[Open] Support thread for non-punitive households (Please NO DEBATE)

[JulySheMustFly]

1) How do you handle a situation of danger? - You stop them. My two year old has run out in front of a car. What have I done? I grabbed his arm and brought him back, rather panicked on my part but IMO a smack is not a teaching tool in that situation. He's picked up knives. I don't panic in that situation. I keep my voice even and calm. "Hey, Pirate can you hand mommy that please. I need it. Let's get one that you can use." He has his own plastic knives that work for him without harm. I don't see the point in smacking him to teach him that it could hurt. Instead I see that as setting him up to think I'm were the hurt comes from. It simply doesn't work for us.

2) I suppose this is a similar thing, but there are times when God expects us to obey without question, without explanation - these times are rare but they do occur. I feel its important for children to learn that sometimes they must obey something that seems arbitrary, and that they must obey mum and dad without question, not because I am their parent, but because I love them and want what's best for them. Do you always discuss things with your children or are there times when you 'lay down the law'? - My children are allowed to always question, always ask, always seek understanding. I can't think of a time when I'd ask them to do something that had no explanation. Sure, after they ask they are still expected to do it. Example this morning Bear had to dress warmly to go to a hockey game with her friend. She questioned me. I explained why and we went from there. She wore warm clothing. There are times when I cannot explain at that moment to which I reply "I can't answer that right now. Remind me at (insert a time I know I have free to talk) and I'll answer it with you." They are still expected to do what has been asked of them. For the record, I believe God's ok with us asking Him anything and everything but He will often reply with "I'll tell you later."

3) Finally, why do you let a child have a tantrum without stopping them? How do you teach them to control their unacceptable emotions? - I don't see any emotion as unacceptable. How they are choosing to act on those more intense emotions is different. Each of my children have a "safe" place in the house to explore those emotions. I make a point to acknowledge how they are feeling that time and ask if they want me there or if they want to be alone. If they become aggressive I firmly tell them they do not have permission to hurt me and if that is what they want to do then I'm going to have to walk away because no one has the right to hurt anyone else. I don't feel I've answered that one as fully as I'd like but Bird is asking me to do school with her so I'm off for now.

 

[higgs2]

Good thread. It's nice to know there are others out there who know that discipline and punishment are not the same thing.

 

[heart of peace]

Hello ladies,

I'm looking for any pointers from those with experience in exercising parental authority in a non-punitive way in public settings. Specifically we are discussing a 3 year old who is just starting to learn that there is such a thing as social norms, however, is still far from adhering to these social norms.

Thanks - if I have to hear spank him when he doesn't listen another time, I think I'll scream.....haha

 

[JulySheMustFly]

You always have the authority. How to show that to your child when in public can be challenging and I think it is often dictated by what the specific situation requires. I haven't found a one size fits all non-punitive response for this kind of thing.

 

[homeschoolmama]

I'm really glad I found this thread. I struggle with trying not to be punitive. It's hard because of my kids' issues. One with Asperger's and has her share of self-absorbed moments and meltdowns. The other with ADHD Combined and constantly after torturing her sister, the cats (especially cat #3 we just got 2 weeks ago), and anyone else. I'm open to ideas, etc.

Our home makes the kids on SuperNanny seem tame at times. We're one of the reasons why some won't have kids. We're the argument AGAINST homeschooling (though I wholeheartedly believe it's the best thing for them).

Okay I said a mouthful. I'm open to suggestions.

 

[JulySheMustFly]

I can only comment on the ADHD child. I have a very fierce child myself who tortures her siblings. For us a predictable schedule is very helpful. (I personally hate it but it's part of that dying to self thing for me.) We've also eliminated dairy from her diet. I know that doesn't make a difference fo all kids but for my daughter the difference was significant. Now that she's been without long enough she even acknowledges that she l when she likes how she behaves better when she doesn't have dairy. She feels more in control of her impulses and larger feelings. As for the torturing things we have a standing rule in our home. "You hurt someone. You sit." The kids regulate how long they sit but I and my husband have final say on if they really are ready to get up. Then we also ask them to show the person they've hurt kind hands. That can be a gentle touch on the shoulder a hug whatever as long as it is gentle and the offended party is open to that.


I'm currently having a tough time with my 3 year old and screaming fits. He doesn't get his way and starts yelling very loud. If you touch him he melts into a lump. My back is starting to hurt from trying to move this screaming mass to a safer place to have his feelings.

 

[homeschoolmama]

I'm so sorry you're struggling with your 3 year old! I wish I knew what to say!

