One Reason to Reject Amill Doctrine

[sovereigngrace]

You misunderstood me somewhere along the way. I never once said that Millennium as 1000 years equal to a day is illogical. Maybe this post will make things clearer?

What I'm saying is, regardless whether Barnabas was correct or not, he mentioned 8 days. 7 of those days he was applying a thousand years to each day. The 8th day he was not still applying a thousand years to. He instead had that day being the beginning of the eternal age. In his view the 8th day is never ending, it is the beginning of a new world, where, by 'world' he was likely meaning age.

To Barnabas the 8 days looked like this, thus why he had to have been Premil rather than Amil.

You have admitted to me previously that you have not studied the early church fathers. I believe it shows in some of your conclusions. It is important for us to recognize the early peculiarities of these men before coming to conclusions. Barnabas has not one single description of a future millennium anywhere in his writings. It is all mistaken inference that Premils attribute to him due to modern partialities. He was a strong Amil.

Barnabas is not the only consummationist to hold to the ‘6 days = 6,000 years theory’. Several other leading figures also held to it. Cyprian, Aphrahat, Hilary, Tyconius, Jerome, Sulpicius Severus and Augustine join Barnabas on the Amillennialist side (8 in total). Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Commodianus, Lactantius, Victorinus and Gaudentius hold it on the Chiliast side (6 in total). We may of course have overlooked others, but this alone shows us that this ‘6 days = 6,000 years theory’ was a common belief in the infant Church. If it wasn’t for explicit anti-Chiliast statements from some of these early church Amils, modern Premils would have lumped them all in the Chiliast camp on the grounds of their belief in this 6,000 years world-view.

Many of the early Church writers, irrespective of their end-time views, embraced the natural weekly cycle of six working days and one for rest and worship. This made it a lot easier for them to accept the idea of 6 days of history representing six thousand years followed by a sabbath rest, whether a literal thousand years (advocated by the early Chiliasts) or an eternal rest (held by the early Amillennialists).

Barnabas Alexandria, Egypt (A.D. 70-120)

Epistle of Barnabas: Chapter 15

"And sanctify ye the Sabbath of the Lord with clean hands and a pure heart.” And He says in another place, "If my sons keep the Sabbath, then will I cause my mercy to rest upon them.” The Sabbath is mentioned at the beginning of the creation [thus]: "And God made in six days the works of His hands, and made an end on the seventh day, and rested on it, and sanctified it.” Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, “He finished in six days.” This implieth that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifieth, saying, “Behold, to-day will be as a thousand years.” Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished.
​

Epistle of Barnabas: Chapter 15

“And He rested on the seventh day.” This meaneth: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day.​

Sextus Julius Africanus

Fragment 1 On the Mythical Chronology of the Egyptians and Chaldeans

The Egyptians, indeed, with their boastful notions of their own antiquity, have put forth a sort of account of it by the hand of their astrologers in cycles and myriads of years; which some of those who have had the repute of studying such subjects profoundly have in a summary way called lunar years; and inclining no less than others to the mythical, they think they fall in with the eight or nine thousands of years which the Egyptian priests in Plato falsely reckon up to Solon.​

For why should I speak of the three myriad years of the Phoenicians, or of the follies of the Chaldeans, their forty-eight myriads? For the Jews, deriving their origin from them as descendants of Abraham, having been taught a modest mind, and one such as becomes men, together with the truth by the spirit of Moses, have handed down to us, by their extant Hebrew histories, the number of 5500 years as the period up to the advent of the Word of salvation, that was announced to the world in the time of the sway of the Caesars.​

Placing the birth of Jesus in the year 5500, and expecting the coming of Christ in the year 6000 (i.e. 500 A.D), showed that there were still centuries to wait before Christ’s return.

Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage, North Africa, (AD 200-258)

Treatise XI, Exhortation to Martyrdom, 11

What, indeed, do we find in the Maccabees of seven brethren, equals alike in their lot of birth and virtues, filling up the number seven in the sacrament of a perfected completion? Seven brethren were thus associating in martyrdom, as the first seven days in the divine arrangement containing seven thousand of years, as the seven spirits and seven angels which stand and go in and out before the face of God, and the seven-branched lamp in the tabernacle of witness, and the seven golden candlesticks in the Apocalypse, and the seven columns in Solomon upon which Wisdom built her house.​

Contrary to what come Premils might take from this, Cyprian actually believed the world was created in 7,000 years. He actually held that the world would then last 6,000 years followed by the eternal Sabbath.

Chapter 2

It is an ancient adversary and an old enemy with whom we wage our battle: six thousand years are now nearly completed since the devil first attacked man. All kinds of temptation, and arts, and snares for his overthrow, he has learned by the very practice of long years. If he finds Christ's soldier unprepared, if unskilled, if not careful and watching with his whole heart; he circumvents him if ignorant, he deceives him incautious, he cheats him inexperienced. But if a man, keeping the Lord's precepts, and bravely adhering to Christ, stands against him, he must needs be conquered, because Christ, whom that man confesses, is un-conquered.​

Aphrahat

The Demonstration Concerning Love Is Completed, 14.

But be not offended, beloved, by the word which is written unto thee, that by the division of His day God spared Jerusalem; for thus it is written by David in the ninetieth Psalms: "A thousand years in the eyes of the Lord are as a day which was completed and has passed away." And also our learned teachers say thus, that in the similitude of six days God made the world, and for the consummation of the world six thousand years were appointed, and there was to be a Sabbath of God in the similitude of the Sabbath which was after the six days, as our Saviour revealed and showed us concerning the Sabbath, for He spake thus: "Pray that your flight may not be in the Winter or on the Sabbath." And also the Apostle said: "There remaineth still a Sabbath of God. Let us give diligence also that we may enter into its rest." ​

Hilary Bishop of Poitiers

His Commentary on Matthew 17 explain:

After six days, Peter, James and John were taken apart from the others and brought to the top of the mountain. As they were looking on, the Lord was transfigured and resplendent in all the brilliance of his garments. In this manner there is preserved an underlying principle, a number and an example. It was after six days that the Lord was shown in his glory by his clothing; that is; the honour of the heavenly kingdom is prefigured in the unfolding of six thousand years.

After six days, the aspect of the Lord’s glory is shown: that is, six times of a thousand years having gone by, the honour of the heavenly kingdom is prefigured.​

Hilary did not anticipate an earthly millennial kingdom after the 6000 years has been expired. No, he, rather, anticipated a “heavenly kingdom.”

