Only a loving God would create hell!

[Phantasman]

By the way, Tertullian was also the guy that came up with the term "Trinity," was he wrong about that too? I mean believed in a flat-earth, how do can we trust a flat-earther with something as big as the Most Holy Trinity!?!

Actually, Ignatius mentioned it and Tertullian took it to an extreme. It was a handful of priests who accepted it, and it grew to be accepted in the Nicene Creed. Nothing in the Gospel says that three are equal. God had no beginning, but the son and Holy Spirit were begotten of the Father. They had a beginning. It is a monarchy as the non Canon Gospels say.

Actually, it isn't important what you believe in the grand scheme of things.

 

[Daniel9v9]

I concur with the OP. It's because God is good and loving that He exercises His judgment according to His own righteous nature. For God to punish evil is in itself a good thing.

 

[SkyWriting]

Only that at that moment in time it was so.

Spirits do not age. There is no "time" after this life.
"Eternal" is as close as we can come to describe no time.

 

[Blade]

[QUOTE="There is a hell, and people go there, because they don't love God. If you don't love God, you go to hell! All who go to hell, choose it.[/QUOTE]

A truth in what you speak but.. it should NEVER be spoken so easy. Well ..its not OUR Kids were taking about. I cant even grasp what it must be for our Father in Heaven... the pain of your child.. its as if someone ripped something out of you..the thought of never seeing them again. Were made in HIS image. He made all we see. And hell was never made for man

 

[Aleksandros]

I am not a Universalist - my view on this topic is as of yet unformed, so don't take this as a defense of universalism:

I believe you have gotten a wrong view of Universalism - most universalist arguments are based off the love of God, not His power. That is, Universalists believe that God in His love will correct, through discipline, all rebellious beings, as ultimately Victory belongs to Him - so that in the end sin will not have won in any way, shape, or form.

I.e it is a form of, "With love, conquer your enemies."

I personally like this argument, since it makes sense for a perfect God, but I myself am not a Universalist, at least not yet.

Universalism must always be a hope and not a dogma - it can do a lot of harm in the wrong hands.

 

[RaymondG]

In the beginning God created the Heavens and the Earth. Can you tell me when the hell you talk about was created?

Also...Have you ever felt lead to post a thread about the joys and beauty of Heaven..... Do you feel that the pain and suffering of your hell is a better motivational factor in ones coming to Christ?

 

[aiki]

The longer i think and talk about all this, the more I truly believe so many aspects of the bible were written in unsophisticated ways because people themselves were uneducated and unsophisticated in those times of the bible. That includes heaven being a wonderful physical place where everything is perfect forever, while hell is fire torment and painful. I see explanations like that as an attempt of religous institutions to control people and as being crude.

Religion and thoughts of god should be way more sophisticated than scary stories

Why? Why must God act in a way that appears sophisticated to you? Why is sophistication better than simplicity? I can think of a number of instances in which simplicity is much preferable to complexity and subtlety. Then, too, what appears simple on the surface may be, upon closer inspection, very sophisticated. Night and day seem pretty simple: within a twenty-four hour period, the sun appears and travels through the sky and then it disappears from view and darkness covers the earth. Behind this appearance and disappearance of the sun, however, are a host of factors involving orbits, gravitational forces, the axis and rotation of the earth, the distance, temperature, and size of our sun, and so on. So, don't be too quick to dismiss the Bible's teaching on eternal conscious torment in Hell and eternal joy in God's kingdom as unsophisticated. It seems very likely that you're only judging the surface of things.

 

[Noxot]

i'm a universalist and I don't believe Gods main attribute is power. I think that many authoritarians see Gods main attribute as power. I think many people in hell believe that power is the greatest force in reality.

I get tired of all the people trying to debunk universalism when they don't even seem to understand Gods infinite mercy, wisdom, and beauty. God has always held up to his own standards which is why the gates of the new jerusalem never close.

hell only exist because some souls will it to exist. when they no longer will it to exist God will provide a way. God is everlasting life and hell is the emptiness of God. what is nothing can't win against everything. the people of hell will naturally become jealous of our beauty, they will envy what they do not have and seek to possess it for themselves.

 

[aiki]

The fact is, only a loving God would create hell, because only a loving God would not force Himself on those who do not love Him. Hell is where people go, who don't love God period.

There is a hell, and people go there, because they don't love God. If you don't love God, you go to hell! All who go to hell, choose it.

This is a slippery and peculiar way of avoiding the difficulty of the severity of God's punishment of the wicked. The popular thinking goes: "It's not God's fault we go to Hell, it's ours! We send ourselves to Hell. The door to Hell is locked from the inside." But this isn't what the Bible says. Repeatedly, Scripture talks about Hell as an expression of God's holy, just wrath and as a punishment of the unrepentant wicked, not as God simply letting people go where they want.

