Ortholic Relations

[Br. Xavier]

My discernment process is far from complete, and one thing that keeps crossing my mind is the scary lack of "involvement" in to today's world by the Orthodox Church, whereas the Catholic Church is extremely involved. I know numbers mean nothing, but I find it hard to accept that the Catholic Church would have so many people behind it if it weren't true. Any help?

 

[MariaRegina]

The Russian and Greek Patriarchs are very involved and speak out publicly.

You must realize that the Orthodox Church has been hurt by communism. Many Orthodox from Russia have not been raised in the Orthodox Church and have no idea. On the other hand, we can learn much from those who suffered under communism.

Have you ever read Candles Behind the Wall? This book is available through Amazon.com and other booksellers (it is out of print but still available). I purchased several copies and gave them away. Incredible read. Without the unseen Christian involvement and outreach during the Soviet times, the wall would not have been breached.


We do need more saints today. Look at the missionary work St. Alexios of Toth did. Read the lives of St. Nectarios of Aegina and St. John of San Francisco. While St. Nectarios lived a quiet life, he was very scholarly and wrote many books to help us. If only they could be translated into English. St. John of San Francisco started orphanages and schools to help the poor.

Maybe you can be involved in working with FOCUS. Father Justin is doing a great work among the homeless and the poor in the USA.

 

[choirfiend]

Well, we're second biggest. And we've been dealing with muslims and atheist communists in this century, with millions and millions killed in the 20th century. We are involved, but we're nowhere near as in the American media's eye as the RCC is. If you lived in Russia, you'd probably have a different sense of how involved the Church was in the world.

That being said, keep praying and trust in God! It will be ok.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Well, we're second biggest. And we've been dealing with muslims and atheist communists in this century, with millions and millions killed in the 20th century. We are involved, but we're nowhere near as in the American media's eye as the RCC is. If you lived in Russia, you'd probably have a different sense of how involved the Church was in the world.

That being said, keep praying and trust in God! It will be ok.

what she said. if you were to check out a traditionally Orthodox country, I am sure it would look much different.

 

[MariaRegina]

Well, we're second biggest. And we've been dealing with muslims and atheist communists in this century, with millions and millions killed in the 20th century. We are involved, but we're nowhere near as in the American media's eye as the RCC is. If you lived in Russia, you'd probably have a different sense of how involved the Church was in the world.

That being said, keep praying and trust in God! It will be ok.

The media likes to support new development. Sure, the Catholic Church has a New Code of Canon Law and a New Order Mass with constant revisions. That makes news. However, are new developments always good? Of course not. We must pray that the Holy Spirit is able to bring the Catholic Church full circle back to the unchanging Apostolic Faith. Is Benedict XVI working in that direction? I hope so. We must pray.

The Orthodox Church is considered to be old-fashioned and unchanging. The media consider it "old news" and do not like to report on dinosaurs.

Since the One Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, the Holy Orthodox Church, is unchanging, it is not very popular nor trendy.

 

[ThePilgrim]

That is so cool!

I am soooo jealous! I've always wanted to venerate his relics. Ah maybe one day.

Then you'll need to come to St. Tikhon's. We have his whole body

 

[MariaRegina]

what she said. if you were to check out a traditionally Orthodox country, I am sure it would look much different.

I agree. I was just talking with some of my fellow parishioners yesterday. They were saying that in the old countries when you pay your taxes you support the Orthodox Church and its charities. However, a lot of the folk who come to the USA think that their taxes support the Church, and so the Churches here are poor. As a result, the Orthodox Churches here in the USA do not have the financial backing that they should have. It is largely the Protestant and Catholic converts to Orthodoxy that are keeping the parish doors open.

If we had more money donated to our churches, we could do more charitable services.

 

[E.C.]

My discernment process is far from complete, and one thing that keeps crossing my mind is the scary lack of "involvement" in to today's world by the Orthodox Church, whereas the Catholic Church is extremely involved. I know numbers mean nothing, but I find it hard to accept that the Catholic Church would have so many people behind it if it weren't true. Any help?

Aside from the other posts another thing is that we're not always noticed.

Being 1% of the total USA population certainly does not help, however I do recall a fairly recent National Geographic that had an article about the Russian Orthodox Church actually in Russia. One of the things mentioned is how the Church in Russia does a lot of ministries to the prisons and how some prisoners "traded their swastikas for crosses".