Tyconius, Africa (c. 330-390)

Libellus Regularis, Rule V.6

Several times, one day is 1000 years just as it is written: “in the day you taste from the tree you shall surely die” and the first seven days or seven thousand years: the Lord worked for six days “and rested from all his works on the seventh day and he blessed and sanctified it.” However, the Lord says “my father is working still.” For just as he worked this world for six days, so he works the spiritual world, which is the church, for six thousand years; and he is going to stop on the seventh day, which he has blessed and made eternal.

That is why, among the rest of his commands, the Lord taught nothing more sharply than that we observe and love the Sabbath day. However, he who does the precepts of God loves the Sabbath of rest. Therefore God warns the people not to enter the gates of Jerusalem with a load on the Sabbath day, and he threatens the gates and one going in and out through them … and if you will not hear me so that you will keep the Sabbath day holy, as not to carry loads not enter the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day then I will kindle a fire and it’s gates, and it shall consume the routes to Jerusalem and it’s still not be extinguished.​

Jerome Working from Rome, Italy (331-420 AD)

In 414 Jerome wrote in Epistle 140, 8 (PL 22. c. 1172)

I think it is on the basis of this passage [Psalms 90:4] and ... Peter's epistle that it has become customary for 1000 years to be called a day... so that since the world was created in six days, it is thought that it will last 6000 years, after which will come the number 7 and the ogdoad where the celebration of the true Sabbath will take place and the true circumcision.​

Against Jovinianus (Book II) Chapter 25.

Being in bondage during the six days of this world, on the seventh day, the true and eternal Sabbath, we shall be free. ​

Epistle 139:8

“A thousand years in thy sight as yesterday.” From this passage, and from the epistle which is attributed to the apostle Peter, I conclude that the custom comes of taking a thousand years for one day; with the result, that is, that just as the universe was fashioned in six days, so one believes that it will last only six thousand years, and that afterwards will come the sevenfold and the eightfold number, when the true Sabbath will be kept.​

Homily 3, on Psalm 7. FC 48, p. 26.

We have both a first and an eighth day; we receive the kingdom of heaven on the eighth; the eighth day after the sabbath is again the first day from the beginning.​

Epistle ad Cyprian supr. Ps. Lxxxix

I believe that in this place thousand years are commonly taken for a day, because this world having been made in six days, it is believed that it will last only six thousand years.​

Sulpicius Severus

(The Chronicle - Chronicorum Libri duo or Historia sacra, Book 1, Chapter II).

The world was created by God nearly six thousand years ago, as we shall set forth in the course of this book; although those who have entered upon and published a calculation of the dates, but little agree among themselves. As, however, this disagreement is due either to the will of God or to the fault of antiquity, it ought not to be a matter of censure. After the formation of the world man was created, the male being named Adam, and the female Eve. Having been placed in Paradise, they ate of the tree from which they were interdicted, and therefore were cast forth as exiles into our earth. To them were born Cain and Abel; but Cain, being an impious man, slew his brother.​

Augustine (Hippo Regius, Numidia (now Algeria) (354-430 AD)

The leading Amillennialist of the early fathers was Augustine. He explains his understanding of Revelation 20 and especially where the thousand years should be placed in The City of God, Book 20, Chapter 7:

One day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day, there should follow on the completion of six thousand years, as of six days, a kind of seventh-day Sabbath in the succeeding thousand years; and that it is for this purpose the saints rise, viz., to celebrate this Sabbath. And this opinion would not be objectionable, if it were believed that the joys of the saints in that Sabbath shall be spiritual, and consequent on the presence of God; for I myself, too, once held this opinion.

Now the thousand years may be understood in two ways, so far as occurs to me: either because these things happen in the sixth thousand of years or sixth millennium (the latter part of which is now passing), as if during the sixth day, which is to be followed by a Sabbath which has no evening, the endless rest of the saints, so that, speaking of a part under the name of the whole, he calls the last part of the millennium— the part, that is, which had yet to expire before the end of the world— a thousand years; or he used the thousand years as an equivalent for the whole duration of this world, employing the number of perfection to mark the fullness of time.​

Augustine explains his understanding of Revelation 20 and especially where the thousand years should be placed in The City of God, Book 22, Chapter 30:

The seventh shall be our Sabbath, which shall be brought to a close, not by an evening, but by the Lord's day, as an eighth and eternal day, consecrated by the resurrection of Christ, and prefiguring the eternal repose not only of the spirit, but also of the body. There we shall rest and see, see and love, love and praise. This is what shall be in the end without end. For what other end do we propose to ourselves than to attain to the kingdom of which there is no end?​

The City of God, Book 12, Chapter 10:

They [pagans] are deceived, too, by those highly mendacious documents which profess to give the history of [man as] many thousands of years, though reckoning by the sacred writings we find that not 6,000 years have yet passed.​

Augustine in his Letter 55, Chapter 9:17 states:

If, in reading Genesis, you search the record of the seven days, you will find that there was no evening of the seventh day, which signified that the rest of which it was a type was eternal … the seventh day was an emblem, is eternal, and hence the eighth day also will have eternal blessedness, because that rest, being eternal, is taken up by the eighth day … Accordingly the eighth day, which is the first day of the week, represents to us that original life, not taken away, but made eternal.​

Of the Six Ages of the World (On the Catechising of the Uninstructed, 39):

Five ages of the world, accordingly, having been now completed (there has entered the sixth). Of these ages the first is from the beginning of the human race, that is, from Adam, who was the first man that was made, down to Noah, who constructed the ark at the time of the flood. Then the second extends from that period on to Abraham … For the third age extends from Abraham on to David the king; the fourth from David on to that captivity whereby the people of God passed over into Babylonia; and the fifth from that transmigration down to the advent of our Lord Jesus Christ. With His coming the sixth age has entered on its process; so that now the spiritual grace, which in previous times was known to a few patriarchs and prophets.​

 

[jgr]

Nope, and why would we expect that? Job attributed his suffering to God, not Satan.

God permitted Satan to do the afflicting.

Yet Job never saw the serpent.

 

[DavidPT]

You have admitted to me previously that you have not studied the early church fathers. I believe it shows in some of your conclusions. It is important for us to recognize the early peculiarities of these men before coming to conclusions. Barnabas has not one single description of a future millennium anywhere in his writings. It is all mistaken inference that Premils attribute to him due to modern partialities. He was a strong Amil.

