and the birds of the air ate it up.
B. 6 Other seed fell on rocky soil, and as soon as it grew up, it withered away, because it had no moisture.
C. 7 Other seed fell among the thorns; and the thorns grew up with it and choked it out.

B."Apostasy" is a forgivable sin.

1 Timothy 4 [ Apostasy ]
But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will "fall away from the faith"
, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons, by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,

Hosea 14:4
I will heal their apostasy, I will love them freely, For My anger has turned away from them.

2 Thessalonians 2:3
Let no one in any way deceive you, for it (Second Coming) will not come unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness (anti-christ) is revealed, the son of destruction,

Matthew 24 (NASB)...JESUS' prophecy of the "end times"
“Then they will deliver you to TRIBULATION, and will kill you, and you will be hated by all nations because of My name.
10 At that time many will FALL AWAY and will betray one another and hate one another.
11 Many false prophets will arise and will mislead many.
12 Because lawlessness is increased, most people’s love will grow cold.
13 But the one who endures to the end (OF TRIBULATION) , he will be saved (FROM DEATH OR WORSE!).
14 This "gospel of the kingdom" shall be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all the nations,
and then the end (OF TRIBULATIONS) will come.

will fall away...GREEK 4624...skandalizō...
1.to put a stumbling block or impediment in the way, upon which another may trip and fall, metaph. to offend
1.to entice to sin
2.to cause a person to begin to distrust and desert one whom he ought to trust and obey
 
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justbyfaith

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@Jason0047, Do you have an answer for this one?
 
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justbyfaith

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Love never fails...on Irresistible Grace.

1 Corinthians 13:8-a says that "Charity never faileth." or, "Love never fails." Considering that God is love (1 John 4:8; 1 John 4:16), it follows that God cannot fail to redeem the ones He loves. Revelation 19:6 tells us that God is Omnipotent.

This means either Universalism or Limited Atonement.

But one might ask, Does not God love everyone? For the answer, one only need to look at such scriptures as Romans 9:13; Romans 9:25; Hosea 9:15; Psalms 5:5-6; Psalms 7:11; and others. Now Hosea 9:15 might even teach us that eternal security is not a given even if God loves us and His love cannot fail; it remains that for some the quality and quantity of His love is everlasting (Jeremiah 31:3). So for them His love cannot fail to both save and keep them. However for some, who do not continue in His goodness, it is clear that they cannot presume that they are eternally secure and can never be cut off: in fact God promises to cut off those who don't continue in His goodness (Romans 11:20-22). Therefore in my own theology I strike a balance between eternal security and its opposite. I have received a personal promise from the Lord that He has loved me with an everlasting love and will never leave me nor forsake me...if any listener desires to also receive such a promise let him heed Jeremiah 29:13 and seek after the Lord and His righteousness with all their heart.
 
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ClementofA

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Did Peter "lose" his standing with Christ after denying Christ three times?

Matt.10:33

New American Standard Bible
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

New International Version
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in His Father's glory with the holy angels."

Luke 9:26
If anyone is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Luke 12:9
But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

2 Timothy 2:12
if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us;

1 John 2:23 Whoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: he that acknowledges …
 
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ClementofA

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John 10:28-29 specifically says "no one will SNATCH them out of my hand".

This passage doesn't deny the possibility that they can CRAWL or JUMP out of his hand by their own free will choice. For someone else to "snatch" them out of his hand is one thing. For them to willfully choose to LEAVE his hand is something else entirely.

The "snatching" in John 10:28-29 only addresses what OTHERS can do to remove one from Christ, not what that one can HIMSELF do to remove himself from Christ. Therefore it fails as a "proof text" for OSAS.

In the immediate context (v.25-27) & elsewhere in the greater context of John's gospel & Scripture, aionion life & not perishing for the aion is dependent on believing. The context does not address the question of whether or not one who believes will always persevere in belief or if they can shipwreck their faith & lose it. So the reference to being given aionion life & not persishing for the aion (v.28) does not establish a "proof text" for OSAS either.

Jn.10:28 And I am giving them life eonian, and they should by no means be perishing for the eon, and no one shall be snatching them out of My hand. (CLV)

Moreover, in the context of Jn.10:25-29, the believers being spoken of are not those who believe "for a while" (LK.8:13) or shipwreck their faith (1 Tim.1:19), but who (1) hear His voice (2) are known by Him & (3) follow Him.

Holding faith, and a good conscience; which some having put away concerning faith have made shipwreck: (1 Tim.1:19)

They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away. (Lk.8:13)
 
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ClementofA

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I would suggest, and I think that the Bible teaches, that if one denies Christ then they never truly accepted him to begin with.

Peter denied the Lord three times. Yet before that the Father revealed to him Jesus as the Christ & the Son of the living God (Mt.16).

Matt.10:33

New American Standard Bible
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

New International Version
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in His Father's glory with the holy angels."

Luke 9:26
If anyone is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

Luke 12:9
But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

2 Timothy 2:12
if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us;

1 John 2:23 Whoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: he that acknowledges …
 
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Tree of Life

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Peter denied the Lord three times. Yet before that the Father revealed to him Jesus as the Christ & the Son of the living God (Mt.16).

The kind of denial that I’m talking about is an ultimate denial. Peter’s denial was not ultimate because he repented. Indeed, he immediately regretted his denial, going outside Caiaphas’ chambers to weep. I would go as far as to say that Peter’s denial was not a genuine denial at all. Peter really did know Jesus and believed in Jesus. Peter was lying when he denied Jesus. A legitimate denial of Jesus is when one truthfully denies him.
 
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ClementofA

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Peter's type of denial is recorded here:

Matt.10:33

New American Standard Bible
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven.

New International Version
But whoever disowns me before others, I will disown before my Father in heaven.

Luke 12:9
But whoever denies Me before men will be denied before the angels of God.

Compare:

Mark 8:38
For whoever is ashamed of Me and My words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will also be ashamed of him when He comes in His Father's glory with the holy angels."

Luke 9:26
If anyone is ashamed of Me and My words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when He comes in His glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

2 Timothy 2:12
if we endure, we will also reign with Him; if we deny Him, He will also deny us;

1 John 2:23 Whoever denies the Son, the same has not the Father: he that acknowledges

But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death. (Rev.21:8)
 
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Tree of Life

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Are you suggesting that Peter is not saved?
 
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redleghunter

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So where does the apostle Peter stand?
 
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ClementofA

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