Only way?

[Just_a_Joe]

I'm one of them

Elaborate, please?

 

[miknik5]

Elaborate, please?

Elaborate?

Suffice it to say that "the wind does go where it listeth" and "this anointing is reall"


It's the very reason why no man will be able to convince us otherwise

We know what we learned of and from whom we learned it


...and it wasn't from a man


(Reference John 3 and 1 John 2)

 

[2PhiloVoid]

Thank you. Makes sense - quite honest. Very vague, though. You're saying we know who's damned for sure, the rest is a big question to us, but not to God. OK. Do you believe that Jesus isn't the only way in the sense that is usually preached in churches? I.e. that unless you hear, repent and believe you're going straight to hell?

Thank you. Makes sense - quite honest. Very vague, though. You're saying we know who's damned for sure, the rest is a big question to us, but not to God. OK. Do you believe that Jesus isn't the only way in the sense that is usually preached in churches? I.e. that unless you hear, repent and believe you're going straight to hell?

I do believe that Jesus is the "Only Way" in the sense that no one's sins are covered by other ideas of god or by other religions: so no belief in Buddha, Confucius, Shinto Nature worship, Taoist philosophy/religion, Islam, or any other native belief will do.

But, what I don't strictly believe is that God necessarily judges specifically according to someone's having clearly heard about Jesus and made a definite decision to "repent and place faith" in Him. I also don't believe in the typical concept of Hell: rather, I lean heavily toward a form of Annihilationism, coupled with a more philosophical understanding about the nature of a place called "Hades," on the one hand, and a state of destruction signified by "Gehenna," on the other.

And yes, you're right about my viewpoint, The BIG QUESTION MARK (?) is vague, as it should be because, ultimately, God will be the Judge. Our job as Christians is to tell people about the Good News of Jesus' first advent (His life, crucifixion, and resurrection) accentuating that grace, mercy, and forgiveness in God is available now if people will turn to Him, leading to eternal life.

That's the short of it, Joe. Thanks for listening ...

2PhiloVoid

 

[Just_a_Joe]

Not following you.

It's easy to say "way". If you explain what it actually means, then we have questions like, how about those who haven't heard about this way if it's subject to hearing and accepting in order to find this way.

 

[Just_a_Joe]

Elaborate?

Suffice it to say that "the wind does go where it listeth" and "this anointing is reall"


It's the very reason why no man will be able to convince us otherwise

We know what we learned of and from whom we learned it


...and it wasn't from a man


(Reference John 3 and 1 John 2)

Hmmmm... Not clear.

 

[miknik5]

I was on maternity leave in the quiet of my own home

I never understood THE GOSPEL. I never could figure out where CHRIST fit in my relationship with THE FSTHER. and the verse, " no one comes to THE FSTHER except through me made no sense to me


But when the "wind" blew in (when GOD chose to reveal HIS SON to me) everything that never made sense in one moment was immediately understood

THE TRUTH is THE TRUTH

 

[miknik5]

I grew up as a Catholic. My parents left my spiritual upbringing to the church leaders but I never understood anything. I did not adopt the traditions of my church but neither did I understand CHRIST and THE MESSAGE of THE CROSS

I wasn't even actively practicing my faith

But my life did slow down. My job was relocating, I wasn't relocating, I was on maternity leave with my third child and on a consultation basis and in the quiet of my home, GOD opened the eyes and ears of my heart to THE TRUTH of THE GOSPEL and the heart rending/knee buckling revelation of how much all were in need of a SAVIOR

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

But when the "wind" blew in (when GOD chose to reveal HIS SON to me) everything that never made sense in one moment was immediately understood

AMEIN AND HALLELUYAH! YES!
Andrew Murray explained this to someone with a lot of questions.
They told him, they wanted the answers to the questions first.....
He told them basically , what's more important - being saved first, or getting answers to the questions .....
they decided then to be saved, and willingly turned to YHWH in Y'SHUA , turned their whole life over to HIM, forever (no turning back, not just for a while, but forever) ....
and they were ASTONISHED ! ---- they said "all of my questions have been answered upon being born again ! " Truly it is so.... Y'SHUA is the answer, the TRUTH, the LIFE, and the WAY. There is no other way...

