Orthodox who support homosexual activity

[GenetoJean]

I have never attended an Orthodox service, nor have knowingly ever met an Orthodox person in real life, but from what I see on here, I really love you guys and the Christian love I feel from yall. I am capable of seeing the loving place SOME people (mainly Orthodox and Catholic) are coming from in trying to tell me I am sinning and welcoming me to fellowship with them. Thank yall.

 

[rusmeister]

Please stop responding to my messages that are not addressed to you. Unless you own this forum, of course. Thank you. If I annoy you, there's the ignore list.

No, Mariya, I suspected from the beginning that you wanted to promote acceptance of active same-sex relations in the Church, and I can see that I was not wrong. We DO collectively control this forum and DO have the right to tell you to cease and desist from such promotion. If you insist on violating the rules of our sub-forum then we will act according to the rules.

 

[truefiction1]

“Many people today would rather be right than compassionate.” -- Karen Armstrong

 

[rusmeister]

“Many people today would rather be right than compassionate.” -- Karen Armstrong

TF, tell that to St Nicholas when he socked Arius, or to Jesus when he was kicking he money changers out of the Temple. I am not in their league, but what I say is just as necessary. Do not try to contradict the clear consensus of the Church!

 

[truefiction1]

TF, tell that to St Nichilas when he socked Arius, or to Jesus when he was kicking he money changers out of the Temple. I am not in their league, but what I say is just as necessary. Do not try to contradict the clear consensus of the Church!

I quoted a statement made by someone once that is true enough. That's all.

 

[jckstraw72]

i think i would tremble in fear at the idea of quoting Karen Armstrong approvingly

 

[Mariya116]

we will act according to the rules.

That's what I would prefer because bullying me won't work. Adding you to the ignore list.

 

[Kristos]

That's what I would prefer because bullying me won't work. Adding you to the ignore list.

I think you should consider what Rus is saying because although his tone may sound a bit uncharitable as times, he is speaking the truth - if he wasn't, there is a pack of lions waiting to pounce Perhaps it all seems a bit silly to you, but posting in this forum as an Orthodox Christian carries with it a certain responsibility to the faith being presented.

 

[Mariya116]

I think you should consider what Rus is saying because although his tone may sound a bit uncharitable as times, he is speaking the truth - if he wasn't, there is a pack of lions waiting to pounce Perhaps it all seems a bit silly to you, but posting in this forum as an Orthodox Christian carries with it a certain responsibility to the faith being presented.

I certainly agree with the responsibility to the faith part. The way I see it, I don't think homosexuality is a correct thing to do any more than any sexual relations outside of marriage are a correct thing to do. But that being said, I do not understand the preoccupation with homosexuality issue. As I mentioned before, I never heard it discussed by actual Orthodox Christians anywhere. Good old heterosexual fornication is a much more serious issue today in my eyes. I see so many couples and families in church that are all living in sin or have lived in sin, and that is how the family was built. How do they combine living in sin and living a church lifestyle? Some people I know, and I myself, have been alone for years because we don't believe in fornication... A lady in my parish (!) told me it's better to live together before marriage. Sometimes I feel as if my head is about to explode. I feel like I am doing something strange, silly and unnecessary by taking seriously the commandment to wait. For me so far, it has meant remaining alone. Maybe that's why I'm cranky most of the time. I met someone recently who actually goes to church and knows that I do. Things seems to be going well, I'm thrilled. But I'm very afraid that once we have that conversation it will mean the end of the relationship. I have been praying for guidance lately.

 

[truefiction1]

i think i would tremble in fear at the idea of quoting Karen Armstrong approvingly

"I am not a smart man, but I know what love is." -- Forrest Gump

 

[Mariya116]

And since I'm on the topic of waiting, I've been reading posts by our own Halupki Monster who has admittedly been struggling with same sex attraction and has decided to be abstinent. I have much respect for his decision and feel he an I are somewhat in the same place - abstaining from something that is not allowed even if it means being alone, period.

 

[jckstraw72]

"I am not a smart man, but I know what love is." -- Forrest Gump

hahaha, you got me.

 

[Kristos]

I certainly agree with the responsibility to the faith part. The way I see it, I don't think homosexuality is a correct thing to do any more than any sexual relations outside of marriage are a correct thing to do. But that being said, I do not understand the preoccupation with homosexuality issue. As I mentioned before, I never heard it discussed by actual Orthodox Christians anywhere. Good old heterosexual fornication is a much more serious issue today in my eyes. I see so many couples and families in church that are all living in sin or have lived in sin, and that is how the family was built. How do they combine living in sin and living a church lifestyle? Some people I know, and I myself, have been alone for years because we don't believe in fornication... A lady in my parish (!) told me it's better to live together before marriage. Sometimes I feel as if my head is about to explode. I feel like I am doing something strange, silly and unnecessary by taking seriously the commandment to wait. For me so far, it has meant remaining alone. Maybe that's why I'm cranky most of the time. I met someone recently who actually goes to church and knows that I do. Things seems to be going well, I'm thrilled. But I'm very afraid that once we have that conversation it will mean the end of the relationship. I have been praying for guidance lately.

Bravo to you! Any man not willing to wait is not worth it anyway, so you are better off. I know this sounds cliche, but when the right man comes, he will wait -

 

[Mariya116]

Bravo to you! Any man not willing to wait is not worth it anyway, so you are better off. I know this sounds cliche, but when the right man comes, he will wait -

I'm 35 already and have some gray hairs. :-( But you ARE absolutely right.

 

[Kristos]

I'm 35 already and have some gray hairs. :-( But you ARE absolutely right.

You look much younger in your photo - you must have good skin

 

[rusmeister]

I certainly agree with the responsibility to the faith part. The way I see it, I don't think homosexuality is a correct thing to do any more than any sexual relations outside of marriage are a correct thing to do.

