Orthodoxy and the Western Christian mind

[Light of the East]

I hope what I am about to share makes some sense. After a year of being immersed in the Orthodox faith through the various services of the Church, the readings of the lives of the saints, and comparing my own life to theirs, I am both shocked and challenged by my own life.

You see, in the Western (scholastic or intellectual) mindset of Christianity, to be a good Christian is simply to learn all the facts and teachings of your particular denomination and be able to regurgitate them on command Being a "Good Christian" or a "Holy Person" in the West means that you are a walking encyclopedia of knowledge and behave in a certain manner which complies with what your pastor or denominational leaders tell you is correct.

Thus . . . I considered myself a really good Christian because I was, like Saul of Tarsus, very zealous for outward actions and demonstrations of intellectual piety. Yet all the time, I was a nasty little (well . . . we don't use such descriptions in polite company) to be around. Arrogant, self-centered, dismissive of others, and unloving and unkind. I honestly don't know how my poor first wife put up with this for the many years of our marriage. She did finally decide that church and Christianity through the denomination were not for her. After all, if the belief system I espoused didn't make me a warm, loving, kind individual, filled with the love of God, of what good was it?

I bring this up today because I was reading some of the lives of the martyrs of Russia and because of our celebration this past weekend of Saint John of Shanghai. When I read the lives of these people who passionately loved Christ and stepped right up to die for Him, I find myself almost ashamed to identify as a follower of Christ. There is so much in me that is still quite unlike them.

When I stop and really think about all this . . . it is considerably discouraging, both to know my true self and to not know what to do to change. This is Orthodoxy. It does not deal with the intellect. It deals with the very being of one's self. It is ontological, not intellectual (although many of the great saints of the Church were deeply intellectual). It is about knowing Christ, not just knowing about Him.

It is to experience Christ. And in this, I am learning I have light-years to go.

Through the prayers of the Holy Theotokos, of St. Paisios, my patron, and of all the saints, may God have mercy on me.

 

[GaryAnderson]

Amen!

 

[ArmyMatt]

amen!

 

[Not David]

I believe that there was a saint who said "A theologian is one who prays" (or maybe that was Father Matthew lol).

 

[ArmyMatt]

I believe that there was a saint who said "A theologian is one who prays" (or maybe that was Father Matthew lol).

it was Evagrius, then rephrased by St Silouan.

 

[Dewi Sant]

It has to be the chief blessing for me in Orthodoxy that we view the scriptures radically differently from other Christian communities. For us, they are the records of the church, a wealth of wisdom, but certainly not a thing to be worshipped as a sole authority.
We believe the scriptures are divinely inspired, but not in the way they are claimed to be by Mohammad or Joseph Smith; it is not like God literally spoke word for word into the bible, making the apostles little more than breathing typewriters. Or indeed, like how the King James Version of 1611 descended from the heavens on a golden thread as the translation once and for all delivered, inerrant, and unchanging.

Beware of building a faith on arguments. There are those whose chief joy in life is winning and learning how to win arguments, regardless of the claims being presented.
If I asked you why you love your mother/wife/child, it would be hard to express love and its meaning. The professional arguer would be keen to push you to a utilitarian and quantifiable analogue of love, as they may be more familiar with knowing how to win arguments on those grounds.

 

[ArmyMatt]

It has to be the chief blessing for me in Orthodoxy that we view the scriptures radically differently from other Christian communities. For us, they are the records of the church, a wealth of wisdom, but certainly not a thing to be worshipped as a sole authority.
We believe the scriptures are divinely inspired, but not in the way they are claimed to be by Mohammad or Joseph Smith; it is not like God literally spoke word for word into the bible, making the apostles little more than breathing typewriters. Or indeed, like how the King James Version of 1611 descended from the heavens on a golden thread as the translation once and for all delivered, inerrant, and unchanging.

yep, God’s Word is His Son.

 

[Dogheaded]

The West is dying. There isn't much left that can be preserved.

 

[rusmeister]

The West is dying. There isn't much left that can be preserved.

Alkallabêth.

Akallabêth

Akallabêth: The Downfall of Númenor is the fourth part of The Silmarillion, edited by Christopher Tolkien from his father's later texts. It tells the story of the...

tolkiengateway.net

 

[ArmyMatt]

The West is dying. There isn't much left that can be preserved.

we’re definitely in a downward spiral. but there does seem to be an undercurrent pushing back. I just hope it leads somewhere.

