One saved always saved (Eternal Security)

messager777 · Sep 30, 2017

MATTHEW.7: =
You Will Know Them by Their Fruits
15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. .......

I Never Knew You
21 “Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me in that day, ‘Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?’ 23 And then I will declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!’

InterestedApologist · Sep 30, 2017

Oldmantook said:
Can someone stop believing after he/she becomes a Christian? Can someone become a Buddhist who was previously a believer? In Lk 8:4-15 Jesus explained one aspect of the parable of the sower. "And the ones on the rock are those who, when they hear the word, receive it with joy. But these have no root; they believe for a while, and in time of testing fall away (v.13) . Jesus himself taught that someone can believe for a while but when tested, falls away.

The issue here is not a genuine faith unto salvation that existed, but a general belief not unto salvation. There are scores of people that believe but are not saved. They love the concept of Christ, but he is just another option for enlightenment or part of their spiritual buffet. When tested, they will take whatever works for them at the moment. These people would say they are “spiritual”, not that they are Christ followers. Some will even serve in churches and be turned away at the judgement. This points out the folly of works as a way to earn salvation as you can clearly perform many and still be condemned.

I find it illogical to believe that a salvation we can do nothing to earn, that Jesus died to provide while we were still his enemies, and that the Bible claims transforms us when it is true, can suddenly be lost due to an imperfect walk. Works provide the evidence affirming that salvation has occurred, not the means of keeping it. True faith WILL persist.

PeaceB · Sep 30, 2017

InterestedApologist said:
The issue here is not a genuine faith unto salvation that existed, but a general belief not unto salvation. There are scores of people that believe but are not saved. They love the concept of Christ, but he is just another option for enlightenment or part of their spiritual buffet. When tested, they will take whatever works for them at the moment. These people would say they are “spiritual”, not that they are Christ followers. Some will even serve in churches and be turned away at the judgement. This points out the folly of works as a way to earn salvation as you can clearly perform many and still be condemned.

I find it illogical to believe that a salvation we can do nothing to earn, that Jesus died to provide while we were still his enemies, and that the Bible claims transforms us when it is true, can suddenly be lost due to an imperfect walk. Works provide the evidence affirming that salvation has occurred, not the means of keeping it. True faith WILL persist.

Do you have true faith?

Neostarwcc · Sep 30, 2017

For those who are speaking against Eternal Security I have a question for you. How can a person who has been born again become unborn again? To say that we can lose our salvation and to say that Eternal Security is a lie is calling Jesus a liar. Especially when he said "I shall not lose a single believer". It's right there in black and white.

PeaceB · Sep 30, 2017

mmbattlestar said:
For those who are speaking against Eternal Security I have a question for you. How can a person who has been born again become unborn again? To say that we can lose our salvation and to say that Eternal Security is a lie is calling Jesus a liar. Especially when he said "I shall not lose a single believer". It's right there in black and white.

"Born again" refers to water baptism. Read the Scripture that uses the term.

AlexDTX · Sep 30, 2017

mmbattlestar said:
Eternal security is the doctrine that when a person is saved nothing can affect their salvation. They can never lose it for any reason. I believe Eternal Security is true because of the following verses:

If one saved, then that one is Jesus, and his eternal security is true.

Phantasman · Sep 30, 2017

Duzt said:
Just for the record, I do believe that faith is the core of one's Covenant with Christ. Good works are a plus, but not a necessity, as it is only a manifestation of faith, but not a mandatory one. Another comes grace, the blessings of faith to Christ, and the Eternal Security is already certain as God already predestined all people whom he wants to be part of His elect or not.

I agree with the OP about the part that the promise of salvation is eternal, and to be made righteous with God, the faith we keep in the Blood of Jesus have washed all our sins, past, present and future. We are sinful in nature indeed and our good works cannot save us. Thus, eternal security would make sense because God is not an bargain dealer, but a God and He's really good at it.

So, I would expect at the day's end of my life that God would welcome me as He sees me cloaked with Righteousness from Jesus' Blood.