 

[Beth1231]

It's so great to see this thread I spend a lot more time at GCM than here, but when I saw this thread I knew I wanted to subscribe to it!

Hubby and I are learning how to parent with gentleness and an understanding about what is developmentally appropriate and what is wishful thinking. Like, we can't say "No" and expect her to stop what she's doing, drop whatever it is and come to us. I'm learning about Get Up Off Your Butt parenting

There was so much hitting in my childhood. We've decided not to go that route at all for many, many reasons. It's nice to see a thread that supports our decisions.

 

[annaapple]

Yup, goyb is great!

http://goybparenting.com/

 

[homeschoolmama]

I checked out that goybparenting site and printed out a number of pages! Thanks so much!

Could I just also say there's a debate about spanking in a polls forum - "Do You Believe In Spanking" and it's gotten pretty nasty. I gotta stay outta there but can't help but voice my opinion. It's starting to make me pretty angry at these people. It's just so sad and upsetting to me. Thanks for letting me vent that.

 

[JulySheMustFly]

GOYP has been so helpful. I've printed off a number of the pages and sent them with my husband. His coworkers were always asking him "How do you and your wife xyz?" when there were struggling with a situation with their kids who were the same age as our oldest. It's made a huge difference with one who is now a friend of his. It is really cool to see how just how you live can effect those around you.

 

[lin1235]

When I first read this thread I thought non-punitive parenting was slightly weird and unlikely to work, now I'm totally in favour! Strange how your parenting changes over time as you learn more, eh?

Anyway, I have a question. Those of you who parent non-punitively but who live among punitive parents (and especially spankers), how do you deal with criticism? How do you deal with comments made in general, e.g. you're having coffee with some friends and someone mentions how she's spanked her 3yo twice today? I'm usually outgoing and talk a lot, but I find I just clam up. I rather change the topic because the few times I've tried to talk about our approach and why we do what we do, I've had such bad reactions that I rather just pass the bean dip and move on.

Anybody deal with this successfully?

I think part of my problem is that we parent non-punitively because it feels right and all the research I've done shows me that punitive parenting is potentially damaging. But trying to put that into words when someone keeps throwing "my parents spanked me and I deserved it and I'm glad they did, it needs to hurt otherwise kids never learn anything" in my face is really difficult.

 

[JulySheMustFly]

I can imagine how hard it is. Actually very few people I know know that we do not spank. They know we do some things differently but ultimately they never question what we do.

If someone had started to talk about the number of times they spanked their child I'd probably ask them what their child did. Then ask something like "have you tried (Insert non-punitive approach)? We've found that really works with (child's name here.)

I don't think I'd approach it with a this is what we've found is right and more healthy for children kind of thing. That would automatically put me on the defensive.

The "and I deserved it" concept really bothers me. I don't know how I'd handle that if it came up.

 

[homeschoolmama]

I would question the "you deserve it" comments parents make. Does God treat us as our sins deserve? If He did, Jesus wouldn't have died for us. My dh has said this many times to the kids and it really gets my heart.

I struggle between consequences and physical punishment. I'm not a spanker, but sometimes it gets hard with my younger daughter, who is very strong-willed and gives me the defiant "you'll see" remarks towards me. Just enough to make anyone blow it. It gets right to your pride. She's very tough to deal with especially in the mornings. I'm also finding that food with colorings in them affect her, so we're cutting them out. It has made a difference and she knows now they do make a difference. (last night they were getting a free cookie at the store and she stopped and got upset when the lady handed her a cookie with M & M's - but when I explained the problem, the lady gave her a different one, no problem)

 

[JulySheMustFly]

I would question the "you deserve it" comments parents make. Does God treat us as our sins deserve? If He did, Jesus wouldn't have died for us. My dh has said this many times to the kids and it really gets my heart.

I struggle between consequences and physical punishment. I'm not a spanker, but sometimes it gets hard with my younger daughter, who is very strong-willed and gives me the defiant "you'll see" remarks towards me. Just enough to make anyone blow it. It gets right to your pride. She's very tough to deal with especially in the mornings. I'm also finding that food with colorings in them affect her, so we're cutting them out. It has made a difference and she knows now they do make a difference. (last night they were getting a free cookie at the store and she stopped and got upset when the lady handed her a cookie with M & M's - but when I explained the problem, the lady gave her a different one, no problem)

I like your view on the "deserve it" statement. I've found that many of the very punitive parents I do know have a significantly different focus to their theology than myself and that focus of their theology is exhibited in their parenting. Just somethign I've found interesting.

