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What you wrote in your previous post does not rebutt that Satan is not in any text of the New Testament said to be currently in chains, nor in the bottomless pit.I refer you back to my last post that rebuts this.
You cannot divorce the earthly ministry of Christ as being integral to the defeat of Satan, just like you cannot divorce the first resurrection of Christ from the same. It was all apart of our Lord's defeat of Satan.
There is no spiritual prison for spirits. All spirits are in God's presence. A demon is a spirit that can no longer stand to be in God's presence. They come to earth to possess those stupid enough to open their minds to the occult world. If demons leave and come back again, where does it specify they are chained up somewhere? Jesus using allegory is just that, allegory. Allegory does not physically nor spiritually bind. It is a figure of speech showing how these forces cannot harm those who put their faith and trust in God. When Jesus uses this symbolism, you turn it into a literal binding. When John in Revelation 20 shows a literal chain and pit, you turn that into symbolism.It is equally wrong to believe that Revelation 20 is a literal depiction describing the devil being physically chained, tossed into a physical abyss, and physically sealed so that he cannot deceive the nations anymore and yet still walk about this earth seeking whom he may devour. Amils don’t accept that this is physical language neither do they believe that spirits are physically chained and that they can be restrained by a literal prison. They believe that they are spiritually chained in a spiritual prison.
The "words of Jesus" does not equal the "Second Coming." These are two different phenomenon.Thats exactly what Jesus said Tim
Matt 24
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.
[ Quote Tim ]
Jesus also mentions Noah after heaven and earth pass away. Pretty sure the order of Jesus' words in the OD are not chronological according to when events happen.]
The Lord is not the author of confusion Tim.
The days of Noah saw all life on earth pass away. The coming of the Son of Man will be just like that , with the addition of everything in heaven passing away as well.
So H/E pass away at his coming.
Jesus also spoke of the H/E passing in the book of Revelation. He is speaking of the same event as Gods written word does not change its mind. So let us fix our eyes on what Jesus has said and repeated.
What was the context again?Out of context.
No we do not reject this power over Satan during the last 1991 years. The past is the past. We are talking about the future. What happens in the future does not negate nor change the past. That is a nonsense argument, because all that amil propose is just more of the same, "what if's".To sustain the Premil doctrine you have to ignore/reject the injury Satan sustained through the life, death and resurrection of Christ. You have to ignore/reject the victorious New Testament message that Satan is a defeated foe that has been stripped of his previous power and influence through the spiritual binding in spiritual chains. You have to ignore/reject the Gospel expanse to the Gentiles in the great commission. You have to present an unrestrained Satan being able to do whatever he wants (including thwart the Gospel). You elevate the devil and and diminish God, you portray a powerful kingdom of darkness and a weak kingdom of God. This is all wrong.
No one here made up a rebellion.What was the context again?
God bless
Seems you missed this:
Colossians 1
12 Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: 13 Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son:
Have you not been translated into the kingdom?
The context is the nations that rebel against Jesus's rule on this earth, his everlasting kingdom's judgment and justice*, at the end of the thousand years as a test to see if they had learned anything.What was the context again?
God bless
They will rebel before Jesus Returns.Paul assures all who do see Jesus at his coming that they will dwell with him forever more.
Yet your claiming some will rebel.
It is so hard to engage with you as you bounce from one subject to another.
When one of your claims is rebutted, then you quickly move to another claim. When that is rebutted you move back to an already rebutted claim. That is one way to avoid the issues. Notwithstanding, I will try again.
The true Church of Jesus Christ is a resistance movement. While Satan resists us, the Bible says we have power to resist him, and subjugate his purposes against us. We resist the lawlessness and evil encroachments of the devil around us.
In fact, James 4:7 tells us what happens when you do resist, “Resist the devil, and he will flee from you.”
When you are tuned into heaven, when you are connected to heaven, all things are possible. God is big and the devil is small. The light is shining and the darkness is dispelled. Peace prevails and the power ensues.
Yet you want to divorce the second coming from that defeat, because you claim it's all done at the first coming.
Hello Sov
What are you going on about now........ that post was on one subject and one subject only proving 2 Peter 3: and that Peter taught Premill.
I notice that is how you start ever reply to everyone a personal attack aimed at belitteling the person and there by elevating yourself in your own eyes always based on nothing but your imagination for the most part.
Here you go again...... calling the the kettle black. That is what you do continuously and I will show you in this very post that you are doing it.
