One saved always saved (Eternal Security)

Freedom~Sprite said:

Do you accept that Salvation is by the grace of God? Through the sacrifice of his son Jesus?

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Yes of course. I believe the Nicene Creed and the Trinity and the canon of scripture. I believe the Bible is the divinely inspired, inerrant, infallible word of God. I'm a born-again, radically-saved, on-fire-for-the-Lord Christian.

This is the confidence we have in approaching God: that if we ask anything according to his will, he hears us. And if we know that he hears us—whatever we ask—we know that we have wI’ll....

QUOTE="WilliamBo, post: 71816224, member: 392254"]These are all verses stating that you CAN lose your salvation-

Matthew 13:20-21
Matthew 24:44-51
Matthew 18:28-35
Mark 4:16-18; Mark 11:25;
Mark 13:20-23;
Luke 8:13
Luke 12:42-46; John 6:60-71
John 12:44-48; John 15:5-6;
John 17:12; Acts 20:28-30;
Romans 6:12-13,16;
Romans 8:12-13;
Romans 11:20-22;
1 Corinthians 3:13-17
1 Corinthians 6:8-11
1 Corinthians 6:15-18
1 Corinthians 9:24-27
1 Corinthians 10:2,9
1 Corinthians 10:11-12
1 Corinthians 11:28-30
1 Corinthians 15:1-2
2 Corinthians 15:1-2
2 Corinthians 5: 20- 6:2
2 Corinthians 11:2
2 Corinthians 13:5
Galatians 1:6-9
Galatians 4:8-9
Galatians 5:19-21
Galatians 6: 7-9
Ephesians 5:2-6
Philippians 2: 12-16
Philippians 3:10-13
Colossians 1:21-23
Colossians 3:5-9, 24-25
1 Thessalonians 4:3-8
1 Timothy 1:18-20
1 Timothy 4:1-2
1Timothy 5:8
1Timothy 5:14-15
1Tim. 6:9-10
1Tim. 6: 20-21
2 Tim. 2:11-12
Titus 3:8-11
Hebrews 2:1-3
Hebrews 3:12-14
Hebrews 3:18-4:1
Hebrews 6:4-6
Hebrews 10:23-29
Hebrews 12:12-17, 25
James 1:14-16
James 2:12-13
James 4:4
James 5:8-9, 19-20
2 Peter 1:3-4
2 Peter 2:1-2, 14-15, 20-22
2 Peter 3:17
1 John 2:3-4
1 John 3:14-18
1 John 5:17
2 John 8:9
Revelation 2:4-5[/QUOTE

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Yes, yet all Scripture, forever unchanged,
cannot change someone's mind if they don't want to rely on Yahweh and trust in Him.
Whenever someone trusts in man's ways, man's doctrines, Yahweh Himself curses them, and the curse remains until they turn to Yahweh, as Yahweh Pleases.

See anyone, anywhere, on earth today ? They are almost certainly not eternally saved yet. (as in the days of Noah, when only 8 were saved)
It really doesn't matter if they or everyone even thinks they are, does it ?
What Yahweh Says IS WHAT MATTERS - completely as HIS WORD SAYS.

On Judgment Day might be the first they learn of this (when it is far far too late for everyone to change sides).

Post # 623 is entirely false and contrary to relevant scripture in context.

messager777 said:

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I don't think so, ie eternal life does not begin right now when we are still alive on this rotten and evil-ridden earth..

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I beg to differ. Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24 And John writes in his epistle "And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1John 5:11-13

Kenny'sID said:

can we as saved individuals remain saved if we do those things as part of our lifestyle, or as put there if they are what we are/were?? If you say no, there is no ES, if you say yes, then that verse and several others a lot like it are a lie. IOW there is something amiss, somewhere. Check your math.

ES, don't believe it, and don't teach it, it's just another Easy Street to Heaven illusion for those who prefer to believe it over the truth..

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You have failed to consider another possibility. Namely "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9 I say you've invented an artificial category of people who don't actual exist. Namely those saved (and as such born of God) who continue to sin. Doesn't exist.

Thus
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.
For if they had belonged to us, (ONCE SAVED)
they would have remained with us; (ALWAYS SAVED)
but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
1John 2:19

bcbsr said:

You have failed to consider another possibility. Namely "No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of God." 1John 3:9

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And if we do not "remain in him", like many choose not to? Read the verse you just posted...did you not even see that part?

bcbsr said:

I say you've invented an artificial category of people who don't actual exist. Namely those saved (and as such born of God) who continue to sin. Doesn't exist.

