Only the elect are saved. Jesus was delivered up for us all who are the elect.

[sdowney717]

You bet some are excluded, since it is the elect of God who will be saved.
The non elect will not be saved.

Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

The elect are like teflon coated, no charges against them will stick or prosper.

They also get to suffer for His name, so being elect is not easy on you.
They are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:

“For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.”[c]

Note that 'us' here shows a truth of who Jesus dies for.
Right in the context of the elect who are justified by God, scripture says

32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things?

He was delivered up for us all, in context, all of His elect.
And God will freely give to us, the elect, all things.
We will inherit the kingdom of God.

The world will not be freely given all things, only the elect will inherit the promises of God and the things of the Spirit.

Only the elect will be counted worthy to be regenerated to partake into the age yet to come.
Since only the elect are those who are justified by God.

34 Jesus answered and said to them, “The sons of this age marry and are given in marriage. 35 But those who are counted worthy to attain that age, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry nor are given in marriage; 36 nor can they die anymore, for they are equal to the angels and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

 

[janxharris]

Perhaps you should preach this as part of the Gospel. After all, you are telling people about who God is and what He has done for mankind. We couldn't expect people to make an informed decision without such knowledge could we?

 

[sdowney717]

Perhaps you should preach this as part of the Gospel. After all, you are telling people about who God is and what He has done for mankind. We couldn't expect people to make an informed decision without such knowledge could we?

Hi, well I am glad you read my post.

Have you considered what the apostles say to the unsaved?

They say things like

'believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you will be saved'

'Repent you therefore and be converted and you will receive the promise of the Holy Spirit'

They deal with it in mostly simple ways. The unsaved dont need to know all the gritty details to make an informed decision. They are saved because God moves on their hearts and they are convicted of their sins. I am not even sure they make an informed decision as it is seems very spontaneous their reactions.

Before Peter even finishes speaking to the gentiles, the Holy Spirit falls on them and they are saved.

All the gospels and letters to churches with detailed explanations are written for the building up of the saints who are saved, not the world which is not saved. The world will never know or understand the meaning of the scriptures, because their minds are blinded and they can not believe because the arm of the Lord has not been revealed to them.

An example of working like that is this

37 But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, 38 that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke:

“Lord, who has believed our report?
And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed?”[f]

Paul in Romans uses this same text.

 

[bling]

So let me try to understand what you are saying with this analogy and correct me if I am wrong:


The father rescues only a few of his children from the burning building even though the father could just as easily rescue all of his children, but intestinally the father leaves some of his children to die in the burning building.

That father would be judged unworthy in most every court in the world, so is that the father you love and hold up as your example of “Love”?

 

[sdowney717]

So let me try to understand what you are saying with this analogy and correct me if I am wrong:


The father rescues only a few of his children from the burning building even though the father could just as easily rescue all of his children, but intestinally the father leaves some of his children to die in the burning building.

That father would be judged unworthy in most every court in the world, so is that the father you love and hold up as your example of “Love”?

Your wrong in the definition of the Father's children. The Father rescues all of His children, because all of His children are the elect. And none of the non elect are His children.

Who are these elect that Jesus tells us about?

18 Then He spoke a parable to them, that men always ought to pray and not lose heart, 2 saying: “There was in a certain city a judge who did not fear God nor regard man. 3 Now there was a widow in that city; and she came to him, saying, ‘Get justice for me from my adversary.’ 4 And he would not for a while; but afterward he said within himself, ‘Though I do not fear God nor regard man, 5 yet because this widow troubles me I will avenge her, lest by her continual coming she weary me.’”

6 Then the Lord said, “Hear what the unjust judge said. 7 And shall God not avenge His own elect who cry out day and night to Him, though He bears long with them? 8 I tell you that He will avenge them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will He really find faith on the earth?”

Jesus compares this evil judge with the true God and says God will avenge His own elect speedily who continually cry out to Him for help.