And guess what, it doesn't necessarily always require years of studying something in order to put 2 and 2 together. BTW, I haven't gotten around to reading the book you just pasted, because it may as well be an entire book, as lengthy as it was. I only got this far thus far, what I quoted from your post above.

Let's look at what Justin Martyr concluded since it is apparently some of the same as Barnabas concluded.
---------------------------

Now we have understood that the expression used among these words, 'According to the days of the tree [of life ] shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound' obscurely predicts a thousand years. For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, 'The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,' is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, 'They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.' Luke 20:35f.
CHURCH FATHERS: Dialogue with Trypho, Chapters 69-88 (Justin Martyr)
------------------------------

that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem----meaning after the 2nd coming--day 7 to him.

and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place---meaning to him the great white throne judgment after the millennium.

'They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.' Luke 20:35f---meaning to him the beginning of a new age, the same 8th day Barnabas referred to, obviously.

Clearly, both Barnabas and Justin held some of the same views, in regards to these 8 days in question. If Justin concluded Luke 20:35f was meaning after the great white throne judgment, then so did Barnabas conclude the same thing.


What is not clear about their views, since it seems to be absent from their writings, is how they viewed satan's little season after the millennium. They couldn't possibly have had satan cast into the LOF at the 2nd coming, then a thousand years after that, followed by the great white throne judgment, since this ignores satan's little season altogether. Since these were intelligent men, there is no way they could have overlooked, that after the thousand years satan is loosed for a little season, then cast into the LOF. They would have had to have had zero reading compreshension if they overlooked those facts. Though it might appear from some of their writings that they have satan being cast into the LOF at the 2nd coming, maybe they were just telescoping instead, or whatever else might explain it if that doesn't, which it might not.

 

[sovereigngrace]

And guess what, it doesn't necessarily always require years of studying something in order to put 2 and 2 together. BTW, I haven't gotten around to reading the book you just pasted, because it may as well be an entire book, as lengthy as it was. I only got this far thus far, what I quoted from your post above.

Let's look at what Justin Martyr concluded since it is apparently some of the same as Barnabas concluded.
---------------------------

Now we have understood that the expression used among these words, 'According to the days of the tree [of life ] shall be the days of my people; the works of their toil shall abound' obscurely predicts a thousand years. For as Adam was told that in the day he ate of the tree he would die, we know that he did not complete a thousand years. We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, 'The day of the Lord is as a thousand years,' is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, 'They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.' Luke 20:35f.
CHURCH FATHERS: Dialogue with Trypho, Chapters 69-88 (Justin Martyr)
------------------------------

that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem----meaning after the 2nd coming--day 7 to him.

and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment of all men would likewise take place---meaning to him the great white throne judgment after the millennium.

'They shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.' Luke 20:35f---meaning to him the beginning of a new age, the same 8th day Barnabas referred to, obviously.

Clearly, both Barnabas and Justin held some of the same views, in regards to these 8 days in question. If Justin concluded Luke 20:35f was meaning after the great white throne judgment, then so did Barnabas conclude the same thing.


What is not clear about their views, since it seems to be absent from their writings, is how they viewed satan's little season after the millennium. They couldn't possibly have had satan cast into the LOF at the 2nd coming, then a thousand years after that, followed by the great white throne judgment, since this ignores satan's little season altogether. Since these were intelligent men, there is no way they could have overlooked, that after the thousand years satan is loosed for a little season, then cast into the LOF. They would have had to have had zero reading compreshension if they overlooked those facts. Though it might appear from some of their writings that they have satan being cast into the LOF at the 2nd coming, maybe they were just telescoping instead, or whatever else might explain it if that doesn't, which it might not.

Once again you fail to furnish us with one single quote from Barnabas describing a future millennium. That is because it does not exist. He was an Amil. The fact you have had to run to Justin Martyr for support demonstrates your lack of evidence.

One of the most thorough researches on the Epistle of Barnabas comes from Premillenarian historian D. H. Kromminga in his book Millennium in the Church. In it he gives lengthy consideration to the eschatological position of Barnabas. Kromminga emphatically concludes that he was not a Chiliast but was in fact an Amillennialist. He acknowledges: "Now, it would seem, that this argumentation would land Barnabas right in the lap of the millennium as a final period of this world’s history. He is perfectly aware of this and does not at all shun this consequence. However, he explains the statement that God rested on the seventh day, as follows: “this meaneth, when His Son, coming, shall destroy the time (of the wicked man) and judge the ungodly and change the sun and the moon and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day.” And the fact should not escape our attention, that in this chapter Barnabas links the notion of the rest with both the seventh and the eighth day."

He continues: "He seems to be of the opinion that there will be a seventh world period all right, but that period will be identical with the perfection of the eternal state. There can be no doubt about the identity of his seventh and his eighth day. The day of rest that is coming is one and the same day, viewed from 2 different aspects. From the viewpoint of continuity the great world–sabbath is a seventh day; but from the viewpoint of discontinuity it is the eighth, beyond and outside the present world–week. The future state is the last reckoning from creation; it is new, because of sin and redemption. This is the simplest meaning which I can discover in Barnabas’s words; but this is plain and pure Amillennialism."

Whilst Barnabas was not a Chiliast you can easily see how his 6 day/6,000 years theory opened up the door to the conclusion that the 7th day will also be 1,000 years long. Even though most of the early writers considered the 7th day as eternal, the whole basis of the idea of a millennial week was fraught will many factual discrepancies, human speculations and theological contradictions. A study of the early fathers will see that this faulty concept inevitably led to some embracing Chiliasm.

Stanley J. Grenz writes in The Millennial Maze: “The creation-day world-age theory that Justin and others employed did not necessarily lead to the materially oriented premillennialism of Irenaeus. This is exemplified by a work that probably predates the early apologist … the Epistle of Barnabas.”

Alan Patrick Boyd says in his master’s thesis presented to Dallas Theological Seminary (1977) “A Dispensational Premillennial Analysis of the Eschatology of the Post-Apostolic Fathers” and particularly his study of the Epistle of Barnabas: “In the light of the argument of the passage, can one conclude that the author (Barnabas) was a premillennarian? Probably not, for the following reasons. First of all, one must realize that a belief in six millennia of world history in no way obligates one to posit a seventh millennium in world history. In other words, the most modern scholarship can do is to assume that the Seventh Day, in the writer's thought, is a millennium since there is no prima facie evidence for it. One must not assume the part (six millennia) for the whole (seven millennia). Secondly, the concept of ‘rest from creation’ is given within the chronological framework of the second advent (15.5) and the beginning of the Eighth Day (15.8)” (p. 104, 105)

He adds: “Therefore, the Eighth Day can be said to begin at the Second Advent. In other words, the Seventh Day is eschatologically the beginning of the Eighth Day. Therefore, there is no interval (millennial or otherwise) between the Seventh and Eighth Days” (p. 105).