There are also Orthodox charities such as International Orthodox Christian Charities and Orthodox Christian Mission Center both of which do a lot of work in places such as Palestine, Uganda, Kenya, Brazil, Georgia (the country not the state), Serbia, and so on. In many areas where there are Orthodox churches there is something being done by Orthodox Christians.

In Alaska if it was not for the Orthodox Church than a few Native tribes would not have been able to preserve their language and/or alphabet because the Protestants tried to erase Orthodoxy from Alaska after the US bought it. I think that that is a very great service because it helps preserve a culture and more importantly a sense of identity for people who may otherwise be among those who just go through life not knowing who they are and not possessing a sense of direction.
I remember also hearing about an Orthodox priest who to this day walks the streets of Philadelphia at night helping homeless people. I believe that this priest's son, also a priest if I remember correctly, does the same thing.


But like I said, being 1% of the total population does not help one's efforts to be noticed. Even then, what would the notice do? It could make us proud and arrogant, so maybe the lack of being noticed is one of God's many ways of keeping us humble

Go to San Francisco and visit Raphael House. That is an Orthodox run soup kitchen. They have volunteer opportunities.

 

[Coralie]

I have the privilege of spending quite a bit of time at the Archbishopric of my province. Our Archbishop is amazing. He has very limited money, but he keeps his network strong, so he knows where to get funding when it's needed.

In the past four years, he's purchased and renovated a large suburban home and opened it as a widows' home (which I visit at least once a week--I see the good done there firsthand).

After spending several years in dialogue with a group of Rastafarians who live in the townships nearby (we're in South Africa), he baptised and chrismated the lot of them and is now helping them to complete the Orthodox chapel that they've started building in their camp--sourcing icons, reinforcing the walls, etc.

He financially and spiritually supports a few dozen families who were living in appalling poverty in a rural area just outside our city. He pays for the schooling of the children and teaches the parents and youths how to make a living. He ensures that the children receive birthday and nameday wishes and gifts, and that they have the means to celebrate Pascha and Christmas with all the trimmings--just generally reminds them that they are valuable and worthwhile human beings.

With his help, the Septuagint, Liturgies, and Hymns of the Church are being translated into Afrikaans for the first time so that they can be used for study and outreach. This is a HUGE deal because, contrary to popular belief, Afrikaans is the most widely-spoken language in our country and the translations will open Orthodoxy to millions of people.

He set up and oversaw many other projects when he worked in an even more impoverished area of the country--despite the fact that there are 50 million people in South Africa, and only 8 or so Orthodox Churches in the whole country, he manages to get very big things done.

This is just the Archbishop--never mind our parish priest, who a few weeks ago paid for a funeral for a man who had died suddenly and whose family was unprepared, and who regularly finds shelter and employment for those who need it. And never mind my catechism teacher, who supports two orphans. And never mind the individual parish members, who have shown unending kindness to me.

The work being done by Orthodox in Uganda, the Congo, and particularly Zimbabwe, is simply not reported on. It's not big news to the mass media.

The Catholic Church has centuries of fabulous wealth and mandated tithing to support it. It has a network of real estate second to none. There are also far more wealthy Catholics to support Catholic causes than there are Orthodox, which exists mostly in smaller, poorer, and more persecuted countries where we haven't had time to build up any kind of visible charitable empire. But that doesn't mean that the invisible empire isn't there.

Before you make too many decisions on this issue, maybe it would help if you nosed around in your local parish and found out what they're up to in terms of charitable work. And perhaps speak to your priest?

 

[Mikeb85]

So I guess I'm kind of wondering is, on what grounds do the Orthodox deny papal authority?

The fact that it was never defined by any of the councils, and the idea that any Bishop could rule over another Bishop's diocese never existed in the ancient Church.

Ideally, in the Orthodox Church, your local Bishop is the only Bishop with any power over a certain region. A Metropolitan/Patriarch can only make a decision binding on the Church with the approval of a Synod/Council of other Bishops. As an example, my Bishop is Archbishop Seraphim of Ottawa and all Canada. Even though Metropolitan Jonah is the 'head' of the OCA, he can't make any decision about the Church in Canada without the approval of the entire synod...

Why do we deny Papal authority? Look at the structure of our Church, and that of the ancient Church. Look at the Ecumenical Councils of the first 8 centuries. Look at the authority of our Patriarchs today - the ecclesiology of the RCC is completely foreign to our Church, which is why we deny it...

 

[Mikeb85]

My discernment process is far from complete, and one thing that keeps crossing my mind is the scary lack of "involvement" in to today's world by the Orthodox Church, whereas the Catholic Church is extremely involved. I know numbers mean nothing, but I find it hard to accept that the Catholic Church would have so many people behind it if it weren't true. Any help?

