Orthodoxy's view on Genesis 1

[Jacque_Pierre22]

Hi, I'm a lcms Lutheran, I'm just curious what the EO view is on the literal 6 24 hour days. Are there priests who believe in the "framework view" of Meredith Kline or the "analogical view"? Or is it required that there is not a literary/figurative way of interpretation? (for ordination in OCA for example)

 

[prodromos]

You would be better off asking your question here, as a number of EO don't post outside of the congregational sub forum.

 

[The Liturgist]

You would be better off asking your question here, as a number of EO don't post outside of the congregational sub forum.

Indeed, and I am thinking he should probably ask ArmyMatt, since he is an OCA priest and would be most likely to know specific to that denomination…and he only posts in The Ancient Way.

@Jacque_Pierre22 would you like me to help you ask your question in the Orthodox forum? Also you can ask the mods to move this thread.

 

[The Liturgist]

Hi, I'm a lcms Lutheran, I'm just curious what the EO view is on the literal 6 24 hour days. Are there priests who believe in the "framework view" of Meredith Kline or the "analogical view"? Or is it required that there is not a literary/figurative way of interpretation? (for ordination in OCA for example)

By the way, I love the LCMS, I went to LCMS parochial school in my youth and I am celebrating a decade since I joined the OCA.

 

[PloverWing]

By the way, I love the LCMS, I went to LCMS parochial school in my youth and I am celebrating a decade since I joined the OCA.

I didn't realize you'd joined the OCA. (I thought you were still wrestling with the UCC.) I'm so glad you've found a church home, and congratulations on 10 years!

 

[honey badger]

6 x 24 = 144

 

[Jacque_Pierre22]

Indeed, and I am thinking he should probably ask ArmyMatt, since he is an OCA priest and would be most likely to know specific to that denomination…and he only posts in The Ancient Way.

@Jacque_Pierre22 would you like me to help you ask your question in the Orthodox forum? Also you can ask the mods to move this thread.

sure thanks

 

[The Liturgist]

sure thanks

I asked the mods to move this thread for you, and if they are busy and can’t do it today, or are unable, I will open a new thread, so this should be set up for you by tomorrow, which will allow other members who only reply to threads in the Orthodox forum, such as our friend @ArmyMatt who is a priest in the OCA, to answer.

 

[Jacque_Pierre22]

I asked the mods to move this thread for you, and if they are busy and can’t do it today, or are unable, I will open a new thread, so this should be set up for you by tomorrow, which will allow other members who only reply to threads in the Orthodox forum, such as our friend @ArmyMatt who is a priest in the OCA, to answer.

great thanks

 

[HARK!]

MOD HAT ON

A small cleanup was required for this move.

MOD HAT OFF​

 

[ArmyMatt]

Hi, I'm a lcms Lutheran, I'm just curious what the EO view is on the literal 6 24 hour days. Are there priests who believe in the "framework view" of Meredith Kline or the "analogical view"? Or is it required that there is not a literary/figurative way of interpretation? (for ordination in OCA for example)

if it points you to Christ, all of the above.

 

[gzt]

Hi, I'm a lcms Lutheran, I'm just curious what the EO view is on the literal 6 24 hour days. Are there priests who believe in the "framework view" of Meredith Kline or the "analogical view"? Or is it required that there is not a literary/figurative way of interpretation? (for ordination in OCA for example)

Hi, there are a variety of views within Orthodoxy. While it's possible to be a literal six day young earth creationist, the last time I asked my bishop (in the OCA), he affirmed that this is not at all the required view within Orthodoxy, but rather that we can or even ought to read the first chapters of Genesis in accordance with their genre rather than as literal history, and that there is no real contradiction with the facts of evolution in this reading. This is not merely a metaphorical or allegorical reading of the text. You can see some of the varieties of Orthodox responses to evolution noted on this page: Evolution - OrthodoxWiki There are some people who insist that the Orthodox Church has definitively said that we must reject evolution, but they are lying about what the Orthodox Church teaches.

 

[prodromos]

but they are lying about what the Orthodox Church teaches

I believe that to be a lie.

 

[Jacque_Pierre22]

thanks for the replies everyone

 

[Platina]

You can find a variety of views from Orthodox people, but a singular teaching from Orthodox saints. The Church undoubtedly teaches that Genesis is literal history of the world, which is not mutually exclusive from it having allegorical meanings as well.
The mistake that evolutionists make is thinking you must choose //either// history //or// symbolism.

 

[rusmeister]

Platina correctly expressed the short answer.

I am reminded of CS Lewis writing something to the effect that he eventually became old enough to read fairy tales again. It was certainly the case with me, that I was raised as a northern fundamental Baptist believing in the literal six days, then became a skeptical adult trusting the claims of modern scientists and those that control education, and later coming to see how horribly corrupt and twisted those things had become. As a professional linguist, I now believe with definitive certainty in a literal Tower of Babel, I can practically see it with my professional eyes, the entire body of scholarship referencing “PIE” points to it as a solid reality, that there was one common language in the ancient world that was suddenly and unnaturally changed and broken up.

It is very hard for the modern man to believe that a thing that is symbolic can also be a real thing; he has beeen bombarded with assertions of certainty from institutions that he has been taught to implicitly trust. He believes that if millions of people assert a thing that it must be true, forgetting that people in a well-known country in the last century were in the millions were taught to believe that Jews were a sub human race of beings by their scientists, philosophers, and education system. So of course we have bishops and even members of this forum that you can see here that unwaveringly trust our own.

The people who reject the literal understandings of Genesis, when they follow their own logic, inevitably come to deny the existence of Adam as a real singular human being, and come to hold him as being merely a symbol. This is contradicted by our iconography and theology, which affirm the Adam was a definite man in history who was a holy forefather of Christ and whom people holding him as their patron saint pray to. Those people must do mental gymnastics to ignore Romans 5:12, choosing instead a narrative in which man gradually formed in a world in which death existed from the beginning, creature killing creature, long before there was any man to commit any sin.

The gospel is foolishness to the world. In the end, you must decide whether you believe in the world, or the consensus of the saints and fathers of the Church. That doesn’t mean that all learning in the world is wrong, but that there are things that the world can be wrong about en masse in its millions of followers.

 

[ArmyMatt]

This is contradicted by our iconography and theology, which affirm the Adam was a definite man in history who was a holy forefather of Christ and whom people holding him as their patron saint pray to.

plus, the African Code (which was adopted by the Ecumenical Councils), presents him as an actual, historical person.

 

[Jacque_Pierre22]

for the record for clarity, I've never once mentioned science in my question or evolution. So I never disputed the fact that one can hold to both a literal and Presbyterian framework/analogical view while still denying macro-evolution. I'm not trying to allegorize Genesis to fit an evolutionary view. There was an episode on the glory cloud with a pastor who holds to the framework view (the OPC church) and he said they questioned him for three hours before they agreed he held to a historical Adam and such. I also do not believe in astrobiology---that's also a demonic view in my opinion.

 

[rusmeister]

plus, the African Code (which was adopted by the Ecumenical Councils), presents him as an actual, historical person.

Could you enlighten me on that?

 

[ArmyMatt]

Could you enlighten me on that?

it’s a series of canons from primarily Carthage I believe, that all got lumped together