 

[Just_a_Joe]

I grew up as a Catholic. My parents left my spiritual upbringing to the church leaders but I never understood anything. I did not adopt the traditions of my church but neither did I understand CHRIST and THE MESSAGE of THE CROSS

I wasn't even actively practicing my faith

But my life did slow down. My job was relocating, I wasn't relocating, I was on maternity leave with my third child and on a consultation basis and in the quiet of my home, GOD opened the eyes and ears of my heart to THE TRUTH of THE GOSPEL and the heart rending/knee buckling revelation of how much all were in need of a SAVIOR

OK - thank you for your story. You've heard about Jesus in a conventional way. But my question is about those who have never heard anything. Let's imagine a person in South Africa in 40 A.D.....

 

[miknik5]

So that's my story

 

[miknik5]

OK - thank you for your story. You've heard about Jesus in a conventional way. But my question is about those who have never heard anything. Let's imagine a person in South Africa in 40 A.D.....

HE knows where they are
Don't you worry about it

If they belong to HIM, not one will be lost

 

[ScottA]

Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.

Here is the answer you seek: There are no other people, as you have described it. John 1:18 There is only One begotten of God (whom is Christ).

So, then, those who are not "in Christ", are not begotten - not alive, but are as living dead. This is not life. What we know of the world and of our so-called-life...is...and I quote: "created" (made up) and is a mere "image" of what is true on high. So, in the heavenly realm, as the story goes and as it is written and has been revealed, the fallen are dead already. But Christ whom rose from the dead has invited any and all who believe that He came to save the fallen and the dead, may join Him...and then by being One with Him, shall be raised up the last day.

 

[Just_a_Joe]

Here is the answer you seek: There are no other people, as you have described it. John 1:18 There is only One begotten of God (whom is Christ).

So, then, those who are not "in Christ", are not begotten - not alive, but are as living dead. This is not life. What we know of the world and of our so-called-life...is...and I quote: "created" (made up) and is a mere "image" of what is true on high. So, in the heavenly realm, as the story goes and as it is written and has been revealed, the fallen are dead already. But Christ whom rose from the dead has invited any and all who believe that He came to save the fallen and the dead, may join Him...and then by being One with Him, shall be raised up the last day.

I didn't understand clearly. So those who haven't heard will be given a second chance some time after they die?

 

[ScottA]

I didn't understand clearly. So those who haven't heard will be given a second chance some time after they die?

No. There are those born of the flesh, and there are those born of the spirit of God. Both have received what they are and have in this world as a gift from God. Each is a gift to be received as such. But only those born (again) of the spirit of God shall inherit the eternal spiritual kingdom of God. This - should be sought after. But if it is not in you to do so, then you have lost nothing that you consider of value. Nonetheless, life in the world is also a gift to be thankful for.

 

[miknik5]

Today is the day of salvation.

 

[yeshuaslavejeff]

No one gets any chance after they die, ever.
YHWH knows their heart before they die. It doesn't change after they die.

 

[miknik5]

There are those who have heard HIS VOICE now. These have already passed from death to Life


A time will come when all will hear the voice of the son of GOD and will be raised to be judged according to their works

But those who have a part in the first resurrection those who have already passed from death to LIFE upon whom the second death has no power, these will not fall under condemnation


See John 5

All will die (physically) once but not all will suffer the second death (Spiritual)

 

[Just_a_Joe]

No. There are those born of the flesh, and there are those born of the spirit of God. Both have received what they are and have in this world as a gift from God. Each is a gift to be received as such. But only those born (again) of the spirit of God shall inherit the eternal spiritual kingdom of God. This - should be sought after. But if it is not in you to do so, then you have lost nothing that you consider of value. Nonetheless, life in the world is also a gift to be thankful for.

OK - thank you for explaining further, now I understand. So what is the fate of those who were born of the flesh? Do you believe in literal hell as the place of damnation for eternity? That the souls (minds, personalities) of those spiritually dead people will remain alive or in some form of existence and will endure suffering/torment forever?

