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I came across this post in another forum site that I participate in.

The reports about rioting and murder in Nigeria related to the Miss World Beauty Pageant bother me, and I'm seeking some clarity.

First, some background: I was already horrified by a news item from Nigeria before the Miss World Pageant came along. Apparently, a young divorcee named Amina Laval was convicted by a Muslim court in Katsina state for bearing a child outside of marriage. According to BBC News, she is to be stoned to death. What are your thoughts about this?

At any rate, it is traditional for the Miss World Beauty Pageant to be hosted in the country of the previous year's winner. Since Miss Nigeria won last year, Nigeria was selected to host the pageant this year. Apparently a segment of the Muslim population objected to the pageant and was vigorously protesting against it. They claimed the pageant promoted "nudity" and "promiscuity". A young Christian female journalist, Isioma Daniel, wrote an editorial about it in the Nigerian newspaper ThisDay on November 16th, stating the following:

"The Muslims thought it was immoral to bring 92 women to Nigeria and ask them to revel in vanity. What would Mohammed think? In all honesty, he would probably have chosen a wife from one of them. The irony is that Algeria, an Islamic country, is one of the countries participating in the contest."

When the editorial was published, Muslim readers found it insulting and "blasphemous". The newspaper published an immediate apology, and Ms. Daniel was pressured to resign. A "fatwa" (religious edict) urging Nigerian Muslims to kill her for writing the article has been issued by authorities in the northern Zamfara state. One Muslim cleric said that "the only way she could save her life would be to convert to Islam". Consequently, Isioma Daniel has fled the country, presumably to the United States. The editor of the newspaper has been arrested and hasn't been seen since. Your thoughts?

In the city of Kaduna in northern Nigeria, Muslim rioters burned over twenty churches, then torched cars and houses. Scores of Christian places of business were razed. Christians counterattacked and the result is that over 200 Nigerians have been killed, some burned alive in gasoline-soaked tires placed around the necks of the victims.

Western media, in reporting the events, used phrases such as "violence broke out" and "sectarian violence erupted". I can't find any published source that directly places blame on THE MUSLIM RIOTERS, and I have a problem with that. What are your thoughts? (For the record, I am not Jewish or Christian or particularly religious at all.)

In my search for additional information, I read articles detailing the dispute between various Muslim factions about the "fatwa" issued against Ms. Daniel. Apparently, some want the death warrant recalled because she apologized, and because she was not a Muslim (this makes me remember author Salmon Rushdie, who received a "fatwa" after publishing his novel The Satanic Verses, a book some Muslims considered blasphemous). But nowhere did I read about official Muslim organizations, like the Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs, condemning the "fatwa" or condemning the murderous actions of the Muslim rioters. Maybe I'm naive -- and if so, please correct me with specific examples -- but I can't conceive of any of the world's other "major" religions refusing to condemn rioting and murder done in the name of that religion. Your thoughts?

In America, we are often told that Islamic extremism exists because of American foreign policy, or because of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict. But when I read of events in Nigeria, I am not sure that contention is accurate. Unless someone can correct me, I believe the rioting and murder in Nigeria by Muslim extremists has nothing to do with America or Israel. Rather, it has everything to do with a strain of Muslim religious intolerance and the lack of courage or conviction -- by the Western media and Muslim clerics -- to confront it directly.

In my mind, the issue isn't a Palestinian state. This cancerous strain of Muslim extremism won't be satisfied until Israel and the United States no longer exist. They won't rest until the entire world is under Islamic control. Your thoughts?

In the city of Kaduna in northern Nigeria, Christians and Muslims reside in policed segregated sections because some Muslims there have attacked the Christians. The media reports that a segment of the Muslim population is pushing the notion that Sharia law (Muslim edicts that prescribe stiff punishments for alcohol consumption and other activities) be applied to all residents, Christian and Muslim alike. The tension there is a volatile powder keg.

Could this be a microcosm of what may happen in other parts of the world? An intolerant, extremist segment of the Muslim religion is making inroads in various places on the map, yet it appears that few people are confronting it. Is it because of political correctness? Fear? What should the rest of the world do about this?

Of course I realize that the vast majority of Muslims are peace-loving, tolerant people. But the question remains: Why are they silent while a malignant strain of extremists hijacks their religion?

