Order and Design

[FEZZILLA]

There you go. You have not seen any empirical proof that convinces YOU. However, you have problems:

1. You know "empirical proof" is not going to happen. Science FALSIFIES, remember?

2. How many creationists say they haven't seen "proof" of transitional fossils even tho we post the data for them again and again?

3. Not all valid evidence is empirical. By limiting yourself to that you are cutting off possible evidence and therefore biasing your conclusions.

Thats what you don't understand. Your foolish way of thinking has totally blinded you!

You must know God.
In order to know God,you must seek Him.
That simple.
I have found God and i know this to be axiomaticly true through the way Jesus has changed my life.Jesus works through me like i've never could be done.
My faith is all i need.
In the end,what do i lose?
I lose nothing and gain nothing even if im wrong.
You on the other hand lose everything and gain nothing.
Beforwe you judge the mind of a christian,look into your own first.

 

[FEZZILLA]

1.)You display little knowledge of what evolutionary theory is, what science is, and the difference between a philosophy and a scientific theory. I find it difficult to believe you study an hour a day, much less 6

2.)I said nothing is between the atoms. Scads of it. Apparently you aren't looking hard enough.

3.)Gosh, I keep forgetting my job is to entertain you! Oh wait, it isn't. Too bad for you, then.

1.)my friend, You see only what you want to see.
2.)And can you describe this "nothing",that is between the adoms?
Also describe how it can create intelligent complex life forms.
3.)You do a great job entertaining me

 

[Arikay]

Fun fun.

I assume you ment Isa 40:22 to show the earth was round.

Please show me How Isa 40:22 says the earth is round?



Speaking of errosion, I have asked for evidence in the other thread, will you give it to me?

1.)You need to start read entire scripts and not just segments.Im telling you to read it on your own and answer your own question. Learn to think and read on your own. Then,when you find out you've misinterpretated the verse then drop that religion(s) class your in.
Read the whole context of the stories of the bible.
2.)Isaiah 40:22;
He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth...

3.)Im looking for the simple truth that backs up your statement.
I will investigate this if i have to further this.And you won't like my investigating power. Im an axiom man. A master in the game of chess. Iv had to prove that the stonewall (chess opening)is a force win for black no matter what white moves. I will get to the root of an issue if you really want to go there.
Erosion by the way,is an axiom fact that proves evolution dead wrong.

 

[FEZZILLA]

Fun fun.

I assume you ment Isa 40:22 to show the earth was round.

1.)Please show me How Isa 40:22 says the earth is round?



2.)Speaking of errosion, I have asked for evidence in the other thread, will you give it to me?

1.)It says it right in the verse!! It gives evidence of a circular planet in space. Plain as DAY.

2.)I have given you proof of erosion on this forum. Your own mind now needs to think on its own and understand what an axiom means. Erosion is a factual topic against evolution. Get used of it. Your going to hear alot more about it in the near future.
Evolution will be taken to court and thrown out of school.

 

[MartinM]

Circles are one dimensional. Try again.

 

[Arikay]

1) Can you give me the definition of a circle?
Can you give me the definition of the Hebrew word that was used for "circle"


2) Really, can you point me to it?

1.)It says it right in the verse!! It gives evidence of a circular planet in space. Plain as DAY.

2.)I have given you proof of erosion on this forum. Your own mind now needs to think on its own and understand what an axiom means. Erosion is a factual topic against evolution. Get used of it. Your going to hear alot more about it in the near future.
Evolution will be taken to court and thrown out of school.

 

[ifriit]

1.)my friend, You see only what you want to see.

I agree, everyone does. That made me decide I only wanted to see what was true.

2.)And can you describe this "nothing",that is between the adoms?
Also describe how it can create intelligent complex life forms.

I would have thought you'd figured out I was tweaking you by now. The only way to describe nothing is by what it is not. If it's something, then it's not nothing.

However, no one here believes nothing creates life, intelligent, complex, or otherwise. If you'd prefer to talk about evolutionary theory, we could do that.

 

[notto]

How to Tell a Witch...
Villager: We have found a witch, may we burn her?
Crowd: BURN!! BUUUURN HER!
Bedevere: But how do you *know* she is a witch?
Villager: She looks like one!
Other Villagers: Yeah! She looks like one!!!
Bedevere: Bring her forward.

