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Again, could God have not manipulated time in some fashion (eg 2 Peter 3:8)?
No, that's what theistic evolutionists believe. Nothing there about design, irreducible complexity, specified information or anything else about ID.until you read it.
18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of people who suppress the truth in unrighteousness, 19 because that which is known about God is evident within them; for God made it evident to them. 20 For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse. 21 For even though they knew God, they did not honor Him as God or give thanks, but they became futile in their reasonings, and their senseless hearts were darkened. 22 Claiming to be wise, they became fools, 23 and they exchanged the glory of the incorruptible God for an image in the form of corruptible mankind, of birds, four-footed animals, and crawling creatures.
For since the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, being understood by what has been made, so that they are without excuse.
This is irrefutable
Instead of saying "nothing appears to be made any more than 2+2 appears to be supernaturally design to be 4" -- it says that Creation is seen to "be made" it says that not only is it "seen" to be made - but the characteristics of the maker - the designer -- the creator - are clearly seen by looking at "what He has made".
That is ID "and then some".
How does this rule out evolution as a process by which God created species?
Oh I know. I don't just consider theistic evolutionists to be "creationists" as per the common usage in these forums.
There is nothing in Romans 1 about ID.
No, that's what theistic evolutionists believe. Nothing there about design, irreducible complexity, specified information or anything else about ID.
What fashion do you propose given that in legal code it is the same as the 24 hour day of Ex 20
God is the one that set the time limit
And the scope of the project "from dust to fully functioning adult human"
Evolution stories offered so far do not play at all withing such limits.
Let's try the thought experiment.
God holds out his hand over some dust - and underneath his hand the dust rises up self-organizes into the shape of an adult human... God breathes on it 'the breath of life" and all the clay/dust "turns into" living human tissue functioning organs and the human instantly has speech, the ability to walk, and is capable of abstract thought concepts.
So using the computer model you could say the brain was downloaded with the patterns facts memories to function as an adult - but it does not show any path for how evolution simply does that to a pile of clay in 24 hours.
Because evolution presupposes death, and lots of it, yet the Scriptures tell us that death did not enter into the equation until the fall, when all the different kinds of animals already existed.That's not the point. The point is that if we don't actually know how* God created species, why assume God didn't use evolution?
2 Peter 3:8
be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day
Because evolution presupposes death, and lots of it, yet the Scriptures tell us that death did not enter into the equation until the fall, when all the different kinds of animals already existed.
And even if that eisegetical "insert" could be crammed into the text it would not satisfy evolution - but there is no science of evolution known to mankind today that starts with dust - and ends up with a fully functioning adult human in 1000 years.
Where in the Bible does it say that this process was instantaneous?
Where does it say that God put their hand over some dust?
Okay, let's assume it was a literal 24 hour day for argument's sake. Why couldn't God have simply used an accelerated evolutionary process within that time frame?
A pun.I did not use the term "instantaneous" - I said 24 hours. One evening and one morning
Do you have such a process in any evolution text book for going from dust to fully functioning adult human in 24 hours.
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BobRyan said: ↑
Let's try the thought experiment.
God holds out his hand over some dust - and underneath his hand the dust rises up self-organizes into the shape of an adult human... God breathes on it 'the breath of life" and all the clay/dust "turns into" living human tissue functioning organs and the human instantly has speech, the ability to walk, and is capable of abstract thought concepts.
So using the computer model you could say the brain was downloaded with the patterns facts memories to function as an adult - but it does not show any path for how evolution simply does that to a pile of clay in 24 hours.
1. It says He made man of the dust of the ground.
2. That was me indulging your fiction for a moment in that gratis "thought experiment"
I did not use the term "instantaneous" - I said 24 hours. One evening and one morning
God holds out his hand over some dust - and underneath his hand the dust rises up self-organizes into the shape of an adult human... God breathes on it 'the breath of life" and all the clay/dust "turns into" living human tissue functioning organs and the human instantly has speech, the ability to walk, and is capable of abstract thought concepts.
Do you have such a process in any evolution text book for going from dust to fully functioning adult human in 24 hours.
what would be the point? What problem would that solve?
Why not direct-manufacture??
Okay, let's assume it was a literal 24 hour day for argument's sake. Why couldn't God have simply used an accelerated evolutionary process within that time frame?
That's what I'm asking you. Why couldn't God have used an evolutionary process? Even for arguments sake a hyper-evolutionary process that fit in a 24-ish time frame?
When an answer to question is another question, it's not an answer.
And all of the evidence tells us there was death on the Earth for billions of years before humans even showed up.Because evolution presupposes death, and lots of it, yet the Scriptures tell us that death did not enter into the equation until the fall, when all the different kinds of animals already existed.
BobRyan said: ↑
Let's try the thought experiment.
God holds out his hand over some dust - and underneath his hand the dust rises up self-organizes into the shape of an adult human... God breathes on it 'the breath of life" and all the clay/dust "turns into" living human tissue functioning organs and the human instantly has speech, the ability to walk, and is capable of abstract thought concepts.
So using the computer model you could say the brain was downloaded with the patterns facts memories to function as an adult - but it does not show any path for how evolution simply does that to a pile of clay in 24 hours.
1. It says He made man of the dust of the ground.
2. That was me indulging your fiction for a moment in that gratis "thought experiment"
What nonsense. Genesis says nothing about a "hand." It just says God formed man.
Not really. There was cessation of life for individual forms, but there was no 'death' before there was a creature which could contemplate its own mortality.And all of the evidence tells us there was death on the Earth for billions of years before humans even showed up.
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