Hell does illustrate the holiness, and justness, and, yes, even the love of God. But not, I think, in the way you assert.

In Defense Of The Doctrine Of Eternal, Conscious Torment In Hell. | Christian Forums

 

[1213]

Oblivion is almost worse IMO.

Why do you think so?

If unrighteous living would mean suffering, I think it is better to end it.

 

[Zoii]

Why? Why must God act in a way that appears sophisticated to you? Why is sophistication better than simplicity? I can think of a number of instances in which simplicity is much preferable to complexity and subtlety. Then, too, what appears simple on the surface may be, upon closer inspection, very sophisticated. Night and day seem pretty simple: within a twenty-four hour period, the sun appears and travels through the sky and then it disappears from view and darkness covers the earth. Behind this appearance and disappearance of the sun, however, are a host of factors involving orbits, gravitational forces, the axis and rotation of the earth, the distance, temperature, and size of our sun, and so on. So, don't be too quick to dismiss the Bible's teaching on eternal conscious torment in Hell and eternal joy in God's kingdom as unsophisticated. It seems very likely that you're only judging the surface of things.

I think the way I do because it makes increasing sense to me. I am afraid theres so much I am beginning to see as being irrational. Ive been told that I just have to have faith but thats just not me to ignore what Im analysing.

 

[CrystalDragon]

I think the way I do because it makes increasing sense to me. I am afraid theres so much I am beginning to see as being irrational. Ive been told that I just have to have faith but thats just not me to ignore what Im analysing.

FINALLY someone gets it.

 

[aiki]

I think the way I do because it makes increasing sense to me. I am afraid theres so much I am beginning to see as being irrational. Ive been told that I just have to have faith but thats just not me to ignore what Im analysing.

"What makes sense to me" is a very subjective - and potentially very misleading - tack to take in understanding truth. Is this your basis for what is or isn't irrational? I hope not.

I don't know who told you that you "just have to have faith" and to ignore what you think deserves analyzing, but the Christian faith does not require blind faith or that you cease to think carefully.

www.reasonablefaith.org
www.crossexamined.org
www.rzim.org
www.str.org

 

[aiki]

hell only exist because some souls will it to exist. when they no longer will it to exist God will provide a way. God is everlasting life and hell is the emptiness of God. what is nothing can't win against everything. the people of hell will naturally become jealous of our beauty, they will envy what they do not have and seek to possess it for themselves.

And how do you know any of this?

 

[Noxot]

And how do you know any of this?

Christ in me

 

[aiki]

Christ in me

Oh? And how are you certain it is Christ who has been telling you these things? They certainly don't agree with Scripture.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

The longer i think and talk about all this, the more I truly believe so many aspects of the bible were written in unsophisticated ways because people themselves were uneducated and unsophisticated in those times of the bible. That includes heaven being a wonderful physical place where everything is perfect forever, while hell is fire torment and painful. I see explanations like that as an attempt of religous institutions to control people and as being crude.

Religion and thoughts of god should be way more sophisticated than scary stories

What happens to soul that does not love God when he/she dies? Does God drag that soul kicking screaming to Heaven where has to stay with Him for eternity? If so, is that a loving God?

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

But couldn't Hell be another situation other than burning torture for all eternity? That's not love. That's malevolent and sadistic.

Try listening to this podcast: 013: The Question of Hell with Dr. Michael Healy - Matthew Leonard

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

Two things I don't get, one, I would bet a majority of non Christians don't believe in God and reject Him, they just haven't been offered a chance to know Him...in other words, they don't choose to reject God, they simply haven't been given a gift of faith.
Two, we are taught that being righteous isn't enough to guarantee salvation. So, the idea that everyone in Hell is unrighteous can't be correct.

I'm not exactly sure what you mean by the second question, could you please clarify it?

In regards to the first question, as the Greek philosophers have demonstrated, it is within human reason to be able to know God, and God gives everyone supernatural faith and sufficient grace in order to embrace Him. Thus every person has the moral responsibility to know and love God, just as person suffering from thirst has a personal responsibility to find drink.

 

[JesusLovesOurLady]

Those who reject life, dies. Jesus whole message was to give life and in abundance. People may believe that the world is reality, and the spiritual life an illusion. A Christian learns (through truth) that we are in an illusion and spirit is reality. I do not concern myself where others wind up. And I don't tell others where they will wind up. I follow the hope and faith where Jesus says I will be.

It is about choice.

Are you talking about annihilationism?