He continues: “The whole point of the chapter is that the Eighth Day is the acceptable Sabbath. In the light of this, the seventh Day plays no appreciable role. If the Seventh Day were a millennium that millennium is insignificant” (p. 105).

He explains: “In the light of this, it seems best to understand the Eighth Day as eternity, and since the Seventh Day is synonymous with the Eighth, the Seventh Day would also be eternity” (p. 105, 106).

He states: “In the light of the unity of the Seventh and Eighth Days, if a millennium were to exist, it would only be the threshold to, but within, eternity. It would be no interval between the present age and the eternal state (BOYD'S FOOTNOTE- this seems to be similar to Justin Martyr’s thought)” (p. 106).

He says: “In conclusion then, it seems best to conclude that Barnabas was not a premillennarian. The existence of an eschatological Millennium in the author’s thought can only be an assumption of modern scholarship” (p. 106).

He concludes: “…the sanctification of the Seventh Day, is not presently being fulfilled, but will be fulfilled when: 1) Christians are justified; 2) Christians are resurrected and rule the earth, 3) there is no more sin; 4) there is a new universe; 5) God causes everything to rest; and 6) God makes the beginning of the Eighth Day, i. e. – when God begins another world” (pp. 103-104).

 

[jgr]

Nope, and why would we expect that? Job attributed his suffering to God, not Satan.

1 Chronicles 21:1
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

David never saw the serpent.

Job 1:7
And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

A walking serpent who roams the earth. Does he stow away on boats or planes to increase his international mobility?

Matthew 4:10
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Jesus never saw the serpent.

Matthew 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

No one on that occasion saw the serpent.

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

No one has ever reported seeing the serpent taking away the word.

In all of the foregoing accounts of Satan's activity, there has never been mention of the literal presence of a serpent.

 

[Douggg]

Once again you fail to furnish us with one single quote from Barnabas describing a future millennium. That is because it does not exist. He was an Amil. The fact you have had to run to Justin Martyr for support demonstrates your lack of evidence.

One of the most thorough researches on the Epistle of Barnabas comes from Premillenarian historian D. H. Kromminga in his book Millennium in the Church. In it he gives lengthy consideration to the eschatological position of Barnabas. Kromminga emphatically concludes that he was not a Chiliast but was in fact an Amillennialist. He acknowledges: "Now, it would seem, that this argumentation would land Barnabas right in the lap of the millennium as a final period of this world’s history. He is perfectly aware of this and does not at all shun this consequence. However, he explains the statement that God rested on the seventh day, as follows: “this meaneth, when His Son, coming, shall destroy the time (of the wicked man) and judge the ungodly and change the sun and the moon and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day.” And the fact should not escape our attention, that in this chapter Barnabas links the notion of the rest with both the seventh and the eighth day."

He continues: "He seems to be of the opinion that there will be a seventh world period all right, but that period will be identical with the perfection of the eternal state. There can be no doubt about the identity of his seventh and his eighth day. The day of rest that is coming is one and the same day, viewed from 2 different aspects. From the viewpoint of continuity the great world–sabbath is a seventh day; but from the viewpoint of discontinuity it is the eighth, beyond and outside the present world–week. The future state is the last reckoning from creation; it is new, because of sin and redemption. This is the simplest meaning which I can discover in Barnabas’s words; but this is plain and pure Amillennialism."

Whilst Barnabas was not a Chiliast you can easily see how his 6 day/6,000 years theory opened up the door to the conclusion that the 7th day will also be 1,000 years long. Even though most of the early writers considered the 7th day as eternal, the whole basis of the idea of a millennial week was fraught will many factual discrepancies, human speculations and theological contradictions. A study of the early fathers will see that this faulty concept inevitably led to some embracing Chiliasm.

Stanley J. Grenz writes in The Millennial Maze: “The creation-day world-age theory that Justin and others employed did not necessarily lead to the materially oriented premillennialism of Irenaeus. This is exemplified by a work that probably predates the early apologist … the Epistle of Barnabas.”

Alan Patrick Boyd says in his master’s thesis presented to Dallas Theological Seminary (1977) “A Dispensational Premillennial Analysis of the Eschatology of the Post-Apostolic Fathers” and particularly his study of the Epistle of Barnabas: “In the light of the argument of the passage, can one conclude that the author (Barnabas) was a premillennarian? Probably not, for the following reasons. First of all, one must realize that a belief in six millennia of world history in no way obligates one to posit a seventh millennium in world history. In other words, the most modern scholarship can do is to assume that the Seventh Day, in the writer's thought, is a millennium since there is no prima facie evidence for it. One must not assume the part (six millennia) for the whole (seven millennia). Secondly, the concept of ‘rest from creation’ is given within the chronological framework of the second advent (15.5) and the beginning of the Eighth Day (15.8)” (p. 104, 105)

He adds: “Therefore, the Eighth Day can be said to begin at the Second Advent. In other words, the Seventh Day is eschatologically the beginning of the Eighth Day. Therefore, there is no interval (millennial or otherwise) between the Seventh and Eighth Days” (p. 105).

He continues: “The whole point of the chapter is that the Eighth Day is the acceptable Sabbath. In the light of this, the seventh Day plays no appreciable role. If the Seventh Day were a millennium that millennium is insignificant” (p. 105).

He explains: “In the light of this, it seems best to understand the Eighth Day as eternity, and since the Seventh Day is synonymous with the Eighth, the Seventh Day would also be eternity” (p. 105, 106).

He states: “In the light of the unity of the Seventh and Eighth Days, if a millennium were to exist, it would only be the threshold to, but within, eternity. It would be no interval between the present age and the eternal state (BOYD'S FOOTNOTE- this seems to be similar to Justin Martyr’s thought)” (p. 106).

He says: “In conclusion then, it seems best to conclude that Barnabas was not a premillennarian. The existence of an eschatological Millennium in the author’s thought can only be an assumption of modern scholarship” (p. 106).

He concludes: “…the sanctification of the Seventh Day, is not presently being fulfilled, but will be fulfilled when: 1) Christians are justified; 2) Christians are resurrected and rule the earth, 3) there is no more sin; 4) there is a new universe; 5) God causes everything to rest; and 6) God makes the beginning of the Eighth Day, i. e. – when God begins another world” (pp. 103-104).

