Orthodox and Unorthodox

[Phantasman]

I grew up in the Orthodox thought as a Nazarene (Church of). Since those many years as a Nazarene, I could not get a clear answer to many questions I had concerning life and spirituality. But I chose to take the brave (taboo?) step and seek out more than my limited Orthodox thought and placed trust in God to allow me to seek if there were truth in those scriptures that had been kept from me. It is now where my beliefs come from, and I am the better for it.

Here is how a compare the two thoughts.

To me, as I only followed Orthodox thought, I compare it to a bird in a bird cage. The bird is fed and watered and has all it needs to live it's life. It is happy and safe.

Unorthodox thought is like opening the door to the cage and letting the bird free to soar the air. It may not be as safe, but there are so many more things to do and see. It may have to work for it's food and water, but it (probably) survives as well.

With that in mind, if the caged birds owner dies, if there is no one else, the bird will die as well. It depends on the provider of the cage to see to it's needs. On the other hand, the free bird is under it's own control, and can quickly learn to evade destruction by it's ability to act in an open environment.

Like both of the birds mentioned, there is no right or wrong for how they live, since both may live long lives. But which bird is better prepared for challenges?

When Soulgazer gave me the question "If they undeniable found Jesus bones in a tomb, would you still believe in Christ?". This is an excellent challenge. If I believed as I had been through my Orthodox days, I would either be making excuses that it "couldn't be" or finding a way to disprove it. I may just take it as a lie, even if it were true. I would find any way to keep my faith going.

But as I have learned by pursuit of truth in the many scriptures, I can honestly say that that question does not pose any faith shaking details. I don't see the Gospel as a story of Jesus anymore. I see the scriptures as wisdom from God, through Christ. And there is a difference. It is the wisdom that we judge all other scriptures that surround the Gospel by.

I don't expect anyone to believe what I believe. I only praise God in allowing me to see the difference. It's not about right or wrong. It's not about who is saved or who isn't. It's all in our perceptions. Of truth. Of God. Of Christ. We all want our perceptions to be correct. I pray daily for guidance, not just for myself, but those who I touch.

Critique me.

 

[drstevej]

"If they undeniable found Jesus bones in a tomb, would you still believe in Christ?"

No, and neither would have Paul (1Cor 15). The issue is sin and forgiveness. I place my trust solely in the resurrected Christ. He is my guarantee.

If He is a fraud, I am an idiot.

 

[Phantasman]

"If they undeniable found Jesus bones in a tomb, would you still believe in Christ?"

No, and neither would have Paul (1Cor 15). The issue is sin and forgiveness. I place my trust solely in the resurrected Christ. He is my guarantee.

If He is a fraud, I am an idiot.

ROTFL............I neither believe him a fraud or you an idiot.

 

[Noxot]

all I desire is for you to be the very best bird you can be and sing along with all the other birds and always be under the wing of God.

there is no end to freedom but the abyss can be a scary place.

 

[Phantasman]

all I desire is for you to be the very best bird you can be and sing along with all the other birds and always be under the wing of God.

there is no end to freedom but the abyss can be a scary place.

How beautiful.

My love knows no limits and if I go into the darkness, I pray the light in Christ leads me through it.

May Christ be in you.

 

[seeingeyes]

I grew up in the Orthodox thought as a Nazarene (Church of). Since those many years as a Nazarene, I could not get a clear answer to many questions I had concerning life and spirituality. But I chose to take the brave (taboo?) step and seek out more than my limited Orthodox thought and placed trust in God to allow me to seek if there were truth in those scriptures that had been kept from me. It is now where my beliefs come from, and I am the better for it.

Here is how a compare the two thoughts.

To me, as I only followed Orthodox thought, I compare it to a bird in a bird cage. The bird is fed and watered and has all it needs to live it's life. It is happy and safe.

Unorthodox thought is like opening the door to the cage and letting the bird free to soar the air. It may not be as safe, but there are so many more things to do and see. It may have to work for it's food and water, but it (probably) survives as well.