 

[ArmyMatt]

Alkallabêth.

Akallabêth

Akallabêth: The Downfall of Númenor is the fourth part of The Silmarillion, edited by Christopher Tolkien from his father's later texts. It tells the story of the...

tolkiengateway.net

and the dwarves delving too greedily in Moria.

 

[Dewi Sant]

we’re definitely in a downward spiral. but there does seem to be an undercurrent pushing back. I just hope it leads somewhere.

I am not really that concerned with how things are going; or at least, I am certainly not surprised.
What we are seeing today is just the inflammation of trends which have been steady throughout the present century (with obvious roots going back far far deeper, at least 500 years).
Back as an Anglican (1988-2008), I was disheartened to see so many churches being lukewarm in the chancel but vibrant in the parish hall. Now the chancel has become the parish hall, and God is an unpopular and divisive opinion.
Chairs replace pews, coffee stands replace prayer desks.

The reformation sought to address many heresies in the Catholic church in its day. Chief among which, clericalism.
The bible and services were translated to the vernacular, the sacred mass became the lord's supper, the laity were included within the operation of the services. Down came the rood lofts and chancel screens. This all must have been terribly exciting for the reformers, seeing themselves as progressive and radical (from radix, pertaining to the root).
But the western churches never agreed when the reforms were complete.
As with the French Revolution, factions multiply at remarkable rate, some conservative, some radical, some liberal; and before long the architect of the republic, Robespierre, is led to the guillotine.

The Roman church began its irreversible internal schism with the poorly defined implementations of the Second Vatican Council.
The Anglican did likewise when, regardless of churchmanship, the point of union was no longer in the use of a single authorised prayerbook, but in some corporate respect for the Archbishop of Canterbury; effectively making each parish its own franchise of CofE inc.
Yes yes, the admission of women to the divine ministry in Anglicanism, and the whole thing with Gene Robinson in ECUSA. The ratification of women to the episcopacy in recent years in the CofE.
I see the secular virtue in extending the ministry to all adult believing persons, regardless of sex (from a secular perspective); but once the church is seen to be playing to the admiration and condemnation of the world, we have all gone a bit topsy turvy.

I won't post it here, but if you want to upset yourself, look up 'The Sparkle Creed'.

 

[Dewi Sant]

sorry I rambled oops

 

[ArmyMatt]

I won't post it here, but if you want to upset yourself, look up 'The Sparkle Creed'.

been there, done that (sadly).

I am not really that concerned with how things are going; or at least, I am certainly not surprised.
What we are seeing today is just the inflammation of trends which have been steady throughout the present century (with obvious roots going back far far deeper, at least 500 years).
Back as an Anglican (1988-2008), I was disheartened to see so many churches being lukewarm in the chancel but vibrant in the parish hall. Now the chancel has become the parish hall, and God is an unpopular and divisive opinion.
Chairs replace pews, coffee stands replace prayer desks.

The reformation sought to address many heresies in the Catholic church in its day. Chief among which, clericalism.
The bible and services were translated to the vernacular, the sacred mass became the lord's supper, the laity were included within the operation of the services. Down came the rood lofts and chancel screens. This all must have been terribly exciting for the reformers, seeing themselves as progressive and radical (from radix, pertaining to the root).
But the western churches never agreed when the reforms were complete.
As with the French Revolution, factions multiply at remarkable rate, some conservative, some radical, some liberal; and before long the architect of the republic, Robespierre, is led to the guillotine.

The Roman church began its irreversible internal schism with the poorly defined implementations of the Second Vatican Council.
The Anglican did likewise when, regardless of churchmanship, the point of union was no longer in the use of a single authorised prayerbook, but in some corporate respect for the Archbishop of Canterbury; effectively making each parish its own franchise of CofE inc.
Yes yes, the admission of women to the divine ministry in Anglicanism, and the whole thing with Gene Robinson in ECUSA. The ratification of women to the episcopacy in recent years in the CofE.
I see the secular virtue in extending the ministry to all adult believing persons, regardless of sex (from a secular perspective); but once the church is seen to be playing to the admiration and condemnation of the world, we have all gone a bit topsy turvy.

as a former Episcopalian myself, it’s what I saw too.