Why are you posting such lengthy excerpts? People are not going to read those types of posts.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Why are you posting such lengthy excerpts? People are not going to read those types of posts.

Speak for yourself. I get plenty of positive feedback in regard to such posts over the years. Now will you address the evidence?

 

[DavidPT]

Speak for yourself. I get plenty of positive feedback in regard to such posts over the years. Now will you address the evidence?

As to that post where I indicated may as well have been a book, as lengthy as it was, though I hadn't yet gotten around to reading it, I probably will get around to reading it, though. It's that it is still too early in the day for someone like me to be able to read something that lengthy and remain focused on what I'm reading. I honestly do want to read what all you said in that post, regardless that it is rather lengthy, since there is a possibility that what you submitted might cause me to rethink some of this. It will probably be after lunch, though.

 

[Just The Facts]

Hello Sovreringrace

Your continuous piling up of statements and false teachings of post 150 premill teachers just proves what I have been saying all along. Now as for Barnabas.

Barnabas 1:7
For the Lord made known to us by His prophets things past and present, giving us likewise the firstfruits of the taste of things future.

The last offence is at hand, concerning which the scripture speaketh, as Enoch saith. For to this end the Master hath cut the seasons and the days short, that His beloved might hasten and come to His
inheritance.

Here Barnabas states quite clearly that the prophets say things are yet future. He is talking about what all amills have denied since the first false teacher made a case for this doctrine of men. The Kingdom has not yet come.

Now we know that this Epistle is written between 70 AD and 95 AD you can date it by events he speaks of as past. When he wrote this Epistle Judea had fallen or was at least in the middle of being Destroyed by Rome

Here he clearly states that The Prophet Daniel and the Four Beast and the Ten Kings was not yet finished.

Barnabas 4:3
The last offence is at hand, concerning which the scripture speaketh, as Enoch saith. For to this end the Master hath cut the seasons and the days short, that His beloved might hasten and come to His
inheritance.

This epistle was most likely written in about 70-95 AD Here he clearly states that The Prophet Daniel and the Four Beast and the Ten Kings was not yet finished.

In verses 4-7 he clearly shows his belief that the Fourth Beast is Rome and that out of Rome 10 kings will arise. The fact that he goes on to say that the Jews have been defeated and that they have no inheritance shows it is at least after the Fall of Jerusalem if not post Messada.

There are two other very interesting points of note here.

1. He does not quote Revelation showing that it was not yet written. Justin Martyr does quote revelation but Barnabas does not. Which also clearly shows us Revelation was written after the fall of Jerusalem.

2. He Quotes Enoch a book the Amills Destroy and put to death anyone who tried to keep a copy. In fact there are over 35 references or direct quotes of Enoch in Cannon Scripture.

Amills see phrases like the kingdom is in you and my kingdom is not of this world to mean they have license to spiritualize every verse they so chose. What they fail to understand is that the kingdom is in you means what jesus said do not fear those who take your life or fear death your reward your inheritance IE THE KINGDOM is assured and will come with me when I return with the Angles.

So now are you telling me that you believe Jesus has returned with the Angels and separated the sheep and goats??????????????????

It is a simple question although I have made this point no less they 5 times in this thread and other threads where amills try and push this false doctrine

 

[sovereigngrace]

As to that post where I indicated may as well have been a book, as lengthy as it was, though I hadn't yet gotten around to reading it, I probably will get around to reading it, though. It's that it is still too early in the day for someone like me to be able to read something that lengthy and remain focused on what I'm reading. I honestly do want to read what all you said in that post, regardless that it is rather lengthy, since there is a possibility that what you submitted might cause me to rethink some of this. It will probably be after lunch, though.

I appreciate that. I also try to read the posts I am addressing. That is only fair.

 

[Timtofly]

God told the serpent that he would bruise Christ's heel, several thousand years into the future when Christ came.

Would you agree that that was a remarkable lifespan for an individual serpent?

Satan gave snakes a bad rep. They even lost their legs. Evidently some evolved their legs back eventually. Or do you feel some snakes never had legs to begin with, and only a certain type of snake lost it's legs? Yes that old serpent is still old today, 1900 years later.

 

[Timtofly]

I've never once mentioned Revelation 20 in this discourse.

Why shy away from John's double witness of who Satan is? If you missed the explanation the first time, John gives it again in that chapter that shall not be named.

 

[sovereigngrace]

Hello Sovreringrace

Your continuous piling up of statements and false teachings of post 150 premill teachers just proves what I have been saying all along. Now as for Barnabas.

Barnabas 1:7
For the Lord made known to us by His prophets things past and present, giving us likewise the firstfruits of the taste of things future.

The last offence is at hand, concerning which the scripture speaketh, as Enoch saith. For to this end the Master hath cut the seasons and the days short, that His beloved might hasten and come to His
inheritance.

Here Barnabas states quite clearly that the prophets say things are yet future. He is talking about what all amills have denied since the first false teacher made a case for this doctrine of men. The Kingdom has not yet come.

Now we know that this Epistle is written between 70 AD and 95 AD you can date it by events he speaks of as past. When he wrote this Epistle Judea had fallen or was at least in the middle of being Destroyed by Rome

Here he clearly states that The Prophet Daniel and the Four Beast and the Ten Kings was not yet finished.

Barnabas 4:3
The last offence is at hand, concerning which the scripture speaketh, as Enoch saith. For to this end the Master hath cut the seasons and the days short, that His beloved might hasten and come to His
inheritance.

This epistle was most likely written in about 70-95 AD Here he clearly states that The Prophet Daniel and the Four Beast and the Ten Kings was not yet finished.

In verses 4-7 he clearly shows his belief that the Fourth Beast is Rome and that out of Rome 10 kings will arise. The fact that he goes on to say that the Jews have been defeated and that they have no inheritance shows it is at least after the Fall of Jerusalem if not post Messada.

There are two other very interesting points of note here.

1. He does not quote Revelation showing that it was not yet written. Justin Martyr does quote revelation but Barnabas does not. Which also clearly shows us Revelation was written after the fall of Jerusalem.

2. He Quotes Enoch a book the Amills Destroy and put to death anyone who tried to keep a copy. In fact there are over 35 references or direct quotes of Enoch in Cannon Scripture.

Amills see phrases like the kingdom is in you and my kingdom is not of this world to mean they have license to spiritualize every verse they so chose. What they fail to understand is that the kingdom is in you means what jesus said do not fear those who take your life or fear death your reward your inheritance IE THE KINGDOM is assured and will come with me when I return with the Angles.