(a young woman is pushed through the crowd of villagers to the platform. She is dressed all in black, has a carrot tied around her face on top of her nose, and a black paper hat on her head. She talks funny because her nose is closed by the carrot.)
Witch: I'm not a witch, I'm not a witch!
Bedevere: Er,...but you are dressed as one.
Witch: THEY dressed me up like this.
Villagers: No! nooo! We didn't! We didn't!
Witch: And this isn't my nose, it's a false one!

(Bedevere lifts up the carrot to reveal the woman's real nose, which is in
fact rather small.)

Bedevere: Well?
One Villager: Well, we did do the nose.
Bedevere: The nose?
Villager: And the Hat. But she's a witch!
Villagers: Yeah! Burn her! Burn! Burn her!
B: Did you dress her up like this?
Villagers: NO! No, no, no, no, no, no...
One Villager: yes.
Villagers: yes. yes. yes. A bit. yes. a bit. a bit.
Another Villager: (hopefully) She has got a wart...
B: What makes you think she is a witch?
Villager: Well, She turned me into a newt!!

(pause)

Bedevere: a newt?

(long pause)

Villager: I got better...
Villagers: BURN HER anyway! BURN! BURN! BURN HER!
B: Quiet, quiet, quiet, QUIET! There are ways of *telling* whether she is a witch!
Villagers: Are there? What? Tell us, then! Tell us!
B: Tell me. What do you do with witches?
V: BUUUURN!!!!! BUUUUUURRRRNN!!!!! You BURN them!!!! BURN!!
B: And what do you burn apart from witches?
Villager: More Witches!
Other Villager: Wood.
B: So. Why do witches burn?

(long silence)
(shuffling of feet by the villagers)

Villager: (tentatively) Because they're made of.....wood?
B: Goooood!
Other Villagers: oh yeah... oh....
B: So. How do we tell whether she is made of wood?
One Villager: Build a bridge out of 'er!
B: Aah. But can you not also make bridges out of stone?
Villagers: oh yeah. oh. umm...
B: Does wood sink in water?
One Villager: No! No, no, it floats!
Other Villager: Throw her into the pond!
Villagers: yaaaaaa!

(when order is restored)

B: What also floats in water?
Villager: Bread!
Another Villager: Apples!
Another Villager: Uh...very small rocks!
Another Villager: Cider!
Another Villager: Uh...great gravy!
Another Villager: Cherries!
Another Villager: Mud!
Another Villager: Churches! Churches!
Another Villager: Lead! Lead!
King Arthur: A Duck!
Villagers: (in amazement) ooooooh!
B: exACTly!
B: (to a villager) So, *logically*...

Villager: (very slowly, with pauses between each word) If...she...weighs the same as a duck......she's made of wood.
B: and therefore...

(pause)

Villager: A Witch!
All Villagers: A WITCH!

(they do consequently weigh her across from a duck on Bedevere's largest scale, and she does indeed weigh the same as the duck.)
Witch: It's a fair cop.

Copyright Monty Python , from Monty Python's The Holy Grail.

 

[goat37]

Circles are one dimensional. Try again.

Uhm... circles are two-dimensional.

 

[MartinM]

No, disks are 2D. The circle is 1D. Look at the equation for a circle:

x^2 + y^2 = R^2

where R is the radius, and the centre of the circle is taken as the origin. For a given value of R, there is only one free parameter, which can be taken as either x or y. The other variable is fixed by the above constraint. Hence, 1D.

 

[goat37]

well look at that, you learn something new everyday.

Thanks for clearing that up. (seriously)

 

[Arikay]

so,
A filled in circle (disk) is 2d.
and a circle is 1d.

No where near a sphere or ball.

 

[FEZZILLA]

Circles are one dimensional. Try again.

You will say about anything to twist and pervert the truth your own way wouldn't ya.
The earth is round. By reading your post i can see that none of you knew that. It is not flat! Nor is it any other shape. It is round;meaning-circular.

