Only Three Are Tormented Eternally

[Hoping2]

Except for all Jews, the majority being unbelievers in Romans 11:26-32

Your insertion of the "post-death" repentance cannot be true. (post #162)
Death, then judgement ! (Heb 9:27)
The unbelievers must become believers, to be judged worthy of eternal life.

That's what I love about theology. There's always a counter until you realize it's all 100% spot on accurate, even when it seems to be counter

OK.

Yes, I am intimately familiar with all the scriptures your positions exempt you from applicability or belief in them that directly counter such claims

I have been exempted from nothing.

IF you are resisting, that means the adversary is busy at work.

The devil won't stop trying to sway the minds of men until all things end.

Evil comes from within. There are no personal exemptions listed by Jesus. Mark 7:21-23, Matt. 15:18-20

Perhaps not in those verses, but the reborn man has the mind of Christ; so no evil will be emanating from the hearts of God's children.

 

[Hoping2]

So when does "death" not mean exactly that? And to destroy, the Greek word means "fully" so we can completely understand Christ's teaching in Matthew 10:28.

I don't see the word "death" in nay of the scrips' of your post..."Genesis 3:15 Romans 16:20; Hebrews 2:14"

And in the OT -we have fires that eventually went out. They were supposed to be "forever" as well but we see that's not the case.

Can you show me one of those instances ?

I think these verse in the OT that tell us exactly what will happen to the wicked is this verse -
Malachi 4:1 "For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the Lord of hosts, that it shall leave then neither root nor branch."
Malachi 4:3 "And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the Lord of hosts."
That's literally what a fire does.

That is what fire will do to the skin and bones of the unrighteous.
The soul, not so much.

That speaks of complete destruction (which is eternal) and coincides once again with Christ's teaching in the NT on the Second Death, yes, death. Not everlasting torment in the Lake of Fire.

Matthew 3:12 "Whose fan is in His hand, and He will thoroughly purge His floor, and gather His wheat into the garner; but He will burn up the chaff with unquenchable fire."

Matthew 10:28 "And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell."

Matthew 7:13 "Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:"

Matthew 7:14 "Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it."

John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."​

2nd Peter is also an example that we look to when it comes to the fate of the wicked

II Peter 2:6 "And turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes condemned them with an overthrow, making them an ensample unto those that after should live ungodly;"

We would have to change many many verses if ECT were to be true. We have to take the Bible as a whole.

Plus we see that death itself is destroyed and the former things are passed away. Christ goes on to state "it is done" and that he makes all things new.

If the unrighteous are willing to gamble on a short sentence for their sins, they will be losers on their bets.

 

[Hoping2]

The Bible says the beast... which is not a literal animal, is in the lake of fire as well. If you believe that is suffering, along with death and Hades, I understand why that is the only response you can muster.

Would you mind clarifying what "that" refers to, in the above sentence ?

What I said isn't "my POV". It is what the Bible teaches. It is God's view.
I agree with God's view, so you are free to disagree.

I disagree with the interpretation you provided.

 

[BelieveItOarKnot]

Your insertion of the "post-death" repentance cannot be true. (post #162)
Death, then judgement ! (Heb 9:27)
The unbelievers must become believers, to be judged worthy of eternal life.

Then your conclusion logically leads to God burning His own children alive forever

Please affirm your conclusion.

OK.

I have been exempted from nothing.

The devil won't stop trying to sway the minds of men until all things end.

Glad you at least see the other party involved within people that your positions have no account for at the detriment of your neighbors instead.

And no, you and i are not exempt either

Perhaps not in those verses, but the reborn man has the mind of Christ; so no evil will be emanating from the hearts of God's children.

As stated repeatedly, evil comes from within. Jesus didn't say we are exempt

We should know we'll enough that the battles actually intensify

 

[JulieB67]

I don't see the word "death" in nay of the scrips' of your post..."Genesis 3:15 Romans 16:20; Hebrews 2:14"

How about most of the Bible? How about one of the most famous verses of all-

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

It does not state the wages of sin is eternal life in hell.


It's always life or death, nothing in between. It's always eternal life or perish. In your first post to me, you responded with this-

I believe in an eternal after life.
Either in heaven or in the lake of fire.

Which is stating you don't believe this next verse that states he that does not believe shall not see "life"

John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."​

And why do you insert a different definition for the word "death". Why do you believe death still means life? And it's not just death we're talking about here but the "second" death. It's as if you're stating you don't believe Christ when he states don't fear the one that can kill our physical body and can do nothing more but fear the one that can destroy (fully in the Greek) both body and soul. Christ is telling us that's what's going to happen.

