Oooh...So irritated

[MoodyBlue]

Sin is sin, regardless of our own opinions and wishes to minimize them.
On CF I am quite surprised to see so many Christians say that what is sin for one is a totally non sinful thing for another to do. THis is not true. I think that if non-believers read those things they will becme confused and deceived as to what sin is and may think it is okay to go ahead and do whatever it is they desire to do, not knowing that it is sin. We could be leading them into sin by saying that it is okay for some people to do that thing, yet not okay for others. It is wrong for us to lead the ignorant into sinning. I so wish that we could agree that sin is sin regardless of our feelings and opinions, which have been moulded by the presence of sin of this fallen world.

There doesn't seem to be any universal agreement on what constitutes a "sin". Drinking alcohol, even in moderation? Eating to the point of gluttony? Listening to secular music? Wearing mixed threads in your clothing? Women speaking in church?

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

 

[Joykins]

2 Timothy 3:16

All Scripture is inspired by God and profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17 so that the man of God may be adequate, equipped for every good work.

That's it, better not sleep with your husband until day 14 of your cycle then

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

my points are in red below:

There doesn't seem to be any universal agreement on what constitutes a "sin".


Drinking alcohol, even in moderation?

being drunk-Ephesians 5:18

Eating to the point of gluttony?

not wise-Proverbs 23:21

Listening to secular music?
what we are to focus on-phil 4:8

Wearing mixed threads in your clothing?
for israel-Leviticus 19:19


Women speaking in church?
context, context, context-1 corinthians 14:34,35

.

 

[Godisgr8r]

Light Bearers
Phil 2
12 Therefore, my beloved, as you have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling; 13 for it is God who works in you both to will and to do for His good pleasure.
14 Do all things without complaining and disputing, 15 that you may become blameless and harmless, children of God without fault in the midst of a crooked and perverse generation, among whom you shine as lights in the world, 16 holding fast the word of life, so that I may rejoice in the day of Christ that I have not run in vain or labored in vain.

The Bible tells us to "work out our own salvation," meaning, I my opinion, that each person has to be accountable to God for what they are or are not convicted of.

There are a lot of women that will not put on a pair of pants, cut their hair, wear jewelry, or wear make-up. Do I have to live by their convictions? I don't think so. Some people won't eat any meat but fish on Friday, does that mean that I can't eat meat on Friday? Yes, there sins that are stated clearly in the Bible, like do not murder, but some things aren't quite as clear. That where we have to pray and ask God to lead us. WE have to work those things for ourselves.

If everything one person considers a sin, is a sin for everyone, there would be no birth control at all. Let alone bc pills. We would just have as many babies as the Lord decided to bless us with.

Our relationship with God is a very personal one. We can't go to heaven or hell for each other, and we can't decide what is a sin for each other either.

We can debate what is, or is not a sin, til Jesus comes back, but the truth of the matter is, we all are individuals with individual convictions, and God is the ultimate judge and will judge us accordingly.

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

my points are in red:

The Bible tells us to "work out our own salvation," meaning, I my opinion, that each person has to be accountable to God for what they are or are not convicted of.

i almost agree with this. yes, we are to work out our own salvation. we are not to judge whether someone is saved or not. Remember, the Philippians did not have the Word of God like we do to refer to when they had questions.

There are a lot of women that will not put on a pair of pants, cut their hair, wear jewelry, or wear make-up. Do I have to live by their convictions?

if you look in the Word and it says "dont wear make-up", you shouldnt wear make up.


If everything one person considers a sin, is a sin for everyone, there would be no birth control at all. Let alone bc pills. We would just have as many babies as the Lord decided to bless us with.

where in the Word does it say not to use birth control methods?


We can debate what is, or is not a sin, til Jesus comes

i believe that Christ did not want His children to argue-that is why we have His Word. His Word and His character is the ultimate judge on whether something is sinful or not. But sin is sin.

 

[wannaberichr]

my points are in red:

It seems as though, even with scripture to back up the comments, you have made up your mind. You asked for other's advice and then you slam them as if you are the only one right. Well, all I can say is, your opinion is just that, yours. And you have every right to it, but so does everyone else. Everyone has to answer to God for themselves.

 

[wannaberichr]

Another thing that puzzles me. Why do you put a dash where the "o" in God belongs in your disclaimer?

