Original Sin ??

[Gentileone]

Hi All

I would like to to find what you ppl's think how Eve then Adam sinned.

What is Eve sin ?

What is Adam's ?

How did they actually sin ?

We do know it wasnt an apple or an actual fruit, but what was it ?

Any comments are welcome and this thread is not to start a slinging match,
only to find out what you think with scriptures in a mature way for an open discussion. Thanks


I hope to read all of your responses

God Bless

 

[armothe]

What is Eve sin ?

What is Adam's ?

How did they actually sin ?

We do know it wasnt an apple or an actual fruit, but what was it ?

They both disregarded what God desired/commanded of them and instead ate of the fruit out of selfishness and greed.

-A

 

[Gentileone]

They both disregarded what God desired/commanded of them and instead ate of the fruit out of selfishness and greed.

-A

Selfishness and Greed, how do you come to that conclusion!.
Can you explain some more?.

I do agree they disregarded what God had commanded.

Thanx Armothe

God Bless

 

[armothe]

Selfishness and Greed, how do you come to that conclusion!. Can you explain some more?.

The serpent enticed Eve by stating she would become like God if she ate the fruit. I would suspect that this realization would result in some sort of greediness, pride or selfishness. But honestly, we aren't 100% clear about the state of their hearts as they ate the fruit. All we know is that they sinned.

-A

 

[Gentileone]

yeah i understand what you have said.

But what was there actual sin?
yes Eve ate of the fruit, but how did she sin?

God Bless

 

[linden]

yeah i understand what you have said.

But what was there actual sin?
yes Eve ate of the fruit, but how did she sin?

God Bless

I would say disobedient to God's directive. Did you ever notice how easy it was for them to sin. I mean everyday they saw that tree. It was clearly designated as the one tree not to eat of, and they still did it. Of course we basically follow their ways.

Linden

 

[armothe]

yeah i understand what you have said.
But what was there actual sin? yes Eve ate of the fruit, but how did she sin?

I think perhaps we may be defining sin differently.

I define sin as thoughts/lusts or actions conceived out of hostility. Hostility being the opposite of love or a loving attitude. Perhaps hostility is too strong of a word - I suppose enmity, antipathy or inconsiderate could work too.

Adam and Eve let their guard down. They disregarded a direct command from God and allowed the words of a beast to entice them to "be like gods".

-A

 

[Gentileone]

I think perhaps we may be defining sin differently.

I define sin as thoughts/lusts or actions conceived out of hostility. Hostility being the opposite of love or a loving attitude. Perhaps hostility is too strong of a word - I suppose enmity, antipathy or inconsiderate could work too.

Adam and Eve let their guard down. They disregarded a direct command from God and allowed the words of a beast to entice them to "be like gods".

-A

Yes sin is from example is lustly thoughts and actions.
Sin is Unbelief aswell.

As far as the beast goes this is where i wanted to get at,
What did Eve do, ok Eve partook of the good and evil tree.
But the tree wasnt a real tree it was spiritual, as was the tree of life.
So how did Eve sin.
It wasnt by bieng enticed by the beast.

What do you think Eve actually did ??
All thoughts are welcome.


God Bless

 

[DrBubbaLove]

http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/pt3sect1chpt1art8.htm
1849 Sin is an offense against reason, truth, and right conscience; it is failure in genuine love for God and neighbor caused by a perverse attachment to certain goods. It wounds the nature of man and injures human solidarity. It has been defined as "an utterance, a deed, or a desire contrary to the eternal law."121

1850 Sin is an offense against God: "Against you, you alone, have I sinned, and done that which is evil in your sight."122 Sin sets itself against God's love for us and turns our hearts away from it. Like the first sin, it is disobedience, a revolt against God through the will to become "like gods,"123 knowing and determining good and evil. Sin is thus "love of oneself even to contempt of God."124 In this proud self-exaltation, sin is diametrically opposed to the obedience of Jesus, which achieves our salvation.125