Thus
They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us.
For if they had belonged to us, (ONCE SAVED)
they would have remained with us; (ALWAYS SAVED)
but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.
1John 2:19

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Yes, always saved as long they "remained"...and if they do not remain? And remain where? Where we may just be pretending we are? Are we certain even ourselves have "remained"? Is anyone here a perpetual sinner, one that commits wilful sin without concern because they feel they are always saved no matter what? There are those of us that feel those are the ones that have "gone out from us". Can people not see the truth that sits right in front of them? Some have clearly blinded themselves.

Some of you do realize just because one comes to a Christian website or goes to church, that far from necessarily means they have not "gone out from us"? Right? Our delusions can be so great we never considered we are the very people that we are saying have "Gone out" and "Didn't remain with us". and we are that because of our deeds, hence we were sent strong delusion.

But one thing about that "strong delusion" It's strong, no doubt, but I doubt and pray, it's not impossible to break away from, (it's is not written it cannot be broken) especially if one is suddenly shocked into reality, but if they don't heed that, I'm afraid they may never have another chance. That particular part is JMO, but it sounds right to me.

If someone who once believed at some point no longer believes (for whatever reason) how can that person be saved?

Read John 3 + Ephesians 2.

Salvation is an irrevocable spiritual change and gift from God. He is not an Indian-Giver.

Belief / Faith are spiritual gifts. They are not man-made.

God spiritually calls / draws all men to a "free will" decision to accept or reject His gracious provisions unto the salvation event, and this begins the sanctification process. God the Holy Spirit thereafter guides and comforts the believer into the will of God.

Loss of Salvation is impossible if the believer agrees with God (confession), resulting in cleansing from and forgiveness of sins.
1 John 1

συνείδησις said:

If someone who once believed at some point no longer believes (for whatever reason) how can that person be saved?

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This is not intended as some slam-dunk retort, but it is often the case that people who seemed to believe but then seem thereafter to lose their faith, do return to the faith at a later time. In fact, we all have ups and downs with our religious lives.

If anything, this may indicate that the gift of faith is more enduring than we suppose.

bcbsr said:

I beg to differ. Jesus said, "I tell you the truth, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be condemned; he has crossed over from death to life." John 5:24 And John writes in his epistle "And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life." 1John 5:11-13

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But we don't yet fully have eternal life. What we do have is surety of promised eternal life (1 Corinthians 1:22). Fully possessed eternal life is immortality, which none of us have yet. Thus we walk by faith.

συνείδησις said:

But we don't yet fully have eternal life. What we do have is surety of promised eternal life (1 Corinthians 1:22). Fully possessed eternal life is immortality, which none of us have yet. Thus we walk by faith.

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But as the Bible says that we have it right not, the rest is inevitable.

bcbsr said:

But as the Bible says that we have it right not, the rest is inevitable.

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The rest is inevitable if we keep the faith. There are no examples of anyone inheriting GOD's promises apart from faith. Impossible.

Response to:
1. But we (saved believers) don't yet fully have eternal life. What we do have is surety of promised eternal (spiritual) life.
2. Fully possessed eternal (spiritual) life is immortality which (believers) do not have.

Both are FALSE!

Man has an immortal spirit at conception. Eccl. 12

Genesis 1:26 (NASB)-
Then God said,
“Let Us make man in Our (SPIRITUAL) image, according to Our (CHARACTER) likeness;

SALVATION offered by Jesus: PAST completed TENSE! (AORIST!)

God does not take back nor allow man to give back His SALVATION...PAST completed TENSE! (AORIST!)

John 5:24 (all NASB)
“Truly, truly, I (Jesus) say to you,
he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, HAS eternal life,
and does not come into judgment, but HAS PASSED out of death into life.

Ephesians 2:4-10
(by grace you HAVE BEEN saved),

Luke 19:1-10...[ Zaccheus Converted ]
9 And Jesus said to him,
“Today salvation has come to this house, because he, too, is a son of Abraham.
10 For the Son of Man "has come" to seek and to save that which was lost.”

Mark 2:17
And hearing this, Jesus said to them,
“It is not those who are healthy who need a physician, but those who are sick;
I did not "come to call" the righteous, but sinners.”

John 3
17 For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world,
but that the world might "be saved" through Him.
18 He who believes in Him is not judged;
he who does not believe has been judged already,
because he "has not believed" in the name of the ONLY begotten Son of God.