Only God's children are saved being children of the resurrection, justified by Him and therefore counted worthy to attain to the age to come.

If you are not justified by God in His sight, then you are not saved. If your not saved your not elect.

 

[FreeGrace2]

You bet some are excluded, since it is the elect of God who will be saved.
The non elect will not be saved.

Who shall bring a charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies.

The elect are like teflon coated, no charges against them will stick or prosper.

They also get to suffer for His name, so being elect is not easy on you.
They are accounted as sheep for the slaughter.

If you had just used the more common Biblical description of 'believer', there'd be no problem.

But, being a Calvinist, we know that you view the "non-elect" as those for whom Christ didn't die, which can't be proven from Scripture.

 

[sdowney717]

If you had just used the more common Biblical description of 'believer', there'd be no problem.

But, being a Calvinist, we know that you view the "non-elect" as those for whom Christ didn't die, which can't be proven from Scripture.

Well, elect are the believers, and believers are the elect.
The sheep are the elect believers and He is the Shepherd of the sheep.
Sheep get saved, goats go to hell.
The children of God are the elect.
God saves all His children. He loses not a single one of them except Judas.
There are no non elect who are saved.
Not all people are God's children.
Believers are those who overcome the world.
Yes we differ on aspects of How we get saved, which is what the forum is about.

1 John 5
New King James Version (NKJV)

5 Whoever believes that Jesus is the Christ is born of God, and everyone who loves Him who begot also loves him who is begotten of Him.

2 By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and keep His commandments.

3 For this is the love of God, that we keep His commandments. And His commandments are not burdensome.

4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world—our[a] faith.

5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

No elect will be lost. All the elect are justified by God, God is more powerful than any other force and no one can prevail against them or prevent their justification and glorification. If God justifies then who can condemn? No one, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

If it was any other way to the Father outside of Christ's atoning sacrifice, then my sense is nobody would make it, seeing what a generalized mess people are. Even the wilderness wanderers had Christ alongside them for they all drank from the Spiritual Rock, and that Rock was Christ. Abraham also worshiped Christ and met Him beforehand when God came to talk with Abraham.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Well, elect are the believers, and believers are the elect.
The sheep are the elect believers and He is the Shepherd of the sheep.
Sheep get saved, goats go to hell.
The children of God are the elect.
God saves all His children. He loses not a single one of them except Judas.
There are no non elect who are saved.
Not all people are God's children.
Believers are those who overcome the world.
Yes we differ on aspects of How we get saved, which is what the forum is about.

1 John 5
New King James Version (NKJV)

No elect will be lost. All the elect are justified by God, God is more powerful than any other force and no one can prevail against them or prevent their justification and glorification. If God justifies then who can condemn? No one, there is no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.

If it was any other way to the Father outside of Christ's atoning sacrifice, then my sense is nobody would make it, seeing what a generalized mess people are. Even the wilderness wanderers had Christ alongside them for they all drank from the Spiritual Rock, and that Rock was Christ. Abraham also worshiped Christ and met Him beforehand when God came to talk with Abraham.

The main issue continues to be who ALL Christ died for. Calvinism cannot provide any verse that tells us plainly that He either died ONLY for some, or that He didn't die for everyone.

And there are verses that very plainly state my view; that He died for everyone.

 

[AndOne]

If you had just used the more common Biblical description of 'believer', there'd be no problem.

But, being a Calvinist, we know that you view the "non-elect" as those for whom Christ didn't die, which can't be proven from Scripture.

If it couldn't be proven from scripture I wouldn't believe it.

 

[bling]

Your wrong in the definition of the Father's children. The Father rescues all of His children, because all of His children are the elect. And none of the non elect are His children.

Who are these elect that Jesus tells us about?



Jesus compares this evil judge with the true God and says God will avenge His own elect speedily who continually cry out to Him for help.