1851 It is precisely in the Passion, when the mercy of Christ is about to vanquish it, that sin most clearly manifests its violence and its many forms: unbelief, murderous hatred, shunning and mockery by the leaders and the people, Pilate's cowardice and the cruelty of the soldiers, Judas' betrayal—so bitter to Jesus, Peter's denial and the disciples' flight. However, at the very hour of darkness, the hour of the prince of this world,126 the sacrifice of Christ secretly becomes the source from which the forgiveness of our sins will pour forth inexhaustibly.III. The Different Kinds of Sins

1852 There are a great many kinds of sins. Scripture provides several lists of them. The Letter to the Galatians contrasts the works of the flesh with the fruit of the Spirit: "Now the works of the flesh are plain: fornication, impurity, licentiousness, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, anger, selfishness, dissension, factions, envy, drunkenness, carousing, and the like. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God."127

1853 Sins can be distinguished according to their objects, as can every human act; or according to the virtues they oppose, by excess or defect; or according to the commandments they violate. They can also be classed according to whether they concern God, neighbor, or oneself; they can be divided into spiritual and carnal sins, or again as sins in thought, word, deed, or omission. The root of sin is in the heart of man, in his free will, according to the teaching of the Lord: "For out of the heart come evil thoughts, murder, adultery, fornication, theft, false witness, slander. These are what defile a man."128 But in the heart also resides charity, the source of the good and pure works, which sin wounds.

IV. The Gravity of Sin: Mortal and Venial Sin

1854 Sins are rightly evaluated according to their gravity. The distinction between mortal and venial sin, already evident in Scripture,129 became part of the tradition of the Church. It is corroborated by human experience.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Whether or not it was a literal tree and fruit is not really the focus of the story. It was something forbidden by God, and the choice definitely appears to involve their pride, that they could do something forbidden and be like God.

Eve seems to have been tricked and this perhaps mitigates some of her sin, while Adam is just shown choosing to do this and is generally shown bearing the responsibility for this act. If one believes as we do that they were originally created with body in soul in perfect harmony, then the depiction of the act clearly shows an immediate effect on this state. Whatever they did or ate, the result of that acion appears to have immediately created a disunity between thier body and spirit.

Interesting that pride was also the sin of some of the angels, resulting in thier fall.

 

[Gentileone]

Why thanks DrBubbaLove.

Well said and yes interesting pride got some of the angels.
I know very little about what happened to the angels that fell.

Ok
Lets try some thing different here and see if we can find out what Eve and Adams sin was.

Q...
How did the devil get his seed into the human race??
( for weare born of sin)
We know once Eve and Adam ate of the fruit they would surely die.
But how did Cain become evil and Abel didnt?
They were brothers and of the same mother, why was one evil and not the other
and for that matter why not some of the other children Eve bare.

May God bless you all

 

[armothe]

But the tree wasnt a real tree it was spiritual, as was the tree of life. So how did Eve sin. It wasnt by bieng enticed by the beast.

What do you think Eve actually did ??
All thoughts are welcome.

The bible says Eve ate the fruit of the ToK resulting in sin. You seem to be asking for a speculative answer not found in the bible. I am not prepared to make assumptions outside of God's Word at this point.

-A

 

[Gentileone]

The bible says Eve ate the fruit of the ToK resulting in sin. You seem to be asking for a speculative answer not found in the bible. I am not prepared to make assumptions outside of God's Word at this point.

-A

Yes it does actually say what happened but it doesnt spell it out ,its one of those ones that need carefull searching of scriptures.

God Bless

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Q...
How did the devil get his seed into the human race??
( for weare born of sin)
We know once Eve and Adam ate of the fruit they would surely die.

We inherit our fallen nature from Adam and in some sense could see that as the fruit of Satan's efforts. But getting his seed into the human race??? Angels are spirits, the devil is an fallen angel, so also a spirit. Other than God, why should we think an angel could pass seed into the human race?

But how did Cain become evil and Abel didnt?
They were brothers and of the same mother, why was one evil and not the other
and for that matter why not some of the other children Eve bare.

May God bless you all

Do not know that Cain "became" evil and do not believe that any human is all evil. That is like asking why do people do bad things. It is in our nature. The race fell from being "very good" to something less, but unless you accept Calvin's beliefs it was not a total fall. There is good in all. Cain made choices, bad ones apparently. We are not given much detail behind this story, so am not sure what your point is here. Cain commits evil and is punished for it.