We've recently discovered that my oldest reacts to food colorings as well. We dont typically keep foods with additives in the house but great grandma gave my son a box of Cars fruit snacks as part of his b-day gift and to my surprise Pirate wanted to share them with his sisters. Well, Bear was out of wack for a few days. I kept asking her if she had dairy and she was certain she didn't. The fruit snacks were the only thing different in her diet.

 

[homeschoolmama]

I hear you. People focus more on God's judgment, etc. but they don't see how their sins also "deserve" judgment. Sad. I can't go to any of our local conservative churches because of that. I'm not saying all Baptist/ Evangelical/etc. are like this but I'm seeing too much judgment and not enough grace.

And no where in the Bible did I ever see Jesus talk down about children. He welcomed them even when the disciples thought they should be turned away. He is my greatest example of how we should be with children. And as an abuse survivor, it brings me to tears sometimes.

 

[JulySheMustFly]

I love that about Jesus.
"Lent the little children come to me. For the gates of heaven belong to such as these."

 

[jennyren]

I would like to practice this type of parenting but my husband and I totally disagree. Is it ok for him to deal with the kids one way and me another way? We've tried for two years and cannot find a middle ground, although both of us are loving parents, concerned about our children. He is so harsh sometimes that I feel I need to intervene and it ends up being a marriage problem instead of a parenting problem. I tell him I know better because I've taken parenting courses. Of course, there's been no proof that my way produces better behaviour, our kids our equally disruptive in his care or mine. Should we focus less on how to dicipline and more on loving each other? Should I let him continue his parenting style even though I know it could have some very negative effects on our children? They are not in physical danger but he often makes the kids feel like they are bad kids and my daughter often says she is a bad girl. My husband would let me take over the dicipline alltogether if i didn't let so many things slide, but it's not my personality to constatly recognize their faults. In fact I barely notice them at all. And I do need his help because I get overwhelmed, especially in the evenings.

 

[homeschoolmama]

This is a tough question because IMO, both need to agree. Would he agree to some research on the topic. Tell him how much your relationship is important to you and your love for your kids. Would he be willing to read up in this - some good authors: Sally and Clay Clarkson (Clay wrote an excellent on one discipline - you can go to wholeheart.org to find it I just forget the name) and Dr. William Sears has a Discipline Book that is very good as well.

I'm afraid the kids will "love the one and hate the other" and get confused as far as their behavior with both parents if you aren't in some kinda agreement.

In my home, as much as I try to be gentle, my dh is actually better at it than me and the kids favor him over me. (I really try but it gets hard!)

 

[guitarragirl]

Hi, I'm glad you have this thread here. I want so much to be a non punitive disciplining parent, but there are so many bumps in the road for me with this. I was spanked and called stupid idiotic kid(s), etc. My husband was spanked, pinched, and his mom even threw a book at his chest before. I don't know the extent of how far they went with "punishing" their kids.
One of my problems is that my husband turned out pretty great. He's really successful, he's finished his Master's degree, he's responsible, etc. If he had it his way, without my interferance, we would spank, pinch, yell at, and I don't even know what you call it...when you just keep torturing the kids with making them sit there until they answer your questions with the right answer ("do you understand?", "look at me", etc). My husband loves our boys with all of his heart, but he thinks because he turned out good and I turned out pretty good that this is the way to go.
Sometimes I act out of instinct and loose my temper. Last week we were at the store and my two year old threw a tantrum in the parking lot. I was in a hurry, and I was carrying my seven month old, and the 2.5 year old kept falling on the ground. I lost my temper. I picked him up, but I felt like I was pinching his arms while I was picking him up, and I was worried about cars with him in the middle of the parking lot, you know? I was overwhelmed holding the two of them, and almost dropped my older one, because he was fighting me so hard. I took them into the store and put them in the cart...my oldest in the back, but he refused to sit down. Anyway, I took him into the bathroom and spanked his butt a couple of times, but still he refused to sit. I tried to force him to sit, but he kept defiantly standing up. I decided to carry him, but in an uncomfortable way. Finally he calmed down, and I calmed down, and I apologized to him, and explained to him how I lost my temper and how he needs to behave, etc. I know, totally terrible parenting. I was angry at myself for it, but sometimes I don't know what else to do.
When my husband is harping on our toddler, 10 minutes, 15, 20...finally sometimes I feel the need to interject something like "that's enough" or whatever. This is so complicated...hard to figure out what to write next.
I printed out a few pages of this thread and he actually spent time reading it with me last week. He agreed with some. He's been trying to do it a little, but still over does harping on our son..
I better send this before I loose it