The Orthodox Church simply doesn't have the same media at it's disposal. Fact is, in the west, we only hear what the media want us to hear. Whether it's politics, religion, or anything else, we're spoonfed only the information that the media decides we should know.

And the fact is, the Orthodox Church is way more involved than is ever reported around here, in every part of the world...

 

[cheltham]

I hope you won't mind if I chime in here, because the OP raises some questions that I have asked myself during my search for (and confirmation of) my Christian faith.

About myself: I was raised Anglican, baptised and confirmed Anglican (many years ago) and I was blessed with a musical talent that has led me to worship and praise with many different congregations, from Catholic to Pentacostal and all across the Christian spectrum in between (b/c I've played professionally for many congregations, for holiday services or other special occassions like weddings etc.)

Your post caught my eye, because you wrote, "I find it hard to accept that the Catholic Church would have so many people behind it if it weren't true. Any help?"

I'm not sure if this thought would be of any help to you, but it seems to me that you might be troubled or struggling with an "ad populem" approach to your faith...that is to say, "so many people" believing in such or so a way (a popular way, that is) might be leading you to believe that another way (e.g., EO) is not "true" because it is less popular?

I hope I'm not rambling, but I think I have an understanding of what you mean. For me, I am drawn to Eastern Orthodoxy because I sense a purity of thought that underlies its expression of faith. I'm not sure how to explain that feeling, other than to say that even though I'm aware that EO is not "popular" in the sense of Western Orthodoxy, its popularity is not my concern: what I seek is a firm basis for my own faith, which I seem to be finding in EO.

Forgive me if I've rambled too much or posted inappropriately; I'm new here, and I was just trying to express how I would approach that question.

Blessings!
D

 

[ArmyMatt]

For me, I am drawn to Eastern Orthodoxy because I sense a purity of thought that underlies its expression of faith. I'm not sure how to explain that feeling, other than to say that even though I'm aware that EO is not "popular" in the sense of Western Orthodoxy, its popularity is not my concern: what I seek is a firm basis for my own faith, which I seem to be finding in EO.

too true, too true. remember we cannot simply say it's a numbers game. remember at one point there were only 8 faithful people to God left on the entire planet. so the question is about Truth and where to find it. the numbers thing is God's business, so leave that to Him.

 

[MariaRegina]

Welcome to TAW, cheltham

Feel free to start your own thread.

I also came to Orthodoxy because I was attracted to the purity of faith. Formerly I was a Catholic, but I wanted to repent and change my life. Orthodoxy helped me to do so, although I am just beginning to follow the narrow way.

Regarding the logical fallacy of following the majority, remember that the majority of Bishops in the early Church fell into the Arian heresy. The majority are not always correct.

In Christ,
Maria

I hope you won't mind if I chime in here, because the OP raises some questions that I have asked myself during my search for (and confirmation of) my Christian faith.

About myself: I was raised Anglican, baptised and confirmed Anglican (many years ago) and I was blessed with a musical talent that has led me to worship and praise with many different congregations, from Catholic to Pentacostal and all across the Christian spectrum in between (b/c I've played professionally for many congregations, for holiday services or other special occassions like weddings etc.)

Your post caught my eye, because you wrote, "I find it hard to accept that the Catholic Church would have so many people behind it if it weren't true. Any help?"

I'm not sure if this thought would be of any help to you, but it seems to me that you might be troubled or struggling with an "ad populem" approach to your faith...that is to say, "so many people" believing in such or so a way (a popular way, that is) might be leading you to believe that another way (e.g., EO) is not "true" because it is less popular?

I hope I'm not rambling, but I think I have an understanding of what you mean. For me, I am drawn to Eastern Orthodoxy because I sense a purity of thought that underlies its expression of faith. I'm not sure how to explain that feeling, other than to say that even though I'm aware that EO is not "popular" in the sense of Western Orthodoxy, its popularity is not my concern: what I seek is a firm basis for my own faith, which I seem to be finding in EO.

Forgive me if I've rambled too much or posted inappropriately; I'm new here, and I was just trying to express how I would approach that question.

Blessings!
D

 

[Coralie]

Welcome to TAW cheltham, you should hang out with us more! We would love to get to know you a little.

 

[cheltham]

Thank you for the kind welcome, I'm glad I found these forums! Looking forward to learning and sharing with you all!

God Bless Us, Every One!
D