 

[Gentileone]

We inherit our fallen nature from Adam and in some sense could see that as the fruit of Satan's efforts. But getting his seed into the human race??? Angels are spirits, the devil is an fallen angel, so also a spirit. Other than God, why should we think an angel could pass seed into the human race?Do not know that Cain "became" evil and do not believe that any human is all evil. That is like asking why do people do bad things. It is in our nature. The race fell from being "very good" to something less, but unless you accept Calvin's beliefs it was not a total fall. There is good in all. Cain made choices, bad ones apparently. We are not given much detail behind this story, so am not sure what your point is here. Cain commits evil and is punished for it.

Thanx DrBubbaLove.

I dont believe that we inherit the 'fallen nature of Adam', when he was made perfect.

Im not sure what Calvin's beliefs are.

Yes God did pass his seed unto Mary.

Angel cant pass there seed, i agree in not a spiritual sence.

The beast was controlled by the the devil and the seed was sown into the human race.
But not Adam's decendants.

Why is not Cain mention in the genealogy?
Cain was not of Adam as far as the genealogy goes.
Is Adam the father of Cain?
If not, who was Cain father?
Adam was made perfect, he was made from God and Adam seed is rightous.

Abel didnt commit sin,Cain did.
Abel new what to offer, a slain lamb typing Christ.
But cain didnt because he was not of our father, otherwise he would have known as did Abel.
Abel is perfect unto God but Cain is evil unto God
But God still loved Cain.
Otherwise God would have killed Cain in a instance.

Therefore we must ask what did Eve do?
Also how did Adam sin so that he would surely die when he ate of the same fruit as Eve.

God Bless

 

[Patristic]

Cain sinned because sin lied in wait for him and Cain allowed it to gain mastery over him. Although God warned Cain, Cain still gave in and allowed sin to conquer his will.

 

[Gentileone]

Cain sinned because sin lied in wait for him and Cain allowed it to gain mastery over him. Although God warned Cain, Cain still gave in and allowed sin to conquer his will.

Interesting, where does that say in the bible that sin lied in wait for him and Cain allowed it to gain mastery over him.?

God Bless

 

[holyrokker]

Genesis 4:6-7 "Then the LORD said to Cain, "Why are you angry? Why is your face downcast? If you do what is right, will you not be accepted? But if you do not do what is right, sin is crouching at your door; it desires to have you, but you must master it."


Question - Did Cain and his brother have "original sin"? Doesn't the doctrine of "original sin" teach that ALL mankind is already born under the mastery of sin?

Why would God speak this way to Cain if Cain were already under the mastery of sin.

One more example of why I reject the doctrine of "original sin"

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Doesn't the doctrine of "original sin" teach that ALL mankind is already born under the mastery of sin?
"

No, not at all. "Mastery of sin" sounds like "total depravity" which was John Calvin's thing. The fallen nature we inherit from Adam is an inclination for evil, not a body that is mastered by sin (totally depraved).


When Adam sinned God punished him and among other things said He would curse Adam's formerly perfect life and all his seed (us). Adam was created immortal, upon sinning and being made unholy his flesh became corrupt and he began to die (just as God said they would if they ate). The were removed from the Garden as part of the punishment, but it is suggested in part to prevent these now unholy creatures from eating something that would make them immortal (again).

 

[holyrokker]

No, not at all. "Mastery of sin" sounds like "total depravity" which was John Calvin's thing. The fallen nature we inherit from Adam is an inclination for evil, not a body that is mastered by sin (totally depraved).


When Adam sinned God punished him and among other things said He would curse Adam's formerly perfect life and all his seed (us). Adam was created immortal, upon sinning and being made unholy his flesh became corrupt and he began to die (just as God said they would if they ate). The were removed from the Garden as part of the punishment, but it is suggested in part to prevent these now unholy creatures from eating something that would make them immortal (again).

Thanks.

I can agree with the "inclination" for evil. In John 3:7 Jesus says "Flesh gives birth to flesh, but spirit gives birth to spirit."

Being born into a body of flesh without the spirit (especially without the Holy Spirit) the natural expectation would be to live to please the flesh. Since the spirit isn't alive, there would be no thought toward living to please the spirit.