 

[wannaberichr]

It seems as though, even with scripture to back up the comments, you have made up your mind. You asked for other's advice and then you slam them as if you are the only one right. Well, all I can say is, your opinion is just that, yours. And you have every right to it, but so does everyone else. Everyone has to answer to God for themselves.

Oops. My bad. I got you mixed up with the OP, but still we do all have opinions. And we have a right to them.

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

It seems as though, even with scripture to back up the comments, you have made up your mind. You asked for other's advice and then you slam them as if you are the only one right. Well, all I can say is, your opinion is just that, yours. And you have every right to it, but so does everyone else. Everyone has to answer to God for themselves.

hmmm...i thought this was a discussion board. im not slamming anyone and i didnt ask for any advice.

and no, if someone puts scripture to back up what they are saying-it is not their opinion-it is Gods.

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

Another thing that puzzles me. Why do you put a dash where the "o" in God belongs in your disclaimer?

in respect to people in the MJ forum i frequent.

 

[Stringaling]

Another thing that puzzles me. Why do you put a dash where the "o" in God belongs in your disclaimer?

The Jews back in the day thought so highly of the name of God that they would not even write it down or speak it so to hold it in a very high place of respect. When they had to, they eliminated the vowels, so as not actually saying the name, but only a word looking similar to it ao as to get the idea across. Some of the messianic jews today practice the same elimination of vowels to respect the name of God.

 

[MoodyBlue]

my points are in red below:



.

I'd be careful about using the word "context" around some areas of CF, when referring to the so-called "sin" of women speaking in church. As for drinking alcohol, I see no prohibitions apart from drunkeness. It is certainly possible to drink alcohol and not get drunk.

 

[Mrs. Enigma]

Wow, you guys are really going at it in here.

 

[Mary_Magdalene]

I'd be careful about using the word "context" around some areas of CF, when referring to the so-called "sin" of women speaking in church. As for drinking alcohol, I see no prohibitions apart from drunkeness. It is certainly possible to drink alcohol and not get drunk.

absolutely agree.

 

[Autumnleaf]

In order for ethics to be discussed, we do need to get into "crazy talk"... Except of course if you consider abortion murder, and then it's not so crazy. Not even so uncommon.

If a husband tells his wife to get an abortion then he tells her to kill someone. I have never heard of a man doing such a thing. I do know a wife who had an abortion without discussing it with her husband and it ended up in divorce because he knew.

 

[Autumnleaf]

Are we really?

If abortion is murder and hormonal birth control is abortifacient, both commonly held positions by CF members, it crossreferences another thread on this forum.

Why would a woman choose to marry a man who demands she use OC's if she wants to trust God in this area? If you buy an apple it is stupid to complain that it doesn't taste like an orange. If you marry a wicked man a wicked man will run the household.

 

[Autumnleaf]

give scripture reference to back this up.

'Wives obey your husbands. Husbands love your wives.' Please quote where you found conditions on such obedience.

 

[Bigun]

Ephesians 5:24 (New International Version)
24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.

It says to submit... not obey.

Submit - To yield, resign, or surrender to power, will, or authority; 1913 Webster

Obey - To give ear to; to execute the commands of; to yield submission to; to comply with the orders of.

Surrendering power and carrying out commands are two different things.

Besides, who's law is more important? God's? Or your husbands?

*EDIT*

This Naves topical index I think sums things up nicely:

