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But you believe they are real because you've chosen to believe they are? Or haven't you? You can't say that you can choose to believe they are real while also maintaining that they aren't real. You seem to be proving my point... You can't manufacture a sincere belief in unicorns at will. At best, you can make-believe. Is that how you see religious belief, as make-believe?There! Now I can. Now the question becomes, "Are unicorns real?" There's a Truthful answer for that. No, unicorns aren't real.
Tell me what the truth is, to you, and maybe we can talk.What truth?
Truth can be demonstrated, have at it.
All I can really say is that I've never seen a live one. Only paintings and pictures. All I can say is that there are pictures of unicorns. I know it's a unicorn, why? Because of its characteristics.But you believe they are real because you've chosen to believe they are? Or haven't you? You can't say that you can choose to believe they are real while also maintaining that they aren't real. You seem to be proving my point... You can't manufacture a sincere belief in unicorns at will. At best, you can make-believe. Is that how you see religious belief, as make-believe?
So you understand then why I cannot simply manufacture a sincere belief in the Christian God at will?All I can really say is that I've never seen a live one. Only paintings and pictures. All I can say is that there are pictures of unicorns. I know it's a unicorn, why? Because of its characteristics.
The same would apply to other religions also. Christianity is not special in that regard.I definitely do not see religious belief as fairy tale or make believe. I believe Christianity to be true because under pressure, under threat of death, people refused to give up their faith. We have 2000 years of proof, real deeds of real people in the name of Jesus. Some, of course, did deeds in His name that were not, to say the least, very Christian. We know the faith isn't fairy tale. We have the catacombs, we have the physical proof, and we have belief. That belief is in the real, not in make-believe.
But you don't have to do anything. It's already laid out for you. But you do have a choice to disbelieve.So you understand then why I cannot simply manufacture a sincere belief in the Christian God at will?
Well, in no other religion does any human claim to be God, except Christianity. So then the question becomes "is he God, or is he a liar, or maybe a lunatic?" His rational action disprove the latter. Some episodes in the gospel disprove the middle one, to many.The same would apply to other religions also. Christianity is not special in that regard.
But you don't have to do anything. It's already laid out for you. But you do have a choice to disbelieve.
Well, in no other religion does any human claim to be God, except Christianity.
So then the question becomes "is he God, or is he a liar, or maybe a lunatic?" His rational action disprove the latter. Some episodes in the gospel disprove the middle one, to many.
Emperors are not usually heads of any religion.His point is that you cannot compel yourself to believe in something if you aren't actually convinced. Can you disbelieve in the existence of Australia if you simply try hard enough? Do you believe that atheists are doing this?
Wow, my mind is blown. So apparently many of the emperors throughout history are actually fictional.
Therefore, not a false assertion at all. Jesus claimed to be God, proved it, and his followers were so inspired, they spread the word. One passage from Acts is pretty telling here...The Sanhedrin was trying to figure out how to suppress the Christians. One of their wise elders stood up and said "If this is from God, nothing can stop it, if not from God, it will fail". That's a paraphrase.Also, let's grant this completely false assertion. What does that actually prove about Christianity?
Whatever, but only one is true...the first one.False trichotomy.
Lord, liar, lunatic, or legend.
Mark was not the first gospel. False saying...The gospels didn't grow. They was written later, to different audiences for different reasons. Just because someone is a legend, or something, doesn't mean it, or they, didn't exist, or didn't do what was said of them. Please quote the forgery.Because, you know, Mark was the first gospel, and its last dozen verses depicting the resurrection are a forgery that was added later. Then in the synoptic gospels more material was added despite no new actual discoveries being made about Jesus. And finally in John there is all kinds of new stuff. Legends grow, facts decay. The gospels grew.
If by "laid out" you mean that you have already established that the Christian God exists, then no, it hasn't already been laid out. What you are asking me to do is to feign belief.But you don't have to do anything. It's already laid out for you. But you do have a choice to disbelieve.
Even if that were true (it's not), I don't see why it's significant.Well, in no other religion does any human claim to be God, except Christianity.
Which episodes?So then the question becomes "is he God, or is he a liar, or maybe a lunatic?" His rational action disprove the latter. Some episodes in the gospel disprove the middle one, to many.
Emperors are not usually heads of any religion.
Therefore, not a false assertion at all. Jesus claimed to be God, proved it, and his followers were so inspired, they spread the word.
