One thing at a time.

[david_x]

From EvilBible.com:

Top Ten List

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.​

Now, from Mere Christianity by C.S.Lewis:

"If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you do have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake. If you are a Christian, you are free to think that all these religions, even the queerest ones, contain at least some hint of the truth."​

Does that answer your questions Atheists?

 

[Jade Margery]

Is this an ethics or morality issue? If not, you're in the wrong place. They got rid of general apologetics for a reason.

If you have questions for atheists, try PMing them individually. I, for instance, would be happy to converse with you at length provided that you remain courteous in the discourse.

I am not sure what 'questions' you are trying to 'answer' for atheists with this post, as none were asked.

 

[Penumbra]

Atheists don't necessarily have to think all religions are wrong through and through. You can be an atheist and a devout Buddhist, for instance. Or you can be an atheist and see that there is truth in some religions, even if their main points and claims are false.

In addition, it seems that the main point of that "#10" is to showcase the emotional response. I don't feel outraged when someone doesn't agree with me, and many Christians on this board don't feel outraged when someone disagrees with them. There are some that do.

I also do not see how this is related to ethics and morality.

-Lyn

 

[plindboe]

From EvilBible.com:

Top Ten List

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.​

Now, from Mere Christianity by C.S.Lewis:

"If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you do have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake. If you are a Christian, you are free to think that all these religions, even the queerest ones, contain at least some hint of the truth."​

Does that answer your questions Atheists?

That's not my question. Actually it's not even a question. But no, it doesn't answer it, as they're addressing different things. The top ten entry addresses existance of certain gods, the C.S.Lewis quote addresses whether different religions can contain some truth value.

Christians are atheists concerning Zeus, but I'm sure they can find some elements in these archaic beliefs they like. Likewise, I don't believe that the christian god exists, but I can find truth and things I agree with in christian scripture easily.

Peter

 

[david_x]

Oops, wrong board...were should apologetics be discussed?

 

[plindboe]

Oops, wrong board...were should apologetics be discussed?

They deleted the board to have apologetics discussions, so naturally these interesting and important discussions has seeped onto other boards. Since there's no board for it, I say, put it wherever you feel it belongs, and let the people in charge sort out the mess.

Peter

 

[david_x]

Well, let me try this. Let us say that the moral issue here is the Atheist belief that Christians are being hypocrites when they deny the existence of other gods.

 

[david_x]

Atheists don't necessarily have to think all religions are wrong through and through. You can be an atheist and a devout Buddhist, for instance. Or you can be an atheist and see that there is truth in some religions, even if their main points and claims are false.

In addition, it seems that the main point of that "#10" is to showcase the emotional response. I don't feel outraged when someone doesn't agree with me, and many Christians on this board don't feel outraged when someone disagrees with them. There are some that do.

I also do not see how this is related to ethics and morality.

-Lyn

Atheists have to believe that almost everyone on the planet has been mislead into believing that some sort of god or gods exist. (Buddism is an exception of course, but it is not important to this conversation as the point we are discussing is the belief in deities.)

 

[david_x]

That's not my question. Actually it's not even a question. But no, it doesn't answer it, as they're addressing different things. The top ten entry addresses existance of certain gods, the C.S.Lewis quote addresses whether different religions can contain some truth value.

Christians are atheists concerning Zeus, but I'm sure they can find some elements in these archaic beliefs they like. Likewise, I don't believe that the christian god exists, but I can find truth and things I agree with in christian scripture easily.

Peter

We are not necessarily atheists concerning Zeus, we are very much free to think that there is some truth behind the idea of Zeus. We may think that Zeus is simply a misguided understanding of God.

 

[plindboe]

We are not necessarily atheists concerning Zeus, we are very much free to think that there is some truth behind the idea of Zeus. We may think that Zeus is simply a misguided understanding of God.

Sure you're free to say that, but it's a rather vague and meaningless comparison, as you reject nearly everything that makes Zeus Zeus. An atheist can just as easily melt definitions into the same meaninglessness and say that there is some truth to the christian god, but what's the point of such an exercise? You still don't accept the existance of Zeus as defined, and an atheist doesn't accept the existance of the christian god as defined.

Peter

 

[Jade Margery]

Atheists have to believe that almost everyone on the planet has been mislead into believing that some sort of god or gods exist. (Buddism is an exception of course, but it is not important to this conversation as the point we are discussing is the belief in deities.)

Your phrasing is misleading. Atheists don't have to believe anything.

Example: I consider myself a gamer in that I play a lot of games, both table top and electronic. This doesn't mean I have to play games. I just do. The label is derived from the action, not the other way around.

Atheists are labeled by their lack of belief in divine beings. If they started believing in one, they would be called something else.

And although I can't speak for other atheists, I do think that most of the people on the planet are being misled. Willingly, happily, yes, but led all the same. One of the more convincing reasons for this point of view, for me, is the sheer number of gods and religions on earth, most of which have some kind of superiority complex that claims their god(s) is the only god(s) that counts. Given the equal lack of evidence across the board, I cannot logically say that any one of them is more correct than another.