But no one would know this from your words. Even saying it is not "correct" sounds to my ears like saying murder is not "correct". It understates the sin to the point of it being not sin, and so, is a poor choice of word. In fact, I have yet to see you admit that it IS sin, brokenness with God.

But that being said, I do not understand the preoccupation with homosexuality issue. As I mentioned before, I never heard it discussed by actual Orthodox Christians anywhere.

Then you have not yet heard from those who have already been persecuted for standing up for that teaching. Catholic Charities that arrange adoptions have been forced to shut down in states where same-sex relations are legalized because they won't sell out on the ancient teaching. Photographers and confectioners have already been SUCCESSFULLY sued because they would not provide services for "gay weddings". Maybe you would understand it if you realized that it meant that you would lose your livelihood over it. You cannot have a society where people both approve AND disapprove of this. It must, as Abraham Lincoln said about slavery, become all one thing or the other.

Good old heterosexual fornication is a much more serious issue today in my eyes. I see so many couples and families in church that are all living in sin or have lived in sin, and that is how the family was built. How do they combine living in sin and living a church lifestyle?

I agree, and would even take it back to easy divorce, a thing that happened less than a hundred years ago. But this issue IS a problem in the Church and there ARE people that do not see this as sin in the Church. It will cease to be a problem as soon as the rebels lay down their arms and admit that the Church's doctrines are true and not in error, and accept them. For me, I initially had to struggle with doctrine on confession and the Theotokos; some language and expressions still raise questions in my mind, though most have been answered quite satisfactority. But I have come to see that I need a Church that is not only right where I am right, that happens to agree with me, but is right where I am WRONG, and this is what I have found to be true on the issues where I HAVE disagreed.

Some people I know, and I myself, have been alone for years because we don't believe in fornication... A lady in my parish (!) told me it's better to live together before marriage. Sometimes I feel as if my head is about to explode. I feel like I am doing something strange, silly and unnecessary by taking seriously the commandment to wait. For me so far, it has meant remaining alone. Maybe that's why I'm cranky most of the time. I met someone recently who actually goes to church and knows that I do. Things seems to be going well, I'm thrilled. But I'm very afraid that once we have that conversation it will mean the end of the relationship. I have been praying for guidance lately.

Personally, I think that's great, and will root and pray for you. The world needs faithful believing women and mothers as much as it needs faithful believing men.

I'm just saying to not even give a sense of contradicting the Church as long as you wear that faith icon. And if you want to QUESTION things - AND get answers, there's always St Justin's or St Basil's sub-forums, appropriate places to bring them.

 

[rusmeister]

And since I'm on the topic of waiting, I've been reading posts by our own Halupki Monster who has admittedly been struggling with same sex attraction and has decided to be abstinent. I have much respect for his decision and feel he an I are somewhat in the same place - abstaining from something that is not allowed even if it means being alone, period.

I agree - and have praised his stand and the wisdom he expresses beyond his years. I wish I had understood what he understands at his age.

 

[rusmeister]

I think you should consider what Rus is saying because although his tone may sound a bit uncharitable as times, he is speaking the truth - if he wasn't, there is a pack of lions waiting to pounce Perhaps it all seems a bit silly to you, but posting in this forum as an Orthodox Christian carries with it a certain responsibility to the faith being presented.

The "pack of lions" actually has me trembling, seriously. And I am totally open to having my behind kicked by the consensus of believers here and would love it if someone else would say these things more charitably - though I ran a "charity check" and was still convinced that those things needed to be said before I posted them. Still, I might learn something. For me, it IS challenging to be charitable AND not surrender on truth. If I was actually uncharitable in saying those things - though I don't think I was - I will apologize and learn.

 

[Dorothea]

We don't "stereotype" in any sense of assuming that all individuals of a certain type, here, who experience a certain passion, are alike.

I don't think either of you have fully delved into the teachings of the Church. If you did, you would discover the compassion. You would discover that we don't label people "gays" or pigeonhole them. That the passion is rightly condemned but the individual is rightly to be loved and accepted like all others - though approval of his passion is NOT.

When you come into the Orthodox Church, AJ, you are NOT "gay". You are a man in need of salvation like all of us. Like the rest of us, you have wrong desires. If what you are looking for is approval of those desires, you are just plain not going to find it.

You have to want God more than you want your passions. As long as your passions are priority over God, you can never attain heaven.

That said, it follows naturally from that that we do NOT approve of lawless violence. It's no use telling us to disapprove of it. We do. But it's no use telling YOU we disapprove if you refuse to see that we must also disapprove of all sinful passions, including the desire for the same sex.

The Church has been around for two thousand years. There have ALWAYS been fringe groups claiming things in the name of the Church and they have never changed the Church as a whole. Yes, the secular centrally-controlled media do aim to exaggerate those fringes, but that is only a matter of false perception. The damage is actually done by the media, not by the Church itself, and yet the Church always rises again from such attacks. The faithful can only do what they have always done: pray for the grace of God and try to live according to the Gospels.

But those Gospels do condemn sodomy, and the unnatural love of men for men, along with other sins that most of us are guilty of, somewhere or other. So looking for a Christian faith that approves of such things is vain. If you find it, it is not Christian.

Excellent post, Rus. The part I bolded is the crux of the problem. We don't put God before our desires a lot of the time.

 

[Dorothea]

I have never attended an Orthodox service, nor have knowingly ever met an Orthodox person in real life, but from what I see on here, I really love you guys and the Christian love I feel from yall. I am capable of seeing the loving place SOME people (mainly Orthodox and Catholic) are coming from in trying to tell me I am sinning and welcoming me to fellowship with them. Thank yall.

You're welcome, Gene, and it's nice to see you again.