Ortholic Relations

[Br. Xavier]

I've been looking deeply into the Orthodox Church lately, and I need help with the issue of Papal Authority. I'm assuming a large part of this rests on how the East dealt with the west Authoritatively, but I can't find any info on the matter. So I guess I'm kind of wondering is, on what grounds do the Orthodox deny papal authority?

 

[Christos Anesti]

You might want to read the book "The Primacy of Peter: Essays in Ecclesiology and the Early Church" by Father John Meyendorff. It does a good job explaining an Orthodox understanding of the role of the Pope of Rome.

 

[choirfiend]

So I guess I'm kind of wondering is, on what grounds do the Orthodox deny papal authority?

I'm feeling facetious, so bear with me.

Scriptural, historical, and theological factual grounds.

 

[MariaRegina]

Check St. Justin's subforum in TAW and the Apostolic Forum.

There are interesting threads there. Several TAWers are converts from Catholicism. In fact, Papal infallibility and Papal supremacy (both defined in 1870) were the first two pillars that fell in my search of Orthodoxy.

Edit: Please excuse my manners.

A big welcome to TAW. God grant you many years.

 

[buzuxi02]

The bishop of Rome in the undivided church had priveleges granted to him by various councils and canons of the church. These we recognize. Papal supremacy as defined by the modern papacy we do not recognize. Since no canon of the church gives the bishop of Rome a supremacy of jurisdiction and no council or canon recognizes in his person infallibility, we reject these.

 

[Br. Xavier]

Check St. Justin's subforum in TAW and the Apostolic Forum.

There are interesting threads there. Several TAWers are converts from Catholicism. In fact, Papal infallibility and Papal supremacy (both defined in 1870) were the first two pillars that fell in my search of Orthodoxy.

Honestly, I believe Supremacy is my last.

 

[MariaRegina]

Re: Papal Supremacy and Papal Infallibility, look at the posts in this thread starting here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t7371270-6/#post53731342

 

[Coralie]

This podcast may help you, it's not a debating thing, just an outline of Orthodox objections to papal supremacy (and other things):

Orthodox And Roman Catholic Differences - Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy - Ancient Faith Radio

 

[Br. Xavier]

You might want to read the book "The Primacy of Peter: Essays in Ecclesiology and the Early Church" by Father John Meyendorff. He does a good job explaining an Orthodox understanding of the role of the Pope of Rome.

It seems like a good read. If my library doesn't have it, I'm going to purchase this.

Check St. Justin's subforum in TAW and the Apostolic Forum.

There are interesting threads there. Several TAWers are converts from Catholicism. In fact, Papal infallibility and Papal supremacy (both defined in 1870) were the first two pillars that fell in my search of Orthodoxy.

There were a few good reads in there just glancing through. Thanks, all.

This podcast may help you, it's not a debating thing, just an outline of Orthodox objections to papal supremacy (and other things):

Orthodox And Roman Catholic Differences - Orthodoxy and Heterodoxy - Ancient Faith Radio

I like listening to their pod casts. 'Looking forward to hearing this.

 

[Apophatic80]

Thank you for being nice and civil, Brother Xavier!

 

[E.C.]

Welcome to TAW!

I've been looking deeply into the Orthodox Church lately, and I need help with the issue of Papal Authority. I'm assuming a large part of this rests on how the East dealt with the west Authoritatively, but I can't find any info on the matter. So I guess I'm kind of wondering is, on what grounds do the Orthodox deny papal authority?

Basically the grounds of supremacy and infallibility never being in place.

The Bishops of Rome and Constantinople were both granted a bit of honor and distinction from the Ecumenical Councils, yet even then all bishops still had authority within their own territory.

Rome was allowed a bit of honor for three reasons. 1) It was the capital of the Roman Empire 2) it was the place were Sts. Peter and Paul were martyred and 3) the episcopal office of the Bishop of Rome remained relatively free of heresy for the first few hundred years since Christ.

Constantinople was later granted the same level of honor because it is the New Rome.

 

[MariaRegina]

It has been a joy corresponding with you Brother Xavier.

If you have any more questions, just ask.

 

[Br. Xavier]

It has been a joy corresponding with you Brother Xavier.

If you have any more questions, just ask.

Thank you, Maria, and all others here who have helped me.

Everything historically is pointing to Orthodoxy. Now, I suppose, I'll let God handle the issue.

 

[MariaRegina]

Thank you, Maria, and all others here who have helped me.

Everything historically is pointing to Orthodoxy. Now, I suppose, I'll let God handle the issue.

And you have changed your icon. My prayers for you too.
Are you in contact with an Orthodox Priest?

 

[Apophatic80]

Good times!

 

[Br. Xavier]

And you have changed your icon. My prayers for you too.
Are you in contact with an Orthodox Priest?

St. Alexis Toth's Orthodox parish (now a cathedral) is a town over from mine, so I figured he was as good a saint as any to ask prayers of guidance from (and he converted from Catholicism). Thank you. I have yet to contact one, but there are two Orthodox parishes in my area, so I will be very soon.

 

[Apophatic80]

St. Alexis Toth's Orthodox parish (now a cathedral) is a town over from mine, so I figured he was as good a saint as any to ask prayers of guidance from (and he converted from Catholicism). Thank you. I have yet to contact one, but there are two Orthodox parishes in my area, so I will be very soon.

This was helpful for me during my first visit:


http://www.antiochian.org/node/16963

 

[ArmyMatt]

Thank you, Maria, and all others here who have helped me.

Everything historically is pointing to Orthodoxy. Now, I suppose, I'll let God handle the issue.

glory to Jesus Christ! keep us posted on your journey, and St Alexis is a good saint to pray to for discernment in America when converting.

 

[Apophatic80]

This is exciting! I've always had a strong attraction to the Tridentine mass that the Catholic church has historically used. I'm totally nonplussed as to why Paul VI decided it would be a good idea to change the mass. Why fix what isn't broken, eh? If you like an older more refined worship you're going to love Orthodoxy. We use the Liturgy of St. John Chrysosstom (and St. Basil the Great seasonally) with incense and ad orientam posture for the priest. The Divine Liturgy is always accompanied with singing as well! It's unchanged, and it won't change either. That's the beauty of this collection of churches. God bless you!

 

[E.C.]

St. Alexis Toth's Orthodox parish (now a cathedral) is a town over from mine, so I figured he was as good a saint as any to ask prayers of guidance from (and he converted from Catholicism)

That is so cool!

I am soooo jealous! I've always wanted to venerate his relics. Ah maybe one day.