With that in mind, if the caged birds owner dies, if there is no one else, the bird will die as well. It depends on the provider of the cage to see to it's needs. On the other hand, the free bird is under it's own control, and can quickly learn to evade destruction by it's ability to act in an open environment.

Like both of the birds mentioned, there is no right or wrong for how they live, since both may live long lives. But which bird is better prepared for challenges?

When Soulgazer gave me the question "If they undeniable found Jesus bones in a tomb, would you still believe in Christ?". This is an excellent challenge. If I believed as I had been through my Orthodox days, I would either be making excuses that it "couldn't be" or finding a way to disprove it. I may just take it as a lie, even if it were true. I would find any way to keep my faith going.

But as I have learned by pursuit of truth in the many scriptures, I can honestly say that that question does not pose any faith shaking details. I don't see the Gospel as a story of Jesus anymore. I see the scriptures as wisdom from God, through Christ. And there is a difference. It is the wisdom that we judge all other scriptures that surround the Gospel by.

I don't expect anyone to believe what I believe. I only praise God in allowing me to see the difference. It's not about right or wrong. It's not about who is saved or who isn't. It's all in our perceptions. Of truth. Of God. Of Christ. We all want our perceptions to be correct. I pray daily for guidance, not just for myself, but those who I touch.

Critique me.

I feel similarly. My 'safety' now is not in bars that I can see, but in my Father in heaven who notes every sparrow that falls to the ground.

God bless

 

[101c]

John 8:36 "If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed".

 

[timewerx]

When Soulgazer gave me the question "If they undeniable found Jesus bones in a tomb, would you still believe in Christ?". This is an excellent challenge. If I believed as I had been through my Orthodox days, I would either be making excuses that it "couldn't be" or finding a way to disprove it. I may just take it as a lie, even if it were true. I would find any way to keep my faith going.

But as I have learned by pursuit of truth in the many scriptures, I can honestly say that that question does not pose any faith shaking details. I don't see the Gospel as a story of Jesus anymore. I see the scriptures as wisdom from God, through Christ. And there is a difference. It is the wisdom that we judge all other scriptures that surround the Gospel by.

Perhaps to you, it's no harm done, all is good.

But such "challenge" could be disastrous and faith-shaking to Orthodox believers if they could prove it themselves with great accuracy. It could ruin the lives of many who might turn to lawlessness, substance abuse, even suicide. With almost half of the world as Christians, it might mean the end of our civilization.

Although you didn't say it, perhaps you're just trying your best to be nice to everyone but under less ideal conditions, your hypothesis would prove that one is right and the other is wrong. One will endure the test of scrutiny and time and the other will not.

 

[Noxot]

Perhaps to you, it's no harm done, all is good.

But such "challenge" could be disastrous and faith-shaking to Orthodox believers if they could prove it themselves with great accuracy. It could ruin the lives of many who might turn to lawlessness, substance abuse, even suicide. With almost half of the world as Christians, it might mean the end of our civilization.

you saying that reminds me of a story my grandma told me. there was a radio personality years ago who was pretending that aliens were invading the earth and that they were attacking humans and all that. people started to jump off building and kill themselves over that, even though it was just a story, though it sounded convincing.

how could anyone ever prove with great accuracy that Jesus was found to not be resurrected? I doubt there would ever be enough evidence. it is much more likely it would just be more lies about Jesus, nothing new under the sun. indeed maybe many baby Christians would stumble but those maturing in Spirit already have much more proof than physical reality and perceptions of truth that the eyes of blind humanity and the devil could conjure up.

in fact we ought to be considering that such events COULD happen in this world. we better be making sure we are not standing on something less than God for our beliefs in God because all the things that can not stand will be shaken at some point. consider how that maybe the 2 houses in that certain parable that Jesus gave were built with the exact same materials, but one was built on the rock and the others built on dirt or sand. we all know the story.