Caesar or God

***--->>>>Devotion to God demands a higher allegiance to him than to anything else, but it is not an excuse to avoid our other responsibilities that do not conflict with it.<<<<---***
God's Mission Sometimes Produces Powerful Enemies (22:15-17)
Courageously speaking God's message as Jesus did can yield adversaries among those who suppose themselves his spokespersons. The Herodians (v. 16) were unlikely allies with the Pharisees. Pharisees generally cooperated with the aristocracy only when grave national interests were at stake, providing an essential coalition between populist and institutional leadership (as in Jos. Life 21-22). Here the extreme situation presented by Jesus brings the two groups together (Smallwood 1976:164; Bowker 1973:41; compare Mk 3:6). The coalition hopes to catch Jesus coming or going: either he will support taxes to Rome, undercutting his popular messianic support, or he will challenge taxes, thereby aligning with the views that had sparked a disastrous revolt two decades earlier. In the latter case, the Herodians could charge him with being a revolutionary-hence showing that he should be executed, and executed quickly.
Locally minted copper coins omitted the emperor's portrait due to Jerusalem's sensitivities, but because only the imperial mint could legally produce silver and gold coins, Palestine had many foreign coins in circulation. The silver denarius of Tiberius, including a portrait of his head, minted especially at Lyon, circulated there in this period and is probably in view here (Reicke 1974:137). The coin related directly to pagan Roman religion and the imperial cult in the East: one side bore Caesar's image and the words "Tiberius Caesar, son of the Divine Augustus," while the other side referred to the high priest of Roman religion (Ferguson 1987:70-71). Like it or not, Jews had to use this coin; it was the one required for the poll tax in all provinces (Lane 1974:424).
Jesus Reveals His Opponents' Hypocrisy and Greed (22:19-22)
To render to Caesar what was Caesar's was to return his own coin to him (compare 17:25; Rom 13:6-7; 1 Pet 2:13-14; Jer 26:8-9; 27:6-22; 29:4-9; Ezek 8-9); to render to God what was God's was to render worship to him alone (compare 4:10). Neither the image nor the superscription on coins in common usage could prevent Jewish people's single-minded devotion to God. The appropriate response to living in a society whose beliefs differ from one's own is to critically evaluate and withstand its claims, not to censor such claims from being heard or to boycott all participation in the society.
Further, some suggest that Jesus was challenging the idea that his opponents needed to hold on to the coins at all; why not return them to Caesar? Jerusalemites preferred death to allowing Caesar's image to enter Jerusalem on standards (Jos. Ant. 18.59), yet they carried it in on coins. Those who hated Caesar's image to such an extent would make an exception for coinage only if they valued money too much (W. White 1971:233; Witherington 1990:102). By contrast, surrendering to God what is God's implies the surrender of all one is and possesses (Patte 1987:309-10). In Jesus' teaching elsewhere, possessions have a zero value, and those who seek them are not the simple who trust in God (6:19-34). Rather than compromising his popular support, Jesus ends up embarrassing his challengers; they, not he, are the ones carrying the offensive coin, so scruples against it cannot be their own (Danker 1972:202-3). Thus they rightly earn his derisive title for them: hypocrites (22:18; 6:2; 15:7; 23:13-29; 24:51).

 

[Mrs. Enigma]

OK, now Autumn Leaf has gotten me interested enough to read thru this whole thread (well, most of it).
My 2 cents is this.
My hubby and I would not use birth control pills because they can cause an abortion.
My hubby and I believe that abortion is a sin, and that is one of my main reasons for voting for ertain candidates when I vote for presidents etc.
If my hubby thought birth control pills were great, and I came to him and said that I am concerned that they are gonna cause an abortion, then he would look into the matteer to see whether I was right. He would do almost exactly what Addicted did when his wife came to him about it.
My hubby utterly detests abortion, so he would decide to quit the pills.


But if I had married some other guy who was not very nice, then he might not care. So, here is the deal, I believe that a bc pill could cause an abortion, however that is not the intent of the pill, and it might not ever do that to me. I would not be taking the pill to try to kill my kid. It is supposed to prevent me from ever even getting pregnant.
So, to make it out like I would be the worst Christian on the planet, if I decided to keep taking the pills to submit to the evil guy seems like personal opinion. It is not like the hubby said to go chop up the kids.
Anyhow, even if the guy was not too caring about the issue, I doubt my hubby would keep making me take the pills even if he was a jerk, because if your wife is very submissive and obedient, and does not question you on every little thing, then if she brings something up humbly and submissively, the guy would be apt to sit up and take notice.
Anyhow, I doubt that the guy in the other thread is some awful guy. He is probably just unfamiliar with the issue, or perhaps has read information from an opposing standpoint.

To get all out of wack about it is to say a woman should not obey her hubby (which God commanded her to do), because a little pill may possibly might cause a misscarriage if it malfunctions in preventing a pregnancy, I mean, hey, some women give birth and they got pregnant while on the pill, so the pill did not kill their babies.

But anyway, I don't like birth control pills, and my hubby and I are opposed to personally using them, because there is the slight chance that they could possibly abort a baby.