Can you show me one of those instances ?

Jerusalem has always been used as one example in that it was called "unquenchable fire" when it was destroyed but we know that it indeed did burn out.

Jeremiah 17:27 "But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched."

That is what fire will do to the skin and bones of the unrighteous.
The soul, not so much.

So again, you don't believe Christ when he calls the Lake of Fire the Second Death? Or when he gives the warning to not fear the death of physical body but fear the one that can destroy both body and soul? When we die a physical death it's our soul that's next awaiting judgement.

 

[Hoping2]

Then your conclusion logically leads to God burning His own children alive forever

Not at all, as 1 John 3:10 says that those to be tossed into the lake of fire are the children of the devil.

Please affirm your conclusion.

My conclusion was not your conclusion.

Glad you at least see the other party involved within people that your positions have no account for at the detriment of your neighbors instead.

I don't believe any other party but God's Spirit are in the children of God.
How is that a detriment to others ?

And no, you and i are not exempt either

Every man will be judged for his actions.

As stated repeatedly, evil comes from within. Jesus didn't say we are exempt

As no evil can exist in the children of God, your point is moot.
If evil did exist, that child is not God's child.

We should know we'll enough that the battles actually intensify

They may indeed, but the battles are not with anything within us.
They are with the external forces of the evil one.

 

[Hoping2]

How about most of the Bible? How about one of the most famous verses of all-

Romans 6:23 "For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord

It does not state the wages of sin is eternal life in hell.


It's always life or death, nothing in between. It's always eternal life or perish. In your first post to me, you responded with this-


Which is stating you don't believe this next verse that states he that does not believe shall not see "life"

John 3:36 "He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him."​

And why do you insert a different definition for the word "death". Why do you believe death still means life? And it's not just death we're talking about here but the "second" death. It's as if you're stating you don't believe Christ when he states don't fear the one that can kill our physical body and can do nothing more but fear the one that can destroy (fully in the Greek) both body and soul. Christ is telling us that's what's going to happen.


Jerusalem has always been used as one example in that it was called "unquenchable fire" when it was destroyed but we know that it indeed did burn out.

Jeremiah 17:27 "But if ye will not hearken unto me to hallow the sabbath day, and not to bear a burden, even entering in at the gates of Jerusalem on the sabbath day; then will I kindle a fire in the gates thereof, and it shall devour the palaces of Jerusalem, and it shall not be quenched."

So again, you don't believe Christ when he calls the Lake of Fire the Second Death? Or when he gives the warning to not fear the death of physical body but fear the one that can destroy both body and soul? When we die a physical death it's our soul that's next awaiting judgement.

I believe an eternity in the lake of fire awaits the haters of God.
I will provide no hope for those haters of God to think for a second that their impending horror will ever have an end.

 

[CoreyD]

Would you mind clarifying what "that" refers to, in the above sentence ?

I'm referring to the beast in Revelation 20:10

I disagree with the interpretation you provided.

The only interpretation I provided is the angel's interpretation.
I realize you do disagree with it, for reasons you chose not to explain.

 

[JulieB67]

I believe an eternity in the lake of fire awaits the haters of God.

Even though Christ calls it the "Second Death"?

Question, do you believe someone like Anne Frank who might not have become a Christian will burn for an eternity?

I will provide no hope for those haters of God to think for a second that their impending horror will ever have an end.

It's not about providing hope. It's about believing Christ when he states both body and soul will be destroyed. Body -first death. Soul -second death.

 

[Hoping2]

I'm referring to the beast in Revelation 20:10

You wrote..."The Bible says the beast... which is not a literal animal, is in the lake of fire as well. If you believe that (the beast) is suffering, along with death and Hades, I understand why that is the only response you can muster."
The beast will suffer, and so will all who worship him.
Death and hades won't suffer, as they are places and not beings.

The only interpretation I provided is the angel's interpretation.
I realize you do disagree with it, for reasons you chose not to explain.

It is written..."Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matt 25:45-46)
It is also written..."Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7)

These scriptures by Jesus and Jude make me believe that the sufferers of God's vengeance will rot in the lake of fire forever.

 

[Hoping2]

Even though Christ calls it the "Second Death"?

Yes, even though.

Question, do you believe someone like Anne Frank who might not have become a Christian will burn for an eternity?

If she never converted, she will suffer eternally.

It's not about providing hope. It's about believing Christ when he states both body and soul will be destroyed. Body -first death. Soul -second death.

