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i guarantee you there will not be one person that will stand before God on day of judgment that can say i was never told... that also defeats the purpose of free will too btw-- we all gotta make that choice-- and like that old RUSH song goes-- if you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice.
& He will always make a way... the rest is up to us.
We do not know exactly what happens to them. The scriptural evidence is, however, that they are lost in their sins...and they do not enter into the afterlife free of sin, I hope we can agree. Why this should affect my life and my relationship with my Savior, I'm not sure, but apparently you think that it should.
there is no catch-- salvation is free for the asking-- no prerequisite-- everyone's approved!Great. This has been said to me so many times already. I get it.
However, this just goes into contradiction with the message and the doctrines presented within Christianity - at least the way I've been hearing them.
Where's the catch, then?
there is no catch-- salvation is free for the asking-- no prerequisite-- everyone's approved!
From our observation that may be true. What about from God's perspective?
Sorry for the piecemeal response but getting to your comments as best I can today.
On the above, the use of words such as inconsistencies and contradictions loom large. Both words are packed with pre-suppositional human understanding of either what we think God should be, or what we want God to be like.
I believe a much better approach to understanding the revelations of God (The Holy Scriptures) is to approach the difficulties we encounter as paradoxes. More specifically the definition of which would be: a seemingly absurd or self-contradictory statement or proposition that when investigated or explained may prove to be well founded or true.
For example, we do see revealed that God will judge and punish transgressors of His Law. However, we do see also revealed "grace and truth came through Jesus Christ." And that God is patient and longsuffering so that none would perish.
I think our human element of being the created being sometimes causes us to approach God's Holiness in a jaded manner. We look for ways to explain how an Aboriginal never contacted by a missionary can be saved; or we fathom that God is some 'big meanie' who creates some for destruction and some for righteousness. How does God reveal His Will towards His creation? He invites us to abundant life:
Isaiah 55: New King James Version (NKJV)
55 “Ho! Everyone who thirsts,
Come to the waters;
And you who have no money,
Come, buy and eat.
Yes, come, buy wine and milk
Without money and without price.
2 Why do you spend money for what is not bread,
And your wages for what does not satisfy?
Listen carefully to Me, and eat what is good,
And let your soul delight itself in abundance.
3 Incline your ear, and come to Me.
Hear, and your soul shall live;
And I will make an everlasting covenant with you—
The sure mercies of David.
4 Indeed I have given him as a witness to the people,
A leader and commander for the people.
5 Surely you shall call a nation you do not know,
And nations who do not know you shall run to you,
Because of the Lord your God,
And the Holy One of Israel;
For He has glorified you.”
6 Seek the Lord while He may be found,
Call upon Him while He is near.
7 Let the wicked forsake his way,
And the unrighteous man his thoughts;
Let him return to the Lord,
And He will have mercy on him;
And to our God,
For He will abundantly pardon.
8 “For My thoughts are not your thoughts,
Nor are your ways My ways,” says the Lord.
9 “For as the heavens are higher than the earth,
So are My ways higher than your ways,
And My thoughts than your thoughts.
10 “For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven,
And do not return there,
But water the earth,
And make it bring forth and bud,
That it may give seed to the sower
And bread to the eater,
11 So shall My word be that goes forth from My mouth;
It shall not return to Me void,
But it shall accomplish what I please,
And it shall prosper in the thing for which I sent it. (NKJV)
I understand Joe...you have a big heart and want everyone to get an equal shot. Everyone to have the knowledge we both have. Can't fault you for that as most of us think like that. We must trust God's ways and thoughts are way better than anything we can fathom. We must trust God is Just. We must trust God's judgment.
Frankly, that is what trust and faith is about. A trust and faith based on what is revealed from God.