So now are you telling me that you believe Jesus has returned with the Angels and separated the sheep and goats??????????????????

It is a simple question although I have made this point no less they 5 times in this thread and other threads where amills try and push this false doctrine

You are going to have to submit some valid evidence in order to rebut what Amils are writing. So afar you haven't done that. All i see is you venting against Amil. Please tone your language down it is not advancing anything.

Re "The last offence is at hand" other translators similarly interpet this as "The final stumbling-block (or source of danger) approaches." You get the sense from the writings of Barnabas that he believed the end was near. Widespread persecution and tribulation were hurting the Church to such a degree that it conjured up apocalyptic pictures in the writer’s vision. But balancing this is the impending hope and consolation of final justice, judgment and retribution at the Lord’s soon return. Barnabas seems to be describing Satan’s little season which he calls “this wicked time.” He counsels believers: "Let us pay attention in these last days" for “the final stumbling-block is approaching” and the “Black One,” the “wicked prince,” is having his final assault upon the Church. Barnabas’ conviction that “the final stumbling- block (or source of danger) approaches” (or is near), seems to imply that we are nearing the end of Revelation 20 and not the start.

He says: “We take earnest heed in these last days.” He exhorts believers: “withstand coming sources of danger, as becometh the sons of God.” There is nothing in his writings that would stretch the last days to a period subsequent to the second coming, as modern Premils do.

 

[jgr]

Why are you posting such lengthy excerpts? People are not going to read those types of posts.

I read them. I'm people. They are gold mines of information.

If you don't read them, how would you describe yourself?

 

[Jamdoc]

God permitted Satan to do the afflicting.

Yet Job never saw the serpent.

and the point? Yes, outside of the Garden, and Jesus, no human has seen Satan.

Job accredited GOD for his suffering. He demanded to know why God was doing this to him, he never mentioned Satan.

so I don't get your point.

 

[Jamdoc]

1 Chronicles 21:1
And Satan stood up against Israel, and provoked David to number Israel.

David never saw the serpent.

Job 1:7
And the Lord said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the Lord, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it.

A walking serpent who roams the earth. Does he stow away on boats or planes to increase his international mobility?

Matthew 4:10
Then saith Jesus unto him, Get thee hence, Satan: for it is written, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God, and him only shalt thou serve.

Jesus never saw the serpent.

Matthew 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offence unto me: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but those that be of men.

No one on that occasion saw the serpent.

Mark 4:15
And these are they by the way side, where the word is sown; but when they have heard, Satan cometh immediately, and taketh away the word that was sown in their hearts.

No one has ever reported seeing the serpent taking away the word.

In all of the foregoing accounts of Satan's activity, there has never been mention of the literal presence of a serpent.

Satan is a seraphim, which the word means "fiery serpent", and he is also described as a dragon in Revelation.

People may not see him, but I believe that is the form he takes, is that of a dragon.

 

[jgr]

Satan gave snakes a bad rep. They even lost their legs. Evidently some evolved their legs back eventually. Or do you feel some snakes never had legs to begin with, and only a certain type of snake lost it's legs? Yes that old serpent is still old today, 1900 years later.

Snakes don't have legs, but the serpent literally does (1 Peter 5:8). He also literally roars and devours people. Quite a spectacle.

 

[Timtofly]

You have admitted to me previously that you have not studied the early church fathers. I believe it shows in some of your conclusions. It is important for us to recognize the early peculiarities of these men before coming to conclusions. Barnabas has not one single description of a future millennium anywhere in his writings. It is all mistaken inference that Premils attribute to him due to modern partialities. He was a strong Amil.

Barnabas is not the only consummationist to hold to the ‘6 days = 6,000 years theory’. Several other leading figures also held to it. Cyprian, Aphrahat, Hilary, Tyconius, Jerome, Sulpicius Severus and Augustine join Barnabas on the Amillennialist side (8 in total). Irenaeus, Hippolytus, Commodianus, Lactantius, Victorinus and Gaudentius hold it on the Chiliast side (6 in total). We may of course have overlooked others, but this alone shows us that this ‘6 days = 6,000 years theory’ was a common belief in the infant Church. If it wasn’t for explicit anti-Chiliast statements from some of these early church Amils, modern Premils would have lumped them all in the Chiliast camp on the grounds of their belief in this 6,000 years world-view.

Many of the early Church writers, irrespective of their end-time views, embraced the natural weekly cycle of six working days and one for rest and worship. This made it a lot easier for them to accept the idea of 6 days of history representing six thousand years followed by a sabbath rest, whether a literal thousand years (advocated by the early Chiliasts) or an eternal rest (held by the early Amillennialists).

Barnabas Alexandria, Egypt (A.D. 70-120)

Epistle of Barnabas: Chapter 15

"And sanctify ye the Sabbath of the Lord with clean hands and a pure heart.” And He says in another place, "If my sons keep the Sabbath, then will I cause my mercy to rest upon them.” The Sabbath is mentioned at the beginning of the creation [thus]: "And God made in six days the works of His hands, and made an end on the seventh day, and rested on it, and sanctified it.” Attend, my children, to the meaning of this expression, “He finished in six days.” This implieth that the Lord will finish all things in six thousand years, for a day is with Him a thousand years. And He Himself testifieth, saying, “Behold, to-day will be as a thousand years.” Therefore, my children, in six days, that is, in six thousand years, all things will be finished.
​

Epistle of Barnabas: Chapter 15

“And He rested on the seventh day.” This meaneth: when His Son, coming [again], shall destroy the time of the wicked man, and judge the ungodly, and change the-sun, and the moon, and the stars, then shall He truly rest on the seventh day.​

Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage, North Africa, (AD 200-258)

Treatise XI, Exhortation to Martyrdom, 11

What, indeed, do we find in the Maccabees of seven brethren, equals alike in their lot of birth and virtues, filling up the number seven in the sacrament of a perfected completion? Seven brethren were thus associating in martyrdom, as the first seven days in the divine arrangement containing seven thousand of years, as the seven spirits and seven angels which stand and go in and out before the face of God, and the seven-branched lamp in the tabernacle of witness, and the seven golden candlesticks in the Apocalypse, and the seven columns in Solomon upon which Wisdom built her house.​

Contrary to what come Premils might take from this, Cyprian actually believed the world was created in 7,000 years. He actually held that the world would then last 6,000 years followed by the eternal Sabbath.