It is about hope.
False hope that God's punishment will have an end.

 

[JulieB67]

If she never converted, she will suffer eternally.

Yes, even though.

So no comment on the "second" death part, ok...

And wow -because she as a young girl was raised Jewish and because of that she will burn for an eternity.

I guess we're done here.....

 

[trophy33]

If she never converted, she will suffer eternally.

Do you at least work with some possibility for such poor people to convert after death, after they will learn the truth?

 

[Hoping2]

So no comment on the "second" death part, ok...

And wow -because she as a young girl was raised Jewish and because of that she will burn for an eternity.

No.
Only if she never repented of sin, been baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of her past sins, and received the gift of the Holy Ghost, would she suffer eternally.

I guess we're done here.....

If people would just turn from sin (repent of sin), and get baptized (in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins), they could quit worrying about what will happen to the haters of God.

 

[Hoping2]

Do you at least work with some possibility for such poor people to convert after death, after they will learn the truth?

No, I do not.
Man has a lifetime to realize the errors of his way, and change from their status as a sinner to something profitable in the eyes of God.
If he cannot be convinced here, he wouldn't after death either.

 

[CoreyD]

You wrote..."The Bible says the beast... which is not a literal animal, is in the lake of fire as well. If you believe that (the beast) is suffering, along with death and Hades, I understand why that is the only response you can muster."
The beast will suffer, and so will all who worship him.

How does kingdoms suffer?

Death and hades won't suffer, as they are places and not beings.

It sound you you believe you have the authority to decide here.
I don't see why you would believe that, since the angel of the Lord explains what the lake of fire is... as well as the beast.

It is written..."Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal." (Matt 25:45-46)
It is also written..."Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire." (Jude 1:7)

These scriptures by Jesus and Jude make me believe that the sufferers of God's vengeance will rot in the lake of fire forever.

It seems evident to me that for some reason, you believe your belief somehow is more important than an explanation or interpretation of Jesus' angel, on what he himself says.
I don't know why you would hold such a position.

I can only think of one reason why a person would think that... and that is, if the Bible is of no account.
It's not hard to imagine that, since most professing Christianity feel that way. Many do not even believe one should believe everything is the Bible... Go figure.
Is that the reason, where you are concerned?

Why exactly do you dismiss the angel's interpretation, in favor of your interpretation?

 

[Hoping2]

How does kingdoms suffer?

What are you talking about ?

It sound you you believe you have the authority to decide here.

Not at all, but how can a physical, inanimate, place suffer ?

I don't see why you would believe that, since the angel of the Lord explains what the lake of fire is... as well as the beast.

A lake of fire, is a lake of fire.
What description are you using ?

It seems evident to me that for some reason, you believe your belief somehow is more important than an explanation or interpretation of Jesus' angel, on what he himself says.
I don't know why you would hold such a position.

The reason is Matt 25:45-46, and Jude 1:7.

I can only think of one reason why a person would think that... and that is, if the Bible is of no account.

Aren't Matt 25:45-46, and Jude 1:7, biblical ?

It's not hard to imagine that, since most professing Christianity feel that way. Many do not even believe one should believe everything is the Bible... Go figure.
Is that the reason, where you are concerned?
Why exactly do you dismiss the angel's interpretation, in favor of your interpretation?

Please quote what the angel said, and say where that was at.

 

[trophy33]

Man has a lifetime to realize the errors of his way

Many people died young, as children, after birth etc. Many people did not get the opportunity, like people living outside of Christian nations. And many people simply did not obtain everything needed for being saved, like a new heart or the gift of faith.

 

[CoreyD]

No, I do not.
Man has a lifetime to realize the errors of his way, and change from their status as a sinner to something profitable in the eyes of God.
If he cannot be convinced here, he wouldn't after death either.

Jesus said...

The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.​

The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.​

Matthew 12:41, 42

How will persons be raised up, and condemn others if they are not given opportunity to repent?

 

[David Lamb]

Jesus said...

The men of Nineveh will stand up with this generation at the judgment, and will condemn it because they repented at the preaching of Jonah; and behold, something greater than Jonah is here.​

The Queen of the South will rise up with this generation at the judgment and will condemn it, because she came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon; and behold, something greater than Solomon is here.​

Matthew 12:41, 42

How will persons be raised up, and condemn others if they are not given opportunity to repent?

But the men of Nineveh were not given the opportunity to repent after death; Jesus said that they repented at the preaching of Jonah." Similarly, the Queen of the South came from the ends of the earth to hear the wisdom of Solomon while she was alive on earth, not after her death.