Only God's children are saved being children of the resurrection, justified by Him and therefore counted worthy to attain to the age to come.

If you are not justified by God in His sight, then you are not saved. If your not saved your not elect.

That parable does not say anything about who is and who is not a child of God. Those that cry out are the elect.

Paul said: Acts 17: 28 for ‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your poets have said, ‘For we are indeed his offspring.’

29 Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the Deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, a representation by the art and imagination of man.

In this sermon Paul is addressing a large group of nonbelievers and addresses them all as being God’s offspring and in full agreement with one of their pagan poets that would not have been addressing just the elect.

 

[sdowney717]

That parable does not say anything about who is and who is not a child of God. Those that cry out are the elect.

Paul said: Acts 17: 28 for ‘In him we live and move and have our being’; as even some of your poets have said, ‘For we are indeed his offspring.’

29 Being then God’s offspring, we ought not to think that the Deity is like gold, or silver, or stone, a representation by the art and imagination of man.

In this sermon Paul is addressing a large group of nonbelievers and addresses them all as being God’s offspring and in full agreement with one of their pagan poets that would not have been addressing just the elect.

Jesus is the Creator through whom God made the worlds and everything including people.
Paul is using a pagan poet to tell people they are created beings, not simply evolved or something that just naturally happened.
But they are not Christ's children, nor are they of His family until they are given to Christ.

Heb 2

11 For both He who sanctifies and those who are being sanctified are all of one, for which reason He is not ashamed to call them brethren, 12 saying:

“I will declare Your name to My brethren;
In the midst of the assembly I will sing praise to You.”[c]
13 And again:

“I will put My trust in Him.”[d]
And again:

“Here am I and the children whom God has given Me.”[e]

They are children of God whom God gave to Christ.

John 17:6

“I have manifested Your name to the men whom You have given Me out of the world. They were Yours, You gave them to Me, and they have kept Your word.

That they were Gods beforehand points to them being elected before they were born to be given to Christ.

John says some are children of God, some are children of devil.
So you can not say all are children of God can you? That would be a lie.
I dont want to believe a lie.
1 John 3:10
New King James Version (NKJV)

The Imperative of Love

10 In this the children of God and the children of the devil are manifest: Whoever does not practice righteousness is not of God, nor is he who does not love his brother.

Lets keep it simple shall we? Not muddy the water, ruin the stew or loaf that we spiritually eat, with a piece of this, throw in that, put in the leaven of the teaching of men and demon doctrines, contrary to what God says about these things..

Part of 'practice righteousness' is to remain in the truth. Revealed truth and not be led astray following demonic teachings.

 

[FreeGrace2]

If it couldn't be proven from scripture I wouldn't believe it.

Where is the proof that Christ didn't die for everyone??? And please be specific.

The ONLY reason I am convinced that Christ did die for everyone is because of the clear words of Scripture.

 

[bling]

Jesus is the Creator through whom God made the worlds and everything including people.
Paul is using a pagan poet to tell people they are created beings, not simply evolved or something that just naturally happened.
But they are not Christ's children, nor are they of His family until they are given to Christ.

Heb 2


They are children of God whom God gave to Christ.

John 17:6

That they were Gods beforehand points to them being elected before they were born to be given to Christ.

John says some are children of God, some are children of devil.
So you can not say all are children of God can you? That would be a lie.
I dont want to believe a lie.
1 John 3:10
New King James Version (NKJV)


Lets keep it simple shall we? Not muddy the water, ruin the stew or loaf that we spiritually eat, with a piece of this, throw in that, put in the leaven of the teaching of men and demon doctrines, contrary to what God says about these things..

Part of 'practice righteousness' is to remain in the truth. Revealed truth and not be led astray following demonic teachings.

All human beings are more children of God than even children of Adam, since God made each one of us.

The problem is we walk away from God, by joining ourselves to satan and being children of satan, but that is not the way a conceived human starts out. Heb. 3: 4 (For every house is built by someone, but the builder of all things is God.)