2Cor 5:12-19 (YLT)
for not again ourselves do we recommend to you, but we are giving occasion to you of glorifying in our behalf, that ye may have something in reference to those glorifying in face and not in heart; for whether we were beside ourselves, it was to God; whether we be of sound mind-- it is to you, for the love of the Christ doth constrain us, having judged thus: that if one for all died, then the whole died, and for all he died, that those living, no more to themselves may live, but to him who died for them, and was raised again. So that we henceforth have known no one according to the flesh, and even if we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now we know him no more; so that if any one is in Christ-- he is a new creature; the old things did pass away, lo, become new have the all things. And the all things are of God, who reconciled us to Himself through Jesus Christ, and did give to us the ministration of the reconciliation, how that God was in Christ--a world reconciling to Himself, not reckoning to them their trespasses; and having put in us the word of the reconciliation,

 

[Phantasman]

Perhaps to you, it's no harm done, all is good.

But such "challenge" could be disastrous and faith-shaking to Orthodox believers if they could prove it themselves with great accuracy. It could ruin the lives of many who might turn to lawlessness, substance abuse, even suicide. With almost half of the world as Christians, it might mean the end of our civilization.

Although you didn't say it, perhaps you're just trying your best to be nice to everyone but under less ideal conditions, your hypothesis would prove that one is right and the other is wrong. One will endure the test of scrutiny and time and the other will not.

You are looking through your eyes and not your heart, where truth lies.

When we have the "preconceived" truth, our perception follows that truth.

Those who say they will die first and then rise are in error. If they do not first receive the resurrection while they live, when they die they will receive nothing. So also when speaking about baptism they say, "Baptism is a great thing," because if people receive it they will live.-Philip

Those who say that the Lord died first and (then) rose up are in error, for he rose up first and (then) died. If one does not first attain the resurrection, he will not die.-Philip

John 11:
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?


We see that in the Gospels, the resurrection (especially with the widow and the brothers) are "preconceived" by those that are asking, as Moses taught the resurrection of the dead. But Christ explained that he is the resurrection right now.

Don't let Paul confuse you (and I don't believe it was his intent to confuse), but find what is hidden rather what's before your eyes, and you will see that whether there were bones or not, the resurrection is real.

 

[timewerx]

You are looking through your eyes and not your heart, where truth lies.

When we have the "preconceived" truth, our perception follows that truth.

Those who say they will die first and then rise are in error. If they do not first receive the resurrection while they live, when they die they will receive nothing. So also when speaking about baptism they say, "Baptism is a great thing," because if people receive it they will live.-Philip

Those who say that the Lord died first and (then) rose up are in error, for he rose up first and (then) died. If one does not first attain the resurrection, he will not die.-Philip

John 11:
24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this?


We see that in the Gospels, the resurrection (especially with the widow and the brothers) are "preconceived" by those that are asking, as Moses taught the resurrection of the dead. But Christ explained that he is the resurrection right now.

Don't let Paul confuse you (and I don't believe it was his intent to confuse), but find what is hidden rather what's before your eyes, and you will see that whether there were bones or not, the resurrection is real.

I remain impartial about resurrection theories.

But the problem remains. While we theorize, different belief system remain at odds against each other.

We could say no one has the authority to say they have the truth but you still can't sit them in one table peacefully without keeping silent about their religious beliefs.

 

[Phantasman]

I remain impartial about resurrection theories.

But the problem remains. While we theorize, different belief system remain at odds against each other.

We could say no one has the authority to say they have the truth but you still can't sit them in one table peacefully without keeping silent about their religious beliefs.

The resurrection to me is the Chrism, which defines Christian.

The chrism is superior to baptism, for it is from the word "Chrism" that we have been called "Christians," certainly not because of the word "baptism". And it is because of the chrism that "the Christ" has his name. For the Father anointed the Son, and the Son anointed the apostles, and the apostles anointed us. He who has been anointed possesses everything. He possesses the resurrection, the light, the cross, the Holy Spirit.-Philip

Orthodox teaching is that the baptism of water is essential.This is a catholic sacrament.
Truth comes in types and images, and everyone can see images differently.

Truth did not come into the world naked, but it came in types and images. The world will not receive truth in any other way. There is a rebirth and an image of rebirth. It is certainly necessary to be born again through the image. Which one? Resurrection. The image must rise again through the image.-Philip