Oprah

[gracechick]

But if you can't trust the Bible then where is the hope and how do you base your beliefs??

 

[Ave Maria]

I heard on the news that Oprah, Gates and some other suppossed Bilderbergs had a closed meeting in regards to the spiraling economy. Doesn't that sound odd that the some of the world's richest people hold these meetings and not our government representatives?

Apparently it was by an invitation only given straight to the guest bypassing all other assistants and help staff. So not only were the invitations 007 style, but the meeting was hush hush and completely closed to the press at a University in the president's spacious rooms.

I say if they met anywhere our tax dollars are used we have a right to know what was discussed and why they were so secretive. Seems suspicious to me, but I have not heard of Oprah attending any such meetings till now.

So is she becoming or already is one of those elite power people that the whole world is being forced to endure? I guess we will see.

Do you have a source for this information?

 

[herev]

Matthew, there are originals for the New testament which deal with modern society. As the old law was abolished when Jesus died on the cross. Ever heard of the Deep Sea scrolls?

no, there are no originals left--at all
The Dead Sea Scrolls have nothing to do with the NT at all either-and they are NOT originals either

 

[MorphingDragon]

Do you mean the Dead Sea Scrolls?

Nope, they're not originals.

Yet we claim the Greek Pots to be original. Or Aesops fables to be true. Or Tax laws or... American History, British History. Medievil History... Or that we claim that the hieroglyphics translations to be true.

Need a stronger arguement sorry. You can copy the text out of a book and it will still be original text. It just wont be the original print. (The english language is funny isnt it?)

Theres about 5 books with the dead sea scrolls that are in the Bible. * According to my University's Library. The Book of Isaiah and the Gospel, the Gospel is the one that deals with a lot of issues about life.

 

[gracechick]

Do you have a source for this information?

I heard the original story on a news magazine show. They showed footage of the Univerisity, but couldn't remember which it was where they met. I will look online, but remember you are dealing with very powerful people and some that own the press. They often want stories covered and may have them pulled at will. Here is a start though www.nypost.com/seven/05212009/gossip/pagesix/super_moguls_secret_summit_170255.htm
Only some have actually had their names on the Bilderberg list. The Rockerfellers are and have been an extremely powerful family along with the Rothchilds for generations eventhough they have both contributed money to projects and charities the world over.

 

[Matthewj1985]

Matthew, there are originals for the New testament which deal with modern society. As the old law was abolished when Jesus died on the cross. Ever heard of the Dead Sea scrolls?

If you have originals of the books of the new testaments then you are sitting on a gold mine and need to alert the world to them. Otherwise there is not a single original copy of any of the books of the NT that survive today.

 

[Matthewj1985]

But if you can't trust the Bible then where is the hope and how do you base your beliefs??

On the fact that Jesus was the messiah and died for our sins. I know it seems crazy but much of the Christian world outside the US does not see the bible as a necessary part of Christianity. A critical historical look at the bible shows that it is filled with forgeries and little edits written in by scribes to suite their own purposes.

 

[Candide]

Yet we claim the Greek Pots to be original. Or Aesops fables to be true. Or Tax laws or... American History, British History. Medievil History... Or that we claim that the hieroglyphics translations to be true.

Need a stronger arguement sorry. You can copy the text out of a book and it will still be original text. It just wont be the original print. (The english language is funny isnt it?)

Theres about 5 books with the dead sea scrolls that are in the Bible. * According to my University's Library. The Book of Isaiah and the Gospel, the Gospel is the one that deals with a lot of issues about life.

I don't understand your parallel between Biblical text and Greek pots. They're two completely different things. Concerning Aesop's fables and all the other stuff, yeah, I don't understand why you say they're 'true'. It's not like I'm saying the Bible isn't true...

And no, you're thinking of something different concerning the semantics. The first thing written of something is the original text (commonly called the autograph), and any copies that come after that are just that...copies. They cease to be original. By its very nature, a copy of something can't be an original of that same thing. Unless you're going to argue that it's the original copy of an original, and you can't even make that argument with the manuscripts they have. At the very least, the earliest manuscript we have is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the autograph.

And I'm not arguing that those books aren't in the Dead Sea Scrolls. I'm just arguing that they're not originals. We don't have any originals. That's just plain fact.

 

[MorphingDragon]

I don't understand your parallel between Biblical text and Greek pots. They're two completely different things. Concerning Aesop's fables and all the other stuff, yeah, I don't understand why you say they're 'true'. It's not like I'm saying the Bible isn't true...

And no, you're thinking of something different concerning the semantics. The first thing written of something is the original text (commonly called the autograph), and any copies that come after that are just that...copies. They cease to be original. By its very nature, a copy of something can't be an original of that same thing. Unless you're going to argue that it's the original copy of an original, and you can't even make that argument with the manuscripts they have. At the very least, the earliest manuscript we have is a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy of the autograph.

And I'm not arguing that those books aren't in the Dead Sea Scrolls. I'm just arguing that they're not originals. We don't have any originals. That's just plain fact.

Like I said, the English language has to be one of the worst languages made when it comes to logic holes!!!

Id like to think I was on a Gold mine... (So thats how the school got so rich)

BTW, how did this get from Oprah to discussing ancient texts?

 

[Matthewj1985]

Like I said, the English language has to be one of the worst languages made when it comes to logic holes!!!