I am not a political wacko or a fear-monger, and I try to be open-minded, but I cringe when I think of a world where women are stoned for adultery, where a "fatwa" can be issued even after an apology for a comment not ever intended to be blasphemous, and where an editorial comment in a newspaper can animate offended religious extremists to murder hundreds of innocent people. And to top it off, I especially wince when the media is too cowardly to identify those culpable and when Muslim clerics don't apologize for the violence or condemn the Muslim rioters.

I welcome any comments.

I specifically wanted to comment on this area of the post.

Maybe I'm naive -- and if so, please correct me with specific examples -- but I can't conceive of any of the world's other "major" religions refusing to condemn rioting and murder done in the name of that religion. Your thoughts?

I wasn't sure exactly how to respond. Any ideas or comments I might be able to share?
 

Starscream

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Originally posted by vegan
Muslims are notorious for refusing to criticize violence done in the name of Islam. Look at the deafining silence of Muslims in America post-9/11.

Well, since we are generalizing...

Christians are notorious for painting non-Christians in the worst light possible in the name of Christianity.  Look at all the Muslim-bashing in America post-911.

Now, back to reality...

What are you looking for?  A group of Muslims to come knocking on your door personally apologizing for the terrorists acts?  Since you specifically categorized "Muslims in America" you would do well to check out the Council on American-Islamic Relations:

From their website

We condemn in the strongest terms possible the vicious and cowardly acts of terrorism agaisnt innocent civilians.  We join with all Americans in calling for the swift apprehension and punishment of the perpetrators.  No cause could ever be assisted by such immoral acts.

Quickly following the terrorist attacks I remember seing dozens of interviews on t.v. from American Muslims - each one of them expressing grief and sorrow - I honestly don't know how one could miss it - unless of course you did nothing but listen to the likes of Falwell and Robertson.

I you think the silence in deafening on this topic then perhaps you should invest in hearing aids - but perhaps it is just easier to generalize others?
 
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Starscream

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Originally posted by smurfy2day
Just to but in here....

I think that Christians are among the most prosecuted in this country for going against the grain, and refusing to back down to small minority groups.

Yeah, no kidding, that's how a cocaine-snorting, drunk-driving, Christian male got to be President. :D

Really though, how many Churches were set aflame after 911?  How many Mosques?

How many gays group around a Christian and drag him behind their pickup truck?

How many Chrisitans have their funerals picketed by people holding "God hates Xians" signs?

How many states contain laws denying a Chrisitan from holding office?  How many states contain such laws for atheists?

How many Christians are expelled from state-sponsered organizations such as the BSA for simply being Christian?

If you are going to suggest that Christians are the most prosecuted group in America then I suggest you back up that claim with some hard evidence.

edited to delete an unnnecessary referrence to a past thread (Rule 1) -DJ
 
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Starscream

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Originally posted by smurfy2day
In regards to this hate-filled nasty remark, I will say only one thing: we should support our leader, even if we don't agree with everything he says/does.

Well, I highly doubt many of the Christians here would agree with that sentiment if Clinton was still in charge, but I digress.

In response to your claim about Christians being the "most prosecuted" in this country, please answer these questions:

Really though, how many Churches were set aflame after 911?  How many Mosques?

How many gays group around a Christian and drag him behind their pickup truck?

How many Chrisitans have their funerals picketed by people holding "God hates Xians" signs?

How many states contain laws denying a Chrisitan from holding office?  How many states contain such laws for atheists?

How many Christians are expelled from state-sponsored organizations such as the BSA for simply being Christian?
 
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crazyfingers

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Originally posted by smurfy2day  
I will say only one thing: we should support our leader, even if we don't agree with everything he says/does.

Why? I disagree with almost everything that he does. Why would I possibly want to support him?
 
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Outspoken

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"Look at all the Muslim-bashing in America post-911. "

This is an incorrect statement. Mr Bush himself didn't do this. The bashing came mostly from people without faith from what I understand, at least in my neighborhood :)


"What are you looking for?"

well considering Catholics weren't to blame, a political person was, they have several times came out and appologized for the crusades among other things, though the actions of a political extremist were to blame. Islam usually says acts of terror are wrong, but then turn around and say its okay or opennly Islamic states support them.
 
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vegan

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1. If you wish to bad-mouth christians, why not go to a non-christian page? Makes perfect sense to me.

2. Muslims do anything BUT condemn muslim terrorism. I have heard some secular arab organizations condemn 9-11, but rarely do i hear muslim leaders... religious leaders, condemn attacks on jews in israel, the anti-american/jewish teachings in madrassas, etc.

