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dqhall

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Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.
A few will be saved:

Matt. 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Jesus was with his disciples in the Garden of Gethsemane, on the Mt. of Olives, the night of his arrest. He was praying, "Not my will, but your will be done." He asked his disciples to pray in order that they might not give in to temptation. (Luke 22).

Whether or not others are going to hell is none of my business. I am supposed to be seeking to do works God may approve of.
 
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miknik5

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So the question basically is

Does God deep fry people who don't know his Son Jesus regardless of the reason why they don't know him

Asked of any other ruler this question would be considered a serious insult to that ruler. Will Obama torture people alive as long as possible because they don't know his family? Is this supposed to be some type of gruesome a joke? I was once a member of a denomination which has God mowing people down at Armageddon and suffering gruesome deaths for an almost identical reason, ignorance of a person deemed essential to salvation. Such individuals enthusiastically preach a concept of God as part of their Good News of the Kingdom. Their enthusiasm is admirable but unfortunately it it is a concept that dishonors him.
In the last days, the false one will actually require men to honor him and if they don't?

Yep he will indeed "deep fry" them
 
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Radrook

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In the last days, the false one will actually require men to honor him and if they don't?

Yep he will indeed "deep fry" them
Your god would do that as you conceive him. I don't conceive the creator that way. So I guess we differ.
 
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Radrook

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A few will be saved:

Matt. 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Jesus was with his disciples in the Garden of Gethsemane, on the Mt. of Olives, the night of his arrest. He was praying, "Not my will, but your will be done." He asked his disciples to pray in order that they might not give in to temptation. (Luke 22).

Whether or not others are going to hell is none of my business. I am supposed to be seeking to do works God may approve of.
Would you dip your children's hands for a few seconds in boiling oil because they didn't know what you were telling them?
 
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Radrook

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A few will be saved:

Matt. 7:13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it. 14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Jesus was with his disciples in the Garden of Gethsemane, on the Mt. of Olives, the night of his arrest. He was praying, "Not my will, but your will be done." He asked his disciples to pray in order that they might not give in to temptation. (Luke 22).

Whether or not others are going to hell is none of my business. I am supposed to be seeking to do works God may approve of.
The Catholic Church no longer holds to the literal fire and Brimstone idea of literal torture of human souls. Instead it interprets it as a distancing from God.


Many other Christians don't recognize the idea as legitimately Christian.


1. Though Gehenna occurs twelve times, the Savior actually used it only on four or five different occasions, the rest being only repetitions. If this is the word, and the revelation of this terrible doctrine is in it, how is it possible that Christ, in a ministry of three years, should use it only four times? Was He faithful to the souls committed to His charge?

2. The Savior and James are the only persons in all the New Testament who use the word. John Baptist, who preached to the most wicked of men, did not use it once. Paul wrote fourteen epistles, and yet never once mentions it. Peter does not name it, nor Jude; and John, who wrote the gospel, three epistles, and the Book of Revelations, never employs it in a single instance. Now if Gehenna or hell really reveals the terrible fact of endless woe, how can we account for this strange silence? How is it possible, if they knew its meaning, and believed it a part of Christ's teaching, that they should not have used it a hundred or a thousand times, instead of never using it at all; especially when we consider the infinite interests involved?

3. The Book of Acts contains the record of the apostolic preaching, and the history of the first planting of the Church among the Jews and Gentiles, and embraces a period of thirty years from the ascension of Christ. In all this history, in all this preaching of the disciples and apostles of Jesus, there is no mention of Gehenna. In thirty years of missionary effort, these men of God, addressing people of all characters and nations, never, under any circumstances, threaten them with the torments of Gehenna, or allude to it in the most distant manner! In the face of such a fact as this, can any man believe that Gehenna signifies endless punishment, and that this is a part of divine revelation, a part of the Gospel message to the world?

These considerations show how impossible it is to establish the doctrine in review on the word Gehenna. All the facts are against the supposition that the term was used by Christ or His disciples in the sense of future endless punishment. There is not the least hint of any such meaning attached to it, nor the slightest preparatory notice that any such new revelation was to be looked for in this old familiar word.

We have now passed in review, as far as our limits will permit, the New Testament doctrine of Hell, and we have not, surely, found it to be the doctrine of endless punishment, but something very wide from this. Let us now turn to other phraseology supposed to embody this thought, and to establish it as a doctrine of divine revelation.

http://www.auburn.edu/~allenkc/tbhell.html
 
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miknik5

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Your god would do that as you conceive him. I don't conceive the creator that way. So I guess we differ.
My GOD will NOT do that sir

That is where the confusion arises


HE will simply "no longer hold back what HE has even from HIS everyday grace upon all HIS CREATION held back

2 Thesselonians 2

When HE who holds back all things is taken out of the way then will evil have its full reign
 
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miknik5

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Would you dip your children's hands for a few seconds in boiling oil because they didn't know what you were telling them?
Can't you make a right judgement between what is wrought in GOD from what isn't?
 
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miknik5

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The Catholic Church no longer holds to the literal fire and Brimstone idea of literal torture of human souls. Instead it interprets it as a distancing from God.