John 6
35 Jesus said to them,
“I am the bread of life;
he who COMES to Me WILL not hunger,
and he who BELIEVES in Me WILL never thirst.
36 But I said to you that you have SEEN Me, and yet do not BELIEVE.
40 For this is the will of My Father,
that everyone who beholds the Son and BELIEVES in Him "WILL (is certain to) have "eternal life"",
and I Myself will raise him up "on the last day".”

John 10
27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me;
28 and I "GIVE eternal life to them", and they will never perish;
and no one will snatch them out of My hand.
29 My Father, who HAS GIVEN them to Me, is greater than all;
and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand.
30 I and the Father are one.” (IN SPIRITUAL ESSENCE AND NATURE!)

John 17:2-3 ...Jesus' High Priestly Prayer to the Father about Jesus' followers
even as You gave Him authority over all flesh,
that to all whom You "have given" Him,
He MAY GIVE "eternal life".
This is "eternal life",
that they MAY KNOW You, the only true God, and
(KNOW) Jesus Christ whom You have sent.

John 1:12,14 (NIV)
Yet to all who "RECEIVED" him,
to those who "BELIEVED" in His name, (Jesus the Christ)
He gave the right to become CHILDREN of God...

Ecclesiastes 12...Remember God in Your Youth: AT DEATH...
7 then the dust (body/soul combo) will return to the earth as it was, (SEE: Genesis 2:7)
and the spirit (breath of life) will return to God who gave it. (SEE: Genesis 1:26 SPIRITUAL image)
8 “Vanity of vanities,” says the Preacher, “all is vanity!

Jesus the God-Man's SPIRIT was "committed" to heaven by Him.
His "spirit body" ascended.
Man's SPIRIT either dwells with or is separated from God...
....eternal life in the heavenly realms for believers.
....eternal existence in the "lake of fire" for UN-believers.

Job 33:4
“The Spirit of God has made me,
And the breath of the Almighty gives me life.

Isaiah 42:5
Thus says God the Lord,
Who created the heavens and stretched them out,
Who spread out the earth and its offspring,
Who gives breath to the people on it
And spirit to those who walk in it,

John 6:63...Jesus
It is the Spirit who gives life;
the flesh profits nothing;
the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and are life.

John 4:24...Jesus:
God is spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth.”

Ron Gurley said:

Man has an immortal spirit at conception. Eccl. 12
...
SALVATION offered by Jesus: PAST completed TENSE! (AORIST!)

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Man is not spirit.

Also, the aorist is indefinite, not past tense. For example, GOD has not abolished death (2 Timothy 1:10)

συνείδησις said:

Man is not spirit.

Also, the aorist is indefinite, not past tense. For example, GOD has not abolished death (2 Timothy 1:10)

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Now, that is an interesting thought. What do you make of I Thessalonians 5:23 (May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.) "?

bbbbbbb said:

Now, that is an interesting thought. What do you make of I Thessalonians 5:23 (May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.) "?

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That defines what man is - a unity of body, soul and spirit. The concept that man is a spirit being is what the gnostics believed.

συνείδησις said:

That defines what man is - a unity of body, soul and spirit. The concept that man is a spirit being is what the gnostics believed.

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The other extreme, of course, is modern secularism which denies that man is a spirit, but is just an animal like all other animals.

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul (psyche) and spirit (pneuma), of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.(cardia)

Ecclesiastes 12...Remember God in Your Youth: AT DEATH...
7 then the dust (Body/Soul combo) will return to the earth as it was, (SEE: Genesis 2:7)
and the SPIRIT (breath of life) will return to God who gave it. (SEE: Genesis 1:26 SPIRITUAL image

Acts 23:8
For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.

SPIRIT is the immortal part of man which God Judges.

Hebrews 9:27
And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die ( Body / Soul combo) once and after this comes judgment (of all spirits)

Ron Gurley said:

Hebrews 4:12
For the word of God is living and active and sharper than any two-edged sword, and piercing as far as the division of soul (psyche) and spirit (pneuma), of both joints and marrow, and able to judge the thoughts and intentions of the heart.(cardia)

Ecclesiastes 12...Remember God in Your Youth: AT DEATH...
7 then the dust (Body/Soul combo) will return to the earth as it was, (SEE: Genesis 2:7)
and the SPIRIT (breath of life) will return to God who gave it. (SEE: Genesis 1:26 SPIRITUAL image

Acts 23:8
For the Sadducees say that there is no resurrection, nor an angel, nor a spirit, but the Pharisees acknowledge them all.

SPIRIT is the immortal part of man which God Judges.

Hebrews 9:27
And inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die ( Body / Soul combo) once and after this comes judgment (of all spirits)

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Thank you for filling in the missing pieces for me.