Evolution is the most arrogant religion i've ever known. You clain to be science. I say you use science as a decoy/cover up for you bias point of view based strictly off of philosophy.
YES! Philosophy!
Sence science is the non-bias quest for axiom proof; Truth and understanding truth.
Evolutionist claim they have scientific proof,proving the orgins of the earth.universe and man.
I have yet to see any proof or axioms backing up your claim.
In the end,its just your philosophical belief,just like my belief in God.
We both take our faith seriously and full heartedly believe our philosophies.
Since you can't prove evolution,then it is philosophy-religion.
there is no more need to even debate this topic anymore.
Your religion (Evolution) doesn't even explain the orgin of the cosmos.
The book of Genesis does!
You have no argument so give up tying unless you can provide axiom proof the evolution happened.
this proof would explain not only the orgins of man,but the infinite biginning of how nothing produce and intelligent something. this evolution would axiomaticly prove every step of the evolutionary timeline.
Evolution is a long way from that proof!
Evolution is losing to a bunch of low paid,unequiped freedom fighters!
We want religious freedom again and academics tought in schools.
Evolution is not academic and therefore serves no purpose in the truth of science. Evolution is a perversion of reality. A brainwashing method used by secular humanist to brain wash people into communism (Humanist Manifesto 1&2,by Paul Kurtz).
Evolution still has money! and lots of it. This money is used against the opposition.To prevent other views from forming or getting deserved acknowledgment.Science is monopolize and brain washed by circular reasonist. A More Fascist view of science if you really think of it.
Evolution has been prove wrong time and time again,yet they still do not understand.
What if you saw Jesus coming in the clouds today,would you understand then?
why are you so foolish?
You evolutionist call us Christians and Jews "the weak", ingnorant,feeble minded ect., yet have you ever,just ever,considered yourself a bias bigot? An arrogant snob? A man who thinks Hes a god over the weak feeble mind majority?
Why don't you just take some time out of every day and read the bible non-biasly(open mindedly)and form and opinion from there. Don't let some arrogant professor at some liberal university tell you that he personally knows the bible is wrong.
Think! F-ing think on your own!
Read! learn! study!
Excuse my french,but i can't fathom the thought of not forming my own opinion based on many different resourses. I was never forced to believe in either evolution or creation. I made my own choice based off of knowledgable facts and common sense.
Im so sick of how evolutionist ack like their the master race of natural selection! You all think you know 85-90% of all world knowledge and soon your going to evolve into pure energy. Get it out of your head! It will never happen. There is no proven evidence of any missing link so give it up! You come to the Christian forums so you can beat the Christ out of everyone. You think in your heart that you're helping us beat the Christian addiction. Well i think you should all be more humble! You can't prove your faith so you've won nothing. In the end,your waisting your time.The bible has much more evidence supporting it than evolution. In fact,evolution doesn't have much. You deny every bible verse,twisting it so that it may not be a threat to your belief system. Why are you so scared? Jesus should be good news to you! If your going to place your life wager on the 50% odds that evolution is right,why don't you just wage yourself on the 50% odds that you can have eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord and savior! There both based on unseen-unproven faith; yet one has the element of eternal death (the nothingness); and the other has eternal life and happiness both here on earth and in the next heaven and earth!
Why play these silly games with science. In a sly way you try and fool people saying that a circle isn't round. Do you believe in a sqare circle?
I don't.
Do you believe 2x2=4? I do.
It is not the philosophy of 2x2=4; nor is it the theory of 2x2=4.
2x2 has the numerical value of 4. 4=2x2 is a fixed axiom.
The law of gravity is based on fixed axioms.
Wheres the axiom of evolution?
You've only theorized with me by stated your opinion which isn't even a strong evolutionary opinion. Yet,i have yet to see an evolutionist answer questions axiomaticly about evolution.
As a Christian i believe in Jesus has ultimate truth. But i cannot prove His existence scientificly. I can provide much evidence that supports at least a 50% chance of Gods existence. It all boils down to my faith.
When are you just going to admit your just like me in the realm of faith in the unknown/unseen/unproven.
I think you all need to be a little more real in these debates if you want these debates to go any where.
Because right now you're talking alot of utter foolishness.
Dishonest is your motive-so it seems to me.
Evolution has been and always will be an intellectually dishonest religion.

 

[Arikay]

Um, Hi troll, Bye troll. Ignore.