Chapter 2

It is an ancient adversary and an old enemy with whom we wage our battle: six thousand years are now nearly completed since the devil first attacked man. All kinds of temptation, and arts, and snares for his overthrow, he has learned by the very practice of long years. If he finds Christ's soldier unprepared, if unskilled, if not careful and watching with his whole heart; he circumvents him if ignorant, he deceives him incautious, he cheats him inexperienced. But if a man, keeping the Lord's precepts, and bravely adhering to Christ, stands against him, he must needs be conquered, because Christ, whom that man confesses, is un-conquered.​

Aphrahat

The Demonstration Concerning Love Is Completed, 14.

But be not offended, beloved, by the word which is written unto thee, that by the division of His day God spared Jerusalem; for thus it is written by David in the ninetieth Psalms: "A thousand years in the eyes of the Lord are as a day which was completed and has passed away." And also our learned teachers say thus, that in the similitude of six days God made the world, and for the consummation of the world six thousand years were appointed, and there was to be a Sabbath of God in the similitude of the Sabbath which was after the six days, as our Saviour revealed and showed us concerning the Sabbath, for He spake thus: "Pray that your flight may not be in the Winter or on the Sabbath." And also the Apostle said: "There remaineth still a Sabbath of God. Let us give diligence also that we may enter into its rest." ​

Hilary Bishop of Poitiers

His Commentary on Matthew 17 explain:

After six days, Peter, James and John were taken apart from the others and brought to the top of the mountain. As they were looking on, the Lord was transfigured and resplendent in all the brilliance of his garments. In this manner there is preserved an underlying principle, a number and an example. It was after six days that the Lord was shown in his glory by his clothing; that is; the honour of the heavenly kingdom is prefigured in the unfolding of six thousand years.

After six days, the aspect of the Lord’s glory is shown: that is, six times of a thousand years having gone by, the honour of the heavenly kingdom is prefigured.​

Hilary did not anticipate an earthly millennial kingdom after the 6000 years has been expired. No, he, rather, anticipated a “heavenly kingdom.”

Tyconius, Africa (c. 330-390)

Libellus Regularis, Rule V.6

Several times, one day is 1000 years just as it is written: “in the day you taste from the tree you shall surely die” and the first seven days or seven thousand years: the Lord worked for six days “and rested from all his works on the seventh day and he blessed and sanctified it.” However, the Lord says “my father is working still.” For just as he worked this world for six days, so he works the spiritual world, which is the church, for six thousand years; and he is going to stop on the seventh day, which he has blessed and made eternal.

That is why, among the rest of his commands, the Lord taught nothing more sharply than that we observe and love the Sabbath day. However, he who does the precepts of God loves the Sabbath of rest. Therefore God warns the people not to enter the gates of Jerusalem with a load on the Sabbath day, and he threatens the gates and one going in and out through them … and if you will not hear me so that you will keep the Sabbath day holy, as not to carry loads not enter the gates of Jerusalem on the Sabbath day then I will kindle a fire and it’s gates, and it shall consume the routes to Jerusalem and it’s still not be extinguished.​

Jerome Working from Rome, Italy (331-420 AD)

In 414 Jerome wrote in Epistle 140, 8 (PL 22. c. 1172)

I think it is on the basis of this passage [Psalms 90:4] and ... Peter's epistle that it has become customary for 1000 years to be called a day... so that since the world was created in six days, it is thought that it will last 6000 years, after which will come the number 7 and the ogdoad where the celebration of the true Sabbath will take place and the true circumcision.​

Against Jovinianus (Book II) Chapter 25.

Being in bondage during the six days of this world, on the seventh day, the true and eternal Sabbath, we shall be free. ​

Epistle 139:8

“A thousand years in thy sight as yesterday.” From this passage, and from the epistle which is attributed to the apostle Peter, I conclude that the custom comes of taking a thousand years for one day; with the result, that is, that just as the universe was fashioned in six days, so one believes that it will last only six thousand years, and that afterwards will come the sevenfold and the eightfold number, when the true Sabbath will be kept.​

Homily 3, on Psalm 7. FC 48, p. 26.

We have both a first and an eighth day; we receive the kingdom of heaven on the eighth; the eighth day after the sabbath is again the first day from the beginning.​

Epistle ad Cyprian supr. Ps. Lxxxix

I believe that in this place thousand years are commonly taken for a day, because this world having been made in six days, it is believed that it will last only six thousand years.​

Sulpicius Severus

(The Chronicle - Chronicorum Libri duo or Historia sacra, Book 1, Chapter II).

The world was created by God nearly six thousand years ago, as we shall set forth in the course of this book; although those who have entered upon and published a calculation of the dates, but little agree among themselves. As, however, this disagreement is due either to the will of God or to the fault of antiquity, it ought not to be a matter of censure. After the formation of the world man was created, the male being named Adam, and the female Eve. Having been placed in Paradise, they ate of the tree from which they were interdicted, and therefore were cast forth as exiles into our earth. To them were born Cain and Abel; but Cain, being an impious man, slew his brother.​

Quintus Julius Hilarianus, Africa, (written AD 397)

The Progress of Time, Chapter 18 & 19

When the Antichrist has been overcome and killed at the completion of the six thousand years, the resurrection of all the saints will take place while the world still stands … To the saints the resurrection will be one day, but this day of the saints will be prolonged so much that to the evil who will be living with pain in the world it will number a thousand years. After the seven-thousandth year, Satan will be loosed from his prison and will go forth to seduce the nations of Gog and Magog. He will bring them together as if ready to fight at the camp of the saints. Fire will descend from heaven and all men will be consumed, and then will be the second resurrection for all flesh and all will be judged by the just judgment of God because they have not all believed, but have done justice pleasing to themselves.​

Augustine (Hippo Regius, Numidia (now Algeria) (354-430 AD)

The leading Amillennialist of the early fathers was Augustine. He explains his understanding of Revelation 20 and especially where the thousand years should be placed in The City of God, Book 20, Chapter 7:

One day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day, there should follow on the completion of six thousand years, as of six days, a kind of seventh-day Sabbath in the succeeding thousand years; and that it is for this purpose the saints rise, viz., to celebrate this Sabbath. And this opinion would not be objectionable, if it were believed that the joys of the saints in that Sabbath shall be spiritual, and consequent on the presence of God; for I myself, too, once held this opinion.