"Good works are a plus, but not a necessity, as it is only a manifestation of faith, but not a mandatory one."

I'm glad Christ didn't feel that way. His works saved us.

John:
Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

Rescued One · Sep 30, 2017

147 verses ---- I can't read them all! If a person is born again, he won't become unborn and he won't walk in the sinful path he was on before.

He won't alienate himself from the Good Shepherd and the wolf won't devour him.

2 Corinthians 5
17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

Rescued One · Sep 30, 2017

mmbattlestar said:
Correct, it is rewards in Heaven that we can lose. Not our salvation. That is Eternal.

I believe that Christians don't have differing rewards in heaven:

Ephesians 1:3 says that we have been blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ. What are these spiritual blessings, and what do they do for us? Contrary to some beliefs, they are not some mysterious power or cosmic connection reserved for a select few. They are the key benefits of a relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
What are spiritual blessings?

StevenBelievin · Sep 30, 2017

WilliamBo said:
These are all verses stating that you CAN lose your salvation-

Matthew 13:20-21
Matthew 24:44-51
Matthew 18:28-35
Mark 4:16-18; Mark 11:25;
Mark 13:20-23;
Luke 8:13
Luke 12:42-46; John 6:60-71
John 12:44-48; John 15:5-6;
John 17:12; Acts 20:28-30;
Romans 6:12-13,16;
Romans 8:12-13;
Romans 11:20-22;
1 Corinthians 3:13-17
1 Corinthians 6:8-11
1 Corinthians 6:15-18
1 Corinthians 9:24-27
1 Corinthians 10:2,9
1 Corinthians 10:11-12
1 Corinthians 11:28-30
1 Corinthians 15:1-2
2 Corinthians 15:1-2
2 Corinthians 5: 20- 6:2
2 Corinthians 11:2
2 Corinthians 13:5
Galatians 1:6-9
Galatians 4:8-9
Galatians 5:19-21
Galatians 6: 7-9
Ephesians 5:2-6
Philippians 2: 12-16
Philippians 3:10-13
Colossians 1:21-23
Colossians 3:5-9, 24-25
1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-2
1Timothy 5:8
1Timothy 5:14-15
1Tim. 6:9-10
1Tim. 6: 20-21
2 Tim. 2:11-12
Titus 3:8-11
Hebrews 2:1-3
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 3:18-4:1
Hebrews 6:4-6
Hebrews 10:23-29
Hebrews 12:12-17, 25
James 1:14-16
James 2:12-13
James 4:4
James 5:8-9, 19-20
2 Peter 1:3-4
2 Peter 2:1-2, 14-15, 20-22
2 Peter 3:17
1 John 2:3-4
1 John 3:14-18
1 John 5:17
2 John 8:9
Revelation 2:4-5

Naa, that's not what those say.

Here's the one verse you need to look at.

Romans 8:30

Those who are justified will be glorified.

Once someone is in a state of justification their end will be glorification.

There is no revolving door on salvation. Going in and out and hoping you're in when you either die or Jesus comes back.

redleghunter · Sep 30, 2017

messager777 said:
.
Historically and factually, the Lord Jesus Christ did not write the New Testament Gospel, ie there was no NT when Jesus was being crucified on the Cross at around 33AD.

The Gospel originated with Jesus but was written down by His apostles and disciples after His crucifixion, eg by Paul in the latter part of 1st century AD. You and I came to believe in the Gospel message through the written word of the apostles/disciples of Christ, ie not hearing directly from the spoken word of Jesus.

At JOHN.17, Jesus made different prayers for His apostles/disciples and those who would believe in Him through the word of His apostles/disciples. Why.? = because the apostles/disciples had the divine privilege to hear the word directly from Him. REV.21:14 says that the 12 apostles will have pre-eminent positions in the kingdom of heaven.

No doubt there. However it is the same Word given whether in person or heard/read later. It's the same Promise.

That is what I was getting at.

However you separated the words of Christ in the John 10 passage on His sheep hearing His voice. You said that particular passage was only for those then present.