 

[FEZZILLA]

I agree, everyone does. That made me decide I only wanted to see what was true.

You must believe that truth is relitive.
That meaning-Believe what thy will. There is no right or wrong.
Life is a world of Grey-not Black and White.

I differ from you.
Life to me is Black and White!
No grey skies cloud my judgement. I believe in ultimate truth.
Nothing in this world is blury or undefined.

Ya know,Evolution also believe in ultimate truth! they confess this every day. sounds to me that you've become Dogmatic over time-your a religion.

 

[MartinM]

You will say about anything to twist and pervert the truth your own way wouldn't ya

What I said was simple mathematical fact.

The earth is round

I know that.

It is round;meaning-circular

Wrong. You like to talk of axioms and logic. Let's see how well you know them.

All X is Y

What is the converse of that statement?

All X is Y
Z is X
Therefore, X is Y

Valid or invalid?

All X' is Y
Z is Y
Therefore, Z is X'

Valid or invalid?

I won't bother with the rest of your little diatribe, since there was nothing of substance to respond to.

 

[lucaspa]

Talking Points:
1.)Do you realy put your faith in low budget websites?

LOL!! What matters is the DATA and SCHOLARSHIP involved. talkorigins has both. The articles are well researched and the source of the data is always given so I can check it on my own if I choose.

I never bother looking at websites anymore.If the info is not from the top of the science chain than i don't read it.

Fine. The top of the science change are the journals Science, Nature, and Proceedings of the National Academy of Science. Will you read those? If so, I'm more than happy to give you the citations. PNAS articles are free on the web. I'll e-mail you the PDF files of the others if you want.

2.)An Atom is a very little something that we all acknowledge to be there.Are you saying that an atom is an infinite creator?

No, what he is saying is that between the components of the atom, such as between the nucleus and the electrons, there is nothing.

Now, "before" the Big Bang there really was NOTHING. No space, no time, no matter, no energy.

See http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/summary/296/5572/1417 Science May 14, 2002

5.)Im very well read in evolution. It is the philosophy of death.

Are you? Have you read D. Futuyma's Evolutionary Biology? That is the top of the science chain. Or Darwin's Origin of the Species? It's at http://pages.britishlibrary.net/charles.darwin/

 

[FEZZILLA]

1.)No, what he is saying is that between the components of the atom, 2.)such as between the nucleus and the
3.)electrons, there is nothing.

4.)Now, "before" the Big Bang there really was NOTHING. No space, no time, no matter, no energy.

5.)Are you? Have you read D. Futuyma's Evolutionary Biology? That is the top of the science chain. Or Darwin's Origin of the Species? It's at http://pages.britishlibrary.net/charles.darwin/[/QUOTE]



1.)Where did the adoms come from?
2)Where did the nucleus come from?
3.)Where did electrons come from?
4.)God Spoke; And nothing became something and everything around us.
You cannot come up with a better answer than that.
5.)Yes i have read them. I also know the many flaws in evolution teaching.
Ya know,Darwin himself admitted he could be wrong. that in itself is a sign of doubt and weakness.He died agnostic. Does that tell you anything?
6.)Have you ever consider the fact that you could be wrong?


7.)Good debating with you all
i'll be back another time

 

[lucaspa]

Thats what you don't understand. Your foolish way of thinking has totally blinded you!

Fezzilla, I was discussing the flaws of ATHEISM. Not the problems of theism.

Your bias has totally blinded you. You are not even reading what the discussion is about anymore. All you have is a knee-jerk reaction.

You must know God.

Which means you have to have personal experience of deity. Atheists don't. Agnostics don't.

I have found God and i know this to be axiomaticly true through the way Jesus has changed my life.Jesus works through me like i've never could be done.

Good for you. You have your personal experience that convinces YOU that God exists.

However, does God ever tell you exactly HOW He created? Or does God deal with your personal life and you don't get that communication?

Did GOD tell you that evolution was atheism? Or did you pick that up from Carl Baugh? Did God tell you that a literal Genesis was the right interpretation, or did you hear that from a person?

 

[notto]

Ya know,Darwin himself admitted he could be wrong. that in itself is a sign of doubt and weakness.He died agnostic. Does that tell you anything?

That he wasn't an atheist?