 

[Luke17:37]

Hi. Thank you.

I understand your point about all having heard something - yes many people said that and quoted Romans. You say every human being knows there's a God from looking at the observable creation. But it's not the same as hearing the gospel of Jesus, repenting, and believing. That's exactly the point I'm making. One thing to have an excuse due to not knowing or not understanding anything at all, another thing is not to know a particular and specific piece of information, as is the case with the salvation through Jesus as preached in churches.

Yes, but according to God there are no excuses. Because a person can seek God, and if they seek Him with all their heart, I believe He will let them hear the gospel before they die, even if He has to give them a vision or a dream and preach to them Himself. I do encourage you to watch More Than Dreams, which I told you about in my first post to you. I love the film, especially what it shows about God's care for the individual. My favorite sections are Mohammed, Ali, and Dini. These sections are each about 45 minutes long.

Today I read about Zaccheus in Luke 19. Jesus called him by name.

Luke 19:1-10
1 He entered Jericho and was passing through.
2 And there was a man called by the name of Zaccheus; he was a chief tax collector and he was rich.
3 Zaccheus was trying to see who Jesus was, and was unable because of the crowd, for he was small in stature.
4 So he ran on ahead and climbed up into a sycamore tree in order to see Him, for He was about to pass through that way.
5 When Jesus came to the place, He looked up and said to him, “Zaccheus, hurry and come down, for today I must stay at your house.”
6 And he hurried and came down and received Him gladly.
7 When they saw it, they all began to grumble, saying, “He has gone to be the guest of a man who is a sinner.”
8 Zaccheus stopped and said to the Lord, “Behold, Lord, half of my possessions I will give to the poor, and if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I will give back four times as much.”
9 And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham.
10 “For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

 

[Just_a_Joe]

Yes, but according to God there are no excuses. Because a person can seek God, and if they seek Him with all their heart, I believe He will let them hear the gospel before they die, even if He has to give them a vision or a dream and preach to them Himself. I do encourage you to watch More Than Dreams, which I told you about in my first post to you. I love the film, especially what it shows about God's care for the individual. My favorite sections are Mohammed, Ali, and Dini. These sections are each about 45 minutes long.

Today I read about Zaccheus in Luke 19. Jesus called him by name.

Luke 19:1-10
1 He entered Jericho and was passing through.
2 And there was a man called by the name of Zaccheus; he was a chief tax collector and he was rich.
3 Zaccheus was trying to see who Jesus was, and was unable because of the crowd, for he was small in stature.
4 So he ran on ahead and climbed up into a sycamore tree in order to see Him, for He was about to pass through that way.
5 When Jesus came to the place, He looked up and said to him, “Zaccheus, hurry and come down, for today I must stay at your house.”
6 And he hurried and came down and received Him gladly.
7 When they saw it, they all began to grumble, saying, “He has gone to be the guest of a man who is a sinner.”
8 Zaccheus stopped and said to the Lord, “Behold, Lord, half of my possessions I will give to the poor, and if I have defrauded anyone of anything, I will give back four times as much.”
9 And Jesus said to him, “Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham.
10 “For the Son of Man has come to seek and to save that which was lost.”

OK, I understand. Well, it sounds quite nice what you say. But it's just not realistic. According to this belief, nobody's searching today in most of the world and throughout history. If this is how it works, then If you're born in a non-Christian land as opposed to a traditionally Christian land today, or if you were born when Christianity wasn't spread worldwide, then you had so much lower chances of getting saved. Is God racist, so to speak? Giving some people a huge head start and giving others nothing or next to nothing? Hmmm... It's a cruel way to believe.

I can just picture a person in pre-contact North America, or Australia, or Greenland, or a SEA island - sincerely searching and then hopping on a boat off to good old Byzantium or a medieval European Christian kingdom for a message about Christ? Would they be killed first as a savage before told about Jesus?

I don't want to watch those videos, they're too long. I started watching one, but after a couple of minutes I got very bored. Could you tell me the gist of them? Jesus Christ came to all of them in a dream and told the Gospel?