While you are free to think there is some 'truth' behind Zeus, I doubt you worship him. Or Odin. Or Krishna. Or Ra. And I am sure that there are many Christians, especially fundamentalists (whom the list is specifically targeting) who would disagree and say that Jesus (their version) is the only truth, period.

The accusation of hypocrisy comes when they demonize atheists for not believing in their god while they find it perfectly reasonable to not believe in other gods. Generally speaking, if you condemn someone for something you yourself do, you're being a hypocrite.

 

[lawtonfogle]

From EvilBible.com:

Top Ten List

10 - You vigorously deny the existence of thousands of gods claimed by other religions, but feel outraged when someone denies the existence of yours.​

Now, from Mere Christianity by C.S.Lewis:

"If you are a Christian you do not have to believe that all the other religions are simply wrong all through. If you are an atheist you do have to believe that the main point in all the religions of the whole world is simply one huge mistake. If you are a Christian, you are free to think that all these religions, even the queerest ones, contain at least some hint of the truth."​

Does that answer your questions Atheists?

Meh, my response is completely different. I don't feel outrage, I can understand where they are coming from if they lack faith. So the premise of the question is incorrect, at least in my own case.

 

[david_x]

Sure you're free to say that, but it's a rather vague and meaningless comparison, as you reject nearly everything that makes Zeus Zeus. An atheist can just as easily melt definitions into the same meaninglessness and say that there is some truth to the christian god, but what's the point of such an exercise? You still don't accept the existance of Zeus as defined, and an atheist doesn't accept the existance of the christian god as defined.

Peter

Atheists don't accept any definition of God, isn't that the point?

 

[plindboe]

Well, let me try this. Let us say that the moral issue here is the Atheist belief that Christians are being hypocrites when they deny the existence of other gods.

I think the point in the top 10 entry is rather about the demonization that are in some christian circles about what it means to be an "atheist" and about it being construed as closemindedness. I think it's a good point that christians reject tons of other gods, most of them they haven't even examined.

While the top 10 entry might sound provocative, it's actually stating that there is common ground, and that we all dismiss claims when we don't feel they are supported by evidence. We agree about the vast majority, but there's one of these claims where some of us haven't been convinced and where you have.

Peter

 

[david_x]

I think the point in the top 10 entry is rather about the demonization that are in some christian circles about what it means to be an "atheist" and about it being construed as closemindedness. I think it's a good point that christians reject tons of other gods, most of them they haven't even examined.

While the top 10 entry might sound provocative, it's actually stating that there is common ground, and that we all dismiss claims when we don't feel they are supported by evidence. We agree about the vast majority, but there's one of these claims where some of us haven't been convinced and where you have.

Peter

What the top ten list actually does, is demonizes the Christian religion unfairly.

 

[plindboe]

Atheists don't accept any definition of God, isn't that the point?

Sure, but one can still play with definitions, like you did. One could make comparisons for instance between the Universe and the christian god and then claim that there is some truth value, even though one doesn't believe in the god as defined.

I don't in any way support such a tactic, as it's nothing but a play with language to reconcile different belief systems.

Peter

 

[david_x]

Sure, but one can still play with definitions, like you did. One could make comparisons for instance between the Universe and the christian god and then claim that there is some truth value, even though one doesn't believe in the god as defined.

I don't in any way support such a tactic, as it's nothing but a play with language to reconcile different belief systems.

Peter

Are you saying that gods exist? Because if you are not you should just say you were wrong.

 

[Jade Margery]

What the top ten list actually does, is demonizes the Christian religion unfairly.

It is pointing out hypocrisies commonly practiced by fundamentalists, who are a rather small group of Christians. Also, there is a difference between demonizing and mocking.

Demonizing would be saying that a person can't be moral or good, in fact may not even be human, without thinking exactly as you do.

Mocking is making a list of humorously contradictory behavior.

To be fair, the website itself is demonizing Christianity (using examples from Christian myth compared to modern standards of ethics and humane behavior) but I have seen that list in several other places and it's not unique to evilbible.com.

 

[plindboe]

What the top ten list actually does, is demonizes the Christian religion unfairly.

It addresses some attitudes that I think we've all encountered from time to time among various christians. I think most christians here will freely agree that there are many hypocratic, ignorant and closeminded christians in the world, and the attitudes in that list are some rather fine examples.

It's not an approach I'd use though, as it makes its points rather sweepingly and derogatorily, and I can see how that would be annoying if you consider yourself a fundamentalist christian. But if the points doesn't apply to you, I suggest you shrug them off.

Peter

 

[jayem]

Well, let me try this. Let us say that the moral issue here is the Atheist belief that Christians are being hypocrites when they deny the existence of other gods.

I wouldn't say it's hypocrisy. It's more of a tu quoque argument. What Christians criticize about non-theists may apply equally to themselves. But tu quoque is usually considered a type of logical fallacy.

Though theism and non-theism are similar in that neither claim can be proven with absolute metaphysical certainty. Both require a degree of faith that one's belief is correct.