One passage from Acts is pretty telling here...The Sanhedrin was trying to figure out how to suppress the Christians. One of their wise elders stood up and said "If this is from God, nothing can stop it, if not from God, it will fail". That's a paraphrase.
Whatever, but only one is true...the first one.
Mark was not the first gospel.
False saying...The gospels didn't grow. They was written later, to different audiences for different reasons.
Just because someone is a legend, or something, doesn't mean it, or they, didn't exist, or didn't do what was said of them.
Please quote the forgery.
How is it dodging the obvious? The relationship of Muslims to God is slave/Master. The relationship of Christians to God is children/Father.
It's called 'discernment'. I try not to question God's plan, for it is perfect. I do question it, all too often, but eventually, I let God be God.
Who do you think Santa Claus was modeled after?
How is it wrong?
Now the question becomes, "Are unicorns real?" There's a Truthful answer for that. No, unicorns aren't real.
I believe Christianity to be true because under pressure, under threat of death, people refused to give up their faith.
We have 2000 years of proof, real deeds of real people in the name of Jesus.
Some, of course, did deeds in His name that were not, to say the least, very Christian.
We know the faith isn't fairy tale.
Tell me what the truth is, to you, and maybe we can talk.
I believe Christianity to be true because under pressure, under threat of death, people refused to give up their faith.
You said you were in religious studies, so it's been laid out for you. I'm not asking you to do anything, just to see what's in front of you.If by "laid out" you mean that you have already established that the Christian God exists, then no, it hasn't already been laid out. What you are asking me to do is to feign belief.
Of course, you haven't named one that proves it's not true...Even if that were true (it's not), I don't see why it's significant.
The resurrection, for one. Oh, I know...it was a figment of 500 peoples' imagination...Which episodes?
Right, and after they died, they found out otherwise, and the populace moved on to the next one. And if they didn't like that one, they killed him.What is a religion if not worship of a God? Worship of emperors was mandatory. Here's a depiction of a Jewish king bowing down before an emperor, touching his head to the ground:
In exchange for this display, along with paying tribute to the emperor in the form of goods, he was allowed to live.
Many emperors truly believed they were God on earth. And you can bet that they demanded worship from all of their subjects, including the kings they conquered. Is that not religion?
Certain miracles help prove it. His death and subsequent resurrection nail it down. Oh, I know, it's a fairy tale, to you.Quite a bizarre claim. How did Jesus actually prove he was God? What is the checklist of things one must do to sufficiently prove that oneself is a God, or the God? Are you referring to the miracles he performed? Other Biblical characters performed miracles. Are you claiming that all characters except Jesus performed miracles through God, whereas Jesus performed miracles of his own power? How would you prove that, even if we were both present at a miracle? How would we even know whether Jesus had multiplied fish by his own power or through God's? Or are you referring to Jesus' greatest miracle of all: the resurrection? Because again, among the miracles performed by Jesus were resurrections of other people, and since we cannot know whether he did this himself or beckoned God to resurrect through him, we cannot know whether Jesus raised himself from the dead or if God raised him. In conclusion, this claim is not coherent even if we assume Christianity is true.
Islam started later than Christianity, and fractured right away. Their leader, Mohammed didn't claim to be God.I'm aware of that paraphrase. Do you believe in Islam or Buddhism? Because those are also ancient worldviews which have stood the test of time.
Process of elimination.Even if that's the case, how can you actually know?
Quite untrue. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Augustinian_hypothesisAccording to any scholar, Christian or otherwise, Mark was written first.
Not true.Again, all scholars seem to disagree with you.
Are you known for your opinion?Right, I'm not saying Jesus didn't exist. I'm saying he is a legend, that is, his life and deeds are grossly exaggerated and/or fabricated.
Actually, it's not a forgery. Early citations of it by the Fathers indicate that it was composed by the second century, although vocabulary and style indicate that it was written by someone other than Mark. It is a general resume of the material concerning the appearances of the risen Jesus, reflecting, in particular, traditions found in Lk 24 and Jn 20. This also suggests that Mark didn't come first...It was declared canonical at the Council of Trent. Not a forgery, not that it had false doctrine or information in it, it was an addition, and known not to have been written by Mark, and paralells Luke 24 and John 20. Shrug.Snapshots of biblegateway.com:
I pray.That doesn't answer my question...
How can you know your interpretation is correct, if you cannot verify it?
I didn't threaten anyone, empty or otherwise.Which is completely irrelevant to the point I raised in response to your empty threat.
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