Edit: Check this out:
http://www.epm.org/resources/2010/Mar/22/spurgeons-theology-embracing-biblical-paradox/
Yes, these are 2 different interpretations. Well, it doesn't change what concerns me within this topic:
What happens to those who haven't heard? I don't care if the gospel reaches each and single person living at a certain instance, what matters that even if one such person ever existed. And we know that there have been many more than one.
This was about not hearing.
This is a way out and not a real answer. Unless you elaborate what you mean exactly, then it's not helping much.
Thank you. I understand. This is usually an answer given by wise and experienced Christians like aged pastors or priests. Humble and balanced, empathetic at the same time. Great. I enjoyed reading it and thinking about it - the way you see it... I respect it very much.
However, and I am being honest - I see the Bible differently. I can't help it. I see it as a patchwork of different ideas, thus the contradictions. Not that those are malignant contradictions. Considering how Bible came into being, it couldn't turn out to be any different, I think.
And so, the way how certain select verses are used and not whole doctrines, I don;t like it, if you would understand what I mean. I love the verses - some of them contain absolutely beautiful and profound ideas, so poetic. Eloquent writers for sure. Timeless. But, it is not the writers but teachers of faith who use the Bible as a go-to book for their doctrines. It's the reality we face.
Yes I implied, what happens to those people who haven't heard? Where are they going? Heaven or hell or it depends?
The point many of us have been trying to make is that God says that doesn't happen. Everyone has heard the "voice" of the creation and know that God exists, and some of His character qualities, because He has made it plain. We also have a conscience (although we can sear it). So the entire world is accountable because they suppress the truth and do not seek God or His righteousness. Please see Romans 1:18-32, Psalms 19:1-4, and Romans 10 (esp. verse 18). If people truly seek God with all their hearts, I'm convinced He'll bring special revelation to them--the gospel from the Bible--so that they might repent and believe and be saved. God is also incredibly patient, because He wants to save as many people as possible (see verses 8 and 9 especially of 2 Peter 3:3-9).
I don't know where in Canada you live, but these are my suggestions to you.
1. Pray for God to give you faith. He is the only one who can. Seek Him with your whole heart. He created you. He loves you. He wouldn't delight in your destruction.
2. If you can, plan a trip down to the Cincinnati area of Northern Kentucky and spend a few days in the Creation Museum (www.creationmuseum.org) and Ark Encounter (www.arkencounter.com), to learn what Christians who believe the Bible believe about the creation and the message of the Bible. It's okay if you're a skeptic; you will be welcomed there. You can also read articles, watch videos, and read books from Answers in Genesis (www.answersingenesis.org) (the organization who created both the Creation Museum and the Ark Encounter)--books such as Begin: A Journey Through Scriptures for Seekers and New Believers (https://answersingenesis.org/store/product/begin/?sku=10-4-371r) or The Lie: Evolution/Millions of Years (https://answersingenesis.org/store/product/lie-25th-anniversary-edition/?sku=10-2-418&).
3. Listen to people's testimonies of how God has changed their life. Here's one from my pastor: https://www.mcleanbible.org/who-we-are/lon-solomon
And here's one of his messages about what it means to be saved: https://www.mcleanbible.org/how-have-new-life
God bless!
In order to quantify you must know all non hearing. Thus why I asked from our perspective or God's?
From the title of your thread:
Only way?
It is as if you are asking if there is another "Way", other than Jesus the Christ, to God the Father.
I first read her diary when I was in sixth grade and immediately developed an interest in her. I've read other books about her and read her never-finished novel. No, she is not the only person I look forward to meeting, Benjamin Franklin, Joan of Arc, Winston Churchill, Teddy Roosevelt, Frank Jack Fletcher are among those I hope to meet.Why Anne Frank? Any other historical figure you'd be interested to meet in the afterlife?
"Way" is a word with a large and vague meaning. When we start really digging, then all these questions come up. Otherwise, anyone can say anything and that's fine.
I'm one of themWe know for a fact that there have been people who haven't heard. Didn't hear the gospel in a conventional way, at least. Not through the modes of communication that are physical.
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