And in Heb. 3: 6 And we are his house if we hold fast our confidence and pride in our hope.

The idea is we have to hold fast.

Heb. 3: 12 Take care, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. … that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.

The Hebrew author is addressing Christians (children of God) that can fall away (becoming children of satan).

 

[AndOne]

Where is the proof that Christ didn't die for everyone??? And please be specific.

The ONLY reason I am convinced that Christ did die for everyone is because of the clear words of Scripture.

John 6:44
Jude 1:5

 

[FreeGrace2]

John 6:44
Jude 1:5

Neither verse says that Christ diedn't die for everyone. Please try again.

 

[AndOne]

Neither verse says that Christ diedn't die for everyone. Please try again.

Yes they do - you are being too narrow with your interpretation.

 

[FreeGrace2]

Yes they do - you are being too narrow with your interpretation.

Oh, that's a good one.

How about just taking the words that were written and accept what is said?

I think your "interpretation" goes way beyond what was written.

And neither verse says what you think they say.

So, please try again.

 

[AndOne]

Oh, that's a good one.

How about just taking the words that were written and accept what is said?

I think your "interpretation" goes way beyond what was written.

And neither verse says what you think they say.

So, please try again.

I'm simply reading the verses for what they say. You don't seem to be....

 

[RDKirk]

The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,
3 And sent forth his servants to call them that were bidden to the wedding: and they would not come.
4 Again, he sent forth other servants, saying, Tell them which are bidden, Behold, I have prepared my dinner: my oxen and my fatlings are killed, and all things are ready: come unto the marriage.
5 But they made light of it, and went their ways, one to his farm, another to his merchandise:
6 And the remnant took his servants, and entreated them spitefully, and slew them.
7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.
8 Then saith he to his servants, The wedding is ready, but they which were bidden were not worthy.
9 Go ye therefore into the highways, and as many as ye shall find, bid to the marriage.
10 So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests.


Let's agree that those who who finally enjoyed the wedding are the "elect."


And yet, those who were invited were found ultimately, "not worthy."

But who were those that were originally invited? Were their invitations a sham by the king? Was the king not serious in their invitation? Did the king not really intend that his first invited guests actually attend? Did king lie when he said, "You are invited?"

And would the party have been large enough for everyone?

Did Jesus have enough blood to have covered the entire world, or is His blood limited in capability and His grace in capacity?

 

[sdowney717]

7 But when the king heard thereof, he was wroth: and he sent forth his armies, and destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city.

Jerusalem certainly burned, not one stone left upon another.
Those invited to come to the feast were the Jews, they rejected Christ.

Those on the Highways and byways out in the field are the gentiles.

The man who shows up not properly dressed is like someone in your church who is there for the wrong reasons and they are not saved. They also are not noticed by the other guests until the King shows up. The King knows those who are His.
So today we do not always notice those who are not born again in the church.

Many are called, but few are chosen. The lord saves the remant, among the remnant whom the Lord calls.

Many heard the call out in the field, they were compelled to come.
But it did not register with them on the inside, what this call was about. So perhaps they mocked, ignored, or said we will hear you later on this subject.

So of course not all did respond positively to the message. Only the ones who responded in God given faith were considered worthy, their goodness or badness did not matter, because those who God calls, He justifies and glorifies. He makes them alive even while they are dead in their sins.

Deliverance belongs to the called.

30 “And I will show wonders in the heavens and in the earth:
Blood and fire and pillars of smoke.
31 The sun shall be turned into darkness,
And the moon into blood,
Before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord.
32 And it shall come to pass
That whoever calls on the name of the Lord
Shall be saved.
For in Mount Zion and in Jerusalem there shall be deliverance,
As the Lord has said,
Among the remnant whom the Lord calls.

those whom He predestined, He calls.
He calls us first, then we call on Him and are saved..