Now the thousand years may be understood in two ways, so far as occurs to me: either because these things happen in the sixth thousand of years or sixth millennium (the latter part of which is now passing), as if during the sixth day, which is to be followed by a Sabbath which has no evening, the endless rest of the saints, so that, speaking of a part under the name of the whole, he calls the last part of the millennium— the part, that is, which had yet to expire before the end of the world— a thousand years; or he used the thousand years as an equivalent for the whole duration of this world, employing the number of perfection to mark the fullness of time.​

Augustine explains his understanding of Revelation 20 and especially where the thousand years should be placed in The City of God, Book 22, Chapter 30:

The seventh shall be our Sabbath, which shall be brought to a close, not by an evening, but by the Lord's day, as an eighth and eternal day, consecrated by the resurrection of Christ, and prefiguring the eternal repose not only of the spirit, but also of the body. There we shall rest and see, see and love, love and praise. This is what shall be in the end without end. For what other end do we propose to ourselves than to attain to the kingdom of which there is no end?​

The City of God, Book 12, Chapter 10:

They [pagans] are deceived, too, by those highly mendacious documents which profess to give the history of [man as] many thousands of years, though reckoning by the sacred writings we find that not 6,000 years have yet passed.​

Augustine in his Letter 55, Chapter 9:17 states:

If, in reading Genesis, you search the record of the seven days, you will find that there was no evening of the seventh day, which signified that the rest of which it was a type was eternal … the seventh day was an emblem, is eternal, and hence the eighth day also will have eternal blessedness, because that rest, being eternal, is taken up by the eighth day … Accordingly the eighth day, which is the first day of the week, represents to us that original life, not taken away, but made eternal.​

Of the Six Ages of the World (On the Catechising of the Uninstructed, 39):

Five ages of the world, accordingly, having been now completed (there has entered the sixth). Of these ages the first is from the beginning of the human race, that is, from Adam, who was the first man that was made, down to Noah, who constructed the ark at the time of the flood. Then the second extends from that period on to Abraham … For the third age extends from Abraham on to David the king; the fourth from David on to that captivity whereby the people of God passed over into Babylonia; and the fifth from that transmigration down to the advent of our Lord Jesus Christ. With His coming the sixth age has entered on its process; so that now the spiritual grace, which in previous times was known to a few patriarchs and prophets.​

Augustine was not sure. How can he teach a certain doctrine?

All the rest claim AFTER the 6 days. None claimed the Millennium was during the 6 Days. If the 7th is a Millennium, how can it not be viewed as the same as the other 6 Days? Not a single one declared there cannot be a thousand years before everlasting began. Not a one of them declared we will continue to live in the 6th Day, and we will call it a spiritual indefinite Millennium.

For one, they were wrong that 6000 years had already passed. Only 4000 years had passed. We can read and interpret the same OT, the scholarly Jews of the first century could. The OT did not magically change in the last 1900 years to make history shorter, or give us another 2k, making it now 8k. It was 4000 then, and almost 6000 now.

And there were other nations who gave even more time to creation, adding 10's of thousands of years. Only the Hebrews were conservative in their times. They relied on Exodus 20, for that interpretation.

None of them were denying a future 1000 years. The only reason you all today think they were amil is because the Millennium never happened. You are basing their thought on an unknown future to them.

When you can produce text where they declare there is no coming Millennium, you may get your point. When they declare they were living in the Millennium and Christ had returned after 6 Days, then you can declare the Millennium null and void. Not a single one claimed the Cross was the start of the Day of rest, where all of mankind's evils were over.

Why are you using Augustine's dispensationalism, to discredit dispensationalism? Augustine did not even go by literal Day equals an age. That is why they had the wrong amount. Since Augustine was in error, and you claim an amil, is that because of the error or not?

 

[jgr]

Satan is a seraphim, which the word means "fiery serpent", and he is also described as a dragon in Revelation.

People may not see him, but I believe that is the form he takes, is that of a dragon.

Then there's the bruise on Jesus' heel. Jesus fulfilled Scripture, but there is no mention of a physical bruise caused by a physical serpent.

So it must have been a spiritual bruise caused by a spiritual serpent.

As Genesis 3:15 describes.

 

[DavidPT]

Hilary Bishop of Poitiers

His Commentary on Matthew 17 explain:

After six days, Peter, James and John were taken apart from the others and brought to the top of the mountain. As they were looking on, the Lord was transfigured and resplendent in all the brilliance of his garments. In this manner there is preserved an underlying principle, a number and an example. It was after six days that the Lord was shown in his glory by his clothing; that is; the honour of the heavenly kingdom is prefigured in the unfolding of six thousand years.

After six days, the aspect of the Lord’s glory is shown: that is, six times of a thousand years having gone by, the honour of the heavenly kingdom is prefigured.​

Hilary did not anticipate an earthly millennial kingdom after the 6000 years has been expired. No, he, rather, anticipated a “heavenly kingdom.”

How is one able to conclude that from just that little bit, that he never anticipated an earthly millennial kingdom after the 6000 years has been expired? What we need to get on the same page about, what is being meant by an earthly millennial kingdom? There will only be one kingdom remaining in the end, that being the everlasting kingdom. And since I see that kingdom literally coming to earth as of the 2nd coming, thus to me it is then meaning this same "heavenly kingdom" meant, and that if there are a thousand years after the 2nd coming, it would simply be the first 1000 years of this same heavenly kingdom meant.

Quintus Julius Hilarianus, Africa, (written AD 397)

The Progress of Time, Chapter 18 & 19

When the Antichrist has been overcome and killed at the completion of the six thousand years, the resurrection of all the saints will take place while the world still stands … To the saints the resurrection will be one day, but this day of the saints will be prolonged so much that to the evil who will be living with pain in the world it will number a thousand years. After the seven-thousandth year, Satan will be loosed from his prison and will go forth to seduce the nations of Gog and Magog. He will bring them together as if ready to fight at the camp of the saints. Fire will descend from heaven and all men will be consumed, and then will be the second resurrection for all flesh and all will be judged by the just judgment of God because they have not all believed, but have done justice pleasing to themselves.​

You're not claiming this one as an Amil, are you? Why did you even include this one?

I pretty much read through this post now. Some of what you posted, though some of them believed in 6000 years of earth history, while some of them also apparently believed in creation days involving a thousand years each, which is something I don't agree with, it does appear that a lot of them were not anticipating another thousand years following the 2nd coming. What I don't see though, unless I missed it, which is possible, but was present in Barnabas' writings, is the mention of an eighth day. We have to keep in mind that Barnabas mentioned 8 days not 7 days.