Many other Christians don't recognize the idea as legitimately Christian.
Peace peace

Does it matter what men "hold to"

If it isn't TRUTH, it will NOT hold
 
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Just_a_Joe

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Faith seems to be smoke and mirrors to me, or desperate self deception. How can people be more concerned with something out of their experience entirely instead of worrying about who they really are? How in the world the majority of people got to that state?

Is that what fear of death does to people? How could they fall into this trap of seeing themselves as broken/evil/sinful by default requiring a benevolent salvation?

It's surely ok to believe anything about the afterlife. What about this side of life? Why is it that nobody seems to be as concerned about the only reality we have? It is the absolute nature of things for us, and we brush it off as a neusanse? No wander there is such amount of confusion and strive!
 
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JacksBratt

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Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.
Have you got an acceptable answer yet?
 
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Just_a_Joe

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Have you got an acceptable answer yet?

I haven't had the time to read all of the answers yet. I read carefully, sometimes have to re-read several times to understand due to English not being my native language and having to read and properly understand the verses quoted in their context. Much more thinking and understanding is required than what I had expected, also considering all the different opinions or angles of view. The ideas themselves aren't that complex, I don't think - it's to arrive to seeing in depth and objectivity what is being presented. One thing I think I am benefiting so far is opening so much more to myself both about the Bible and about the variety of viewpoints. I think, in all these years I probably had a simplistic view - is it outdated or is it because I was dealing with the forefront of church's proselytism? This is a great resource, this website. I am really impressed and happy I came across it. Treasure.
 
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Deer

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I wouldn't be surprised if someone mentioned this already, but there are two ways which someone could come to know God - Special Revelation and General Revelation.

Special Revelation is learning about God directly, through the Bible, someone witnessing to you, etc.

General Revelation stems from Romans 1:20, which states,
"For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."

This verse explains clearly why people that haven't heard the name Jesus can obtain Salvation, and can justly be punished for their sins.

I have not studied the Greek of the passage when Jesus says that He is the only way, however He may have been referring to the entirety of God and not just Himself. Or, there is also the possibility He was referring to Him being the perfect sacrifice, the only one to atone for the world's sins.
 
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JacksBratt

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I haven't had the time to read all of the answers yet. I read carefully, sometimes have to re-read several times to understand due to English not being my native language and having to read and understand the verses quoted properly. Much more thinking and understanding is required than what I had expected, also considering all the different opinions or angles of view. The ideas themselves aren't that complex - it's to arrive to seeing in entirety what is being presented.
May I suggest that it is not as complex as one may think.

Everyone will, someday, stand before God to be judged.
If you lived before Christ or in an area where you never heard of the Bible or Christ, you will be judged by your attitude and your heart.
God is just. Every human has "right" and "wrong" programmed into their heart. Even as a child, a young boy knows not to take a toy that is not his. A young girl knows not to tell a lie. We know that killing another human is wrong. All this without even cracking a Bible.

So, when those that never had an opportunity to hear the gospel, or were born before that time, stand before God, their one and only just judge, He will look at their life and determine, with what they knew, the intelligence they were given, the temptations they faced, the reactions they had to events, the remorse they felt or didn't feel the basic attitude and condition of their heart..... whether they are given salvation or not.

Nobody is without excuse. Each has been given enough information for God to know their heart and decide. He is Holy and just, with the total authority to do this.

Those born in a time where the Gospel is available, and have heard the Gospel, have heard of Christ. They have been given the choice.... believe in Christ OR reject Christ. This is the easiest judgment for God. Christ will either intercede for you and tell God that you believed in Him and that you accepted His gift of salvation from the Cross, and God will pardon you OR Christ will simply say "No Father, they rejected my gift" Guilty as charged will be the verdict.
 
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Luke17:37

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Agreed 100%. Faith seems to be smoke and mirrors to me, or desperate self deception. How can people be more concerned with something out of their experience entirely instead of worrying about who they really are? How in the world the majority of people got to that state?

Is that what fear of death does to people? How could they fall into this trap of seeing themselves as broken/evil/sinful by default requiring a benevolent salvation?

It's surely ok to believe anything about the afterlife. What about this side of life? Why is it that nobody seems to be as concerned about the only reality we have? It is the absolute nature of things for us, and we brush it off as a neusanse? No wander there is such amount of confusion and strive!

Faith in Jesus and the authority of Scripture is not self-deception. Without it, you cannot know God. It isn't blind either. There are plenty of reasons to trust God and His written word--for example, historical evidence of the ministry, the death and the resurrection of Jesus; fulfilled prophecy; historical accounts substantiated by archeology (never disputed by actual archeological findings); consistent with testable science; and changed lives.

You can't be saved if you believe the physical world is the only reality, or if you believe you aren't a sinner.
 
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1John2:4

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Hi. I've been asking this question in different threads at this forum, so far two answers received are "I don't know" or "we're not supposed to know".

Jesus in John 14:6 says He is the only way to the Father.

The people who have never heard about Jesus or never heard a proper gospel about Jesus - are they all going to hell? They have no faith in Jesus.
Joe, good question.
According to Revelation 14:5-7 6 Then I saw another angel flying in the midst of heaven, having the everlasting gospel to preach to those who dwell on the earth—to every nation, tribe, tongue, and people— 7 saying with a loud voice, “Fear God and give glory to Him, for the hour of His judgment has come; and worship Him who made heaven and earth, the sea and springs of water.”
I believe we all get a chance :)
 
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