Remember when some fringe elements of the Pro Life movement were shooting abortion doctors and the Catholic Church came out against such killings? THAT is what I want from Muslim religious leaders, not a door-to-door apology you facetiously suggested. I want to hear the outrage texans expressed when Byrd was dragged behind that pickup. I want to hear the outrage heterosexuals expressed when matthew sheppard was attacked. this is MISSING from the muslim religous community. they have, for YEARS, opposed american policy in the middle east and supported muslim terrorists in israel as "freedom fighters."
 
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Starscream

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Originally posted by vegan
1. If you wish to bad-mouth christians, why not go to a non-christian page? Makes perfect sense to me.

Ummm... hello ... Mc Fly?  Take a closer look at my post...

Well, since we are generalizing...

Christians are notorious for painting non-Christians in the worst light possible in the name of Christianity.  Look at all the Muslim-bashing in America post-911.

Now, back to reality...

It was a farce based on your rude and condescending generalizatoin of Muslims.  Get it?  If that bothers you than one can only wonder why you feel justified in saying such things toward Muslim Americans.  Do unto others?  Naw, not if by "others" you mean "Muslims"... :rolleyes:

For the record (again!) I do not paint all Christians with the same brush nor do I judge the whole of Christianity based on the perceived actions of a violent minority.

2. Muslims do anything BUT condemn muslim terrorism.


That is a lie.  Did you not read my link?  Did you not read what the Council on American-Islamic Relations had to say?

I have heard some secular arab organizations condemn 9-11, but rarely do i hear muslim leaders... religious leaders, condemn attacks on jews in israel, the anti-american/jewish teachings in madrassas, etc.


Just today, the leaders of Saudi Arabia spoke out against the terrorists.  Try [/B][/QUOTE] here.  I have also seen expressed grief from leaders of countries such as UAE in past interviews/articles.  Shortly after 9/11 hundreds of Islam religious leaders got together and condemned the attacks.  I supspect that you are simply not looking hard enough for condemnation - or either you simply wish to see none as it helps feed for bigotry towards Islam.
 
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Starscream

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Just for the record guys, here are some links I've found regarding Islam leaders and their views on terrorism.  It literally took me seconds to find these guys, seconds!  You should be ashamed of yourselves for not doing a least a little research before you start painting 1.2 billion person with such a broad (an highly offensive) brush.

 Together in the fight against terrorism

 American Muslim Leaders Condemn Terrorism

 Condemnations of 9/11 Attack

(from the last article)

[font="verdana, geneva, helvetica"]
Over the past year, numerous criticisms have been made that Muslim leaders and organizations have not been outspoken enough in denouncing the violence and horror of September 11, 2001.  Muslims are constantly perplexed by this accusation, as we have heard nothing but unequivocal and unified condemnations by the leaders of our community, both in the United States and worldwide.  But for some reason, people are not listening.
[/font]

Some people are not listening?  No kidding!  And you guys wonder why there are so many wars amoungst religious groups?
 
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Starscream

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Originally posted by vegan
I am sorry, Saudi Arabia is an upstanding country. I was confused by the beheadings, the restrictions (or attemp at restricting) regarding female U.S. soldiers driving, and other such things.

Please, don't stone me to death or amputate my tongue for my sins.

Yeesh, you are one tough customer aren't you?

Here's my take:  "I am sorry, Christianty is an upstanding religion.  I was confused by the history of violence, the pedophile preists, and other such things."

Don't care for that?  Then why do you think it is fair to generalize others?

This is all besides the point, though.  Who cares what you think of Saudi Arabia?  You venomously lied about not only Islam in general but also about American Muslims, who have had to put up with all kinds of garbage from people like you since 9/11.

I took a mere 20 seconds of my time to find links that dispute your low-blow accusations of others.  This is your opportunity to learn something ... I sincerely hope you don't go on sprouting opinions like this anymore.

Thou shall not bear false witness.
 
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David Gould

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Starscream, I think you have taken that commandment out of context.

If you look very closely, I think you will find it says, "Thou shalt not bear false witness unless it is politically expedient, matches pre conceived ideas, helps build hostility to rival religions or you really feel like it." (the last one usually involves giving a cut to the editor of the Book, so most people prefer to use one of the other three.)
 
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