Clearly from the High Priestly prayer in John 17, Jesus included all to come as well.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 30, 2017

Duzt said:
Just for the record, I do believe that faith is the core of one's Covenant with Christ. Good works are a plus, but not a necessity, as it is only a manifestation of faith, but not a mandatory one. Another comes grace, the blessings of faith to Christ, and the Eternal Security is already certain as God already predestined all people whom he wants to be part of His elect or not.

I agree with the OP about the part that the promise of salvation is eternal, and to be made righteous with God, the faith we keep in the Blood of Jesus have washed all our sins, past, present and future. We are sinful in nature indeed and our good works cannot save us. Thus, eternal security would make sense because God is not an bargain dealer, but a God and He's really good at it.

So, I would expect at the day's end of my life that God would welcome me as He sees me cloaked with Righteousness from Jesus' Blood.

Then why all the talk about those who did many wonderful works for Jesus and yet Christ said to depart from Him because they worked iniquity (sin)?

See Matthew 7.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 30, 2017

mmbattlestar said:
For those who are speaking against Eternal Security I have a question for you. How can a person who has been born again become unborn again? To say that we can lose our salvation and to say that Eternal Security is a lie is calling Jesus a liar. Especially when he said "I shall not lose a single believer". It's right there in black and white.

False thinking. People are born and then they die. People have been brought back from the dead. So if a person dies spiritually, they need to be spiritually resuscitated.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 30, 2017

David said create in me a new heart and a right spirit after he sinned greatly before the Lord. Obviously David’s heart was right before God prior to his great sins. But needed to repent after he sinned. David needed the joy of his salvation back.

Bible Highlighter · Sep 30, 2017

Phantasman said:
"Good works are a plus, but not a necessity, as it is only a manifestation of faith, but not a mandatory one."

I'm glad Christ didn't feel that way. His works saved us.

John:
Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

Ever read Matthew 25:31-46 lately?

Citizen of the Kingdom · Sep 30, 2017

Jason0047 said:
Ever read Matthew 25:31-46 lately?

What are you implying with that verse?

Citizen of the Kingdom · Sep 30, 2017

Phoebe Ann said:
I believe that Christians don't have differing rewards in heaven:

Ephesians 1:3 says that we have been blessed with all spiritual blessings in Christ. What are these spiritual blessings, and what do they do for us? Contrary to some beliefs, they are not some mysterious power or cosmic connection reserved for a select few. They are the key benefits of a relationship with God through Jesus Christ.
What are spiritual blessings?

Spiritual blessings are not the same as rewards. We are all given all the blessings found IN CHRIST. However loss of rewards comes from lack of abiding.

Rescued One · Sep 30, 2017

~Cassia~ said:
Spiritual blessings are not the same as rewards. We are all given all the blessings found IN CHRIST. However loss of rewards comes from lack of abiding.

I disagree. Those who are safe in His arms, do abide. If any man be in Christ, he is a new creature.

Is a reward a blessing? It certainly is.

...So the question remains, "if our faith is of Christ, and our work is of Christ, what part is of ourselves that we can expect varying degrees of rewards dependant upon our good works?" There are none. The good we are, and the good we do, we do by the Grace of God, and it is He who deserves all the Glory for the work in us. The faithful, evidencing true humility, give credit to whom it is warranted.
--- Tony Warren

InterestedApologist · Sep 30, 2017

Jason0047 said:
David said create in me a new heart and a right spirit after he sinned greatly before the Lord. Obviously David’s heart was right before God prior to his great sins. But needed to repent after he sinned. David needed the joy of his salvation back.

So David was on his way to hell and only his repentance saved him again?

InterestedApologist · Sep 30, 2017

PeaceB said:
Do you have true faith?

I believe I do. I also believe at one point I did not.

2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

One saved always saved (Eternal Security)

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We are saved purely by the work and grace of God.

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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Thank You Jesus!

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

Law of the Lord is perfect, converting the soul.

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...yet not I, but the grace of God that is with me

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