Id like to think I was on a Gold mine... (So thats how the school got so rich)

BTW, how did this get from Oprah to discussing ancient texts?

I said that a literal reading of the bible is silly because it is a translation of a translation of a copy of a copy of a copy of a copy............of a copy and you claimed that we had originals of the text. I and another member pointed out that unless you are hiding these originals, no one on the planet has any.

I would still like to know if you have the originals or if you were just making a claim you couldn't support.

 

[Stinker]

Like I said, the English language has to be one of the worst languages made when it comes to logic holes!!!

Id like to think I was on a Gold mine... (So thats how the school got so rich)

BTW, how did this get from Oprah to discussing ancient texts?

I think this thread went from Oprah to discussing ancient texts, because most everyone knows that Oprah has been pushing for her religion over traditional Christianity. If she convinced these others at that 'highest summit meeting' then it just may be in the works.

 

[gracechick]

I've heard her talk constantly about her beliefs and all these newagers who's praises she keeps singing. So is there an actual term for all she preaches about or is it just her own personal brand?
If so she will be very suprised to find that the God of her childhood Is the Real thing while she in her lifetime lead many astray. It is all very sad.

 

[Candide]

How specifically is she leading people astray?

 

[rcorlew]

How specifically is she leading people astray?

John 14:6 Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. -Jesus Christ

“One of the mistakes that human beings make is believing that there is only one way to live,” she said. Instead, “there are many paths to what you call God.” -Oprah Winfrey

That is how she is leading people astray!!

 

[Candide]

...I know many Christians, who live very different lives and kinds of lives. The life of a person following Jesus in India will look vastly different (largely because of the religious context of their culture) than the life of a person following Jesus in China, which will look vastly different than the life of a person following Jesus in America. I don't see what's wrong with that.

 

[rcorlew]

...I know many Christians, who live very different lives and kinds of lives. The life of a person following Jesus in India will look vastly different (largely because of the religious context of their culture) than the life of a person following Jesus in China, which will look vastly different than the life of a person following Jesus in America. I don't see what's wrong with that.

They will look identical my friend otherwise they are not following the One.

Ephesians 4:9-14

But that He went up, what is it except that He also first came down into the lower parts of the earth?

He that came down is the same who also went up above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.

And indeed He gave some to be apostles; and some prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors and teachers;

with a view to the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ,

until we all may come to the unity of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,

so that we may no longer be infants, being blown and carried about by every wind of doctrine, in the sleight of men, in craftiness to the deceit of error,

We are all unified in Christ, we are different parts of the same body, that is the Body of Christ, being prepared to be presented to the Bridegroom free of blemish.

 

[herev]

Yet we claim the Greek Pots to be original. Or Aesops fables to be true. Or Tax laws or... American History, British History. Medievil History... Or that we claim that the hieroglyphics translations to be true.

Need a stronger arguement sorry. You can copy the text out of a book and it will still be original text. It just wont be the original print. (The english language is funny isnt it?)

Theres about 5 books with the dead sea scrolls that are in the Bible. * According to my University's Library. The Book of Isaiah and the Gospel, the Gospel is the one that deals with a lot of issues about life.

I'm sure without reading further that this has already been pointed out, but you should read up a bit on the Dead Sea Scrolls

 

[Candide]

They will look identical my friend otherwise they are not following the One.

Ephesians 4:9-14

But that He went up, what is it except that He also first came down into the lower parts of the earth?

He that came down is the same who also went up above all the heavens, that He might fill all things.

And indeed He gave some to be apostles; and some prophets; and some evangelists; and some pastors and teachers;

with a view to the perfecting of the saints for the work of the ministry, for the building up of the body of Christ,

until we all may come to the unity of the faith and of the full knowledge of the Son of God, to a full-grown man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ,

so that we may no longer be infants, being blown and carried about by every wind of doctrine, in the sleight of men, in craftiness to the deceit of error,

We are all unified in Christ, we are different parts of the same body, that is the Body of Christ, being prepared to be presented to the Bridegroom free of blemish.

Nope...I don't see how that verse supports your point. Indeed, there's many verses from Paul that suggest that living as a Christ-follower looks quite differently depending on what culture you're in ("to a Greek I became a Greek, to the Jews I became a Jew" comes to mind..).

 

[rcorlew]

Yes you are correct in that Paul would appear as a Jew to the Jews, appear as a Greek to the Greeks, but he was in charge of the conversion of those people, not the Pastoring of those people.

If you had to go talk to a group of doctors, chances are that you would not wear a t-shirt and sandals to the meeting, you would not wear a Tuxedo to a football game, that is what Paul is saying.

Once a Hindu or Muslim converts, they will begin to look less and less like the other Hindus or Muslims, and begin to look more and more like Christians.

 

[Candide]

Even if being a Hindu is who they are?

You're suggesting that a Muslim man, living in a Muslim world, surrounded by a Muslim family and Muslim friends, who is trying to follow Jesus, should live a life identical to a high school kid going to private school in the Bible belt? I just don't see the logic behind that.

In my own experience, the Christians that I know in India live lives that are very different than I live, over here in America. Are you saying that one of us is wrong, and one of us is right? How can you tell which? They have Biblical support for their lifestyle, and I have what I believe to be Biblical support for mine. I'm sure that if we were in the same culture, our lives would look more similar, but that's simply not the case.