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The Coptic service features cymbals in a rhythmic pattern rather than drums. The chant is high-pitched and generally drawn out. I don't know the language but I can appreciate the expression anyway.
That doesn't really fit with apophatism, since anything that can be said about God is ultimately incorrect in the strict sense.
not unless He reveals it. He can reveal His Truth to anyone who has a willing heart.
and we are not talking about apophatism. the fact that He established one visible Body on earth, and one visible Body has maintained that actually has nothing to do with apophatism.
Well, even things that God reveals directly are not, in apophatic theology, strictly correct, as in complete and accurate. They are always limited and a compromise with human intellectual limitations and human language. This is a really useful thing to know because it prevents us from making some kinds of errors, and can also become important in how we read Scripture. Ultimatly it is what protects us from descending into a kind of literalism and fundamentalism.
Take something like the Trinity, which in the normal course of things we would say is true, revealed information from God. And yet we can see that on some level it does not make normal sense, it does not quite hang together. It is trying to push us towards a sort of intuitive sense or way of touching God with the mind, but even that in the end is less than what God is. Our direct experience of him will be limited too, by what we are.
well yeah, I agree. we cannot even accurately articulate a beautiful sunset, let alone God. but it's not an intellectual matter, it's a matter of the heart, which is where He communicates with man. what God does must be experienced, not just thought about and pondered. and only those with a similar experience will "know" what it was like.
I now see why you wear your beards...
No more comments in this thread, please. I've submitted a request to have it closed.
um, that makes no sense
Hopefully, you'll be able to experience that at some point in the future...I'd love to attend one of those services some day to see what it's like. I've never seen drums and dancing incorporated into a formal liturgy before, but I think it's really cool! Unfortunately, I don't know of any church like that nearby. There's a Coptic church in Little Rock, but I don't think they do that sort of thing.
And don't give me that we don't know where grace is not crap. .
Well, since the mods are dragging their feet (or else deliberately ignoring me)...
...to hide the grimaces of guilt on your faces when you lie to the Holy Spirit by denying that other Christians who confess Jesus as Lord (1 Cor. 12:3) are baptized.
Ever hear of a bald-faced lie? I imagine it usually takes decades of practice, given the horrific nature of your church's blasphemy. By the time you're so calloused and numb to the Holy Spirit that you can keep a straight face, why bother with a razor? You must keep up appearances, after all.
And don't give me that we don't know where grace is not crap. When you see non-Orthodox Christians worshiping and glorifying God and rejoicing in the Spirit, you can know that those are baptized Christians. You can know that they've been quickened by the Holy Spirit and regenerated. You can see it in them. It shows. The Spirit Himself testifies to its authenticity. Deny this at your own peril (Mark 3:28-30).
How the hell can you Orthodox stand to look at yourselves in the mirror?
Moderators, please...
I think I understand your points, but I'm not sure others here do: you are trying to say the Orthodox appeal to experience, and yet discrediting the experiences of Western Christians. You should check out Georges Florovsky and Paul Evdokimov, however, before your write off Eastern Orthodoxy altogether for being narrow. There are some charitable and thoughtful Orthodox thinkers, they just won't dominate the reading list of some Orthodox Christians, especially those that seem to populate internet forums.
I think I understand your points, but I'm not sure others here do: you are trying to say the Orthodox appeal to experience, and yet discrediting the experiences of Western Christians. You should check out Georges Florovsky and Paul Evdokimov, however, before your write off Eastern Orthodoxy altogether for being narrow. There are some charitable and thoughtful Orthodox thinkers, they just won't dominate the reading list of some Orthodox Christians, especially those that seem to populate internet forums.
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