Quote "sovereigngrace, post: 76236412, member: 424622"]With the coming of Christ to this earth came the introduction of His spiritual kingdom. With the introduction of His spiritual kingdom came a direct challenge to the power and influence of Satan on planet earth. With the direct challenge to the power and influence of Satan on planet earth came the spiritual empowerment of the people of God to confront and overcome Satan and his demonic angels.
Wherever the Church advances, the work of Satan is bound!!!
Christ said, to the disciples in Luke 10:19, “Behold, I give unto you power to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy: and nothing shall by any means hurt you.”
When you are tuned into heaven, when you are connected to heaven, all things are possible. God is big and the devil is small. The light is shining and the darkness is dispelled. Peace prevails and the power ensues. End Quote
And now we see that you are the very thing you say of other...... you are the pot callin the kettle black.
- I answered this point over 13 pages ago in post #209 Yet here we are back at the same point I already disproved.
- Like I said in Post #410. If you say something and it is in error saying it a dozen more times does not make it correct it is still in error.
You are doing it again You are using verses that prove you are wrong and twisting them to say you are right.
If the Devil is bound how can he flee how can he tempt you. The Answer is simple because the Kingdom has not come we will inherit it when Jesus returns.
You are just so wrong it is hard to fathom how you could be so wrong. There is no Peace. The prophets do not speak of a spiritual peace. They speak of this
[2] It shall come to pass in the latter days that the mountain of the house of the LORD shall be established as the highest of the mountains, (Rv:21:10)and shall be raised above the hills; and all the nations shall flow to it,(Rv:21:24) [3] and many peoples shall come, and say: "Come, let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, (Rv:21:24) to the house of the God of Jacob; that he may teach us his ways and that we may walk in his paths." For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem. [4] He shall judge between the nations, (Matt:25:32) and shall decide for many peoples; and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruning hooks; nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more. (Rv:20:4)
They learn war no more. Satan Deceiving the nations is not him stoping the gospel from being spread it is from him teach and praising war as good and Christianity has fallen right into his trap starting with the Synod at Arlens in 314AD.
And No I am not jumping around I am addressing your point above in the quoted txt. I am showing you that you are just wrong about everything there is no peace.
Here is verse 3:
[3] and threw him into the pit, and shut it and sealed it over him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that he must be loosed for a little while.
Satan is bound so he can not deceive the nations. So what does scripture ssay that deception is?
Now verse 7,8
[7] And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison [8] and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle;
As you can plainly see the deception is to gather nations for battle.
Now how does this relate to the subject at hand THAT IS EASY look around the world is Satan still deceiving the nations drawing them to battle. So Satan is not bound , the 1,000 years or Kingdom has not come.
Jesus is the Prince of Peace Teaching Peace The King of the Pit is the God of war teaching war the exact Oposite of Jesus.
Sov I respect you have your belief and stick to it with great zeal. However I have dealt with all your points over the last 24 pages of posts and I do not have the desire or feel the need to go around the malberry bush with you over and over. As I said to another amill in a different thread I was raised Catholic almost became a priest so I know the amill teachings well. However I found them to have no light in them it was all a lie. It is like Santa clause I once believed but I found out it was a lie will I ever believe again of course not why would I believe something I know is a lie.
I think it is best if we just agree to disagree and call it at that. Peace to you my brother in Christ.
actually no matter how you look at it, Satan's "little season" results in massive rebellion, which Amillennialists will accuse anyone acknowledging that scripture as "stressing a powerful Satan and weak Christ"
But that's what scripture says, unless some Amill twists it around to deny the plain meaning and make it mean something else.
But really it's not powerful Satan, it's weak man.
Man that constantly desires more than what God gives them.
just provide an alternative deception that Man can get what he wants and oppose God and win, and man's weak enough to buy it.
No matter if you're pre mill, post mill, or amill, it's all the same. Satan gets loosed, and man flock to rebel.
I do not appreciate your tone and false charges.
It is also impossible to get you to address the apparent holes in your position.
It was the main view among the ECFs.
then bam the slaughter trucks pull up to take these same sheep to Jerusalem for slaughter. How cruel and pointless!
Hello Sov
Sov it is you that has a tone of arrogance in every post. Please go back and read your posts well over 50% start off with a derogatory comment about the person you are addressing. I have said nothing that is not true there is no false accusations.
Once again I have addressed every point you have made often 13 pages latter I have had to address then again as you circle back around to already disproven points. it is you who refuses to address the the gaping holes in amill doctrine. Just because you say something doesn't make it correct even if you say it dozens of times it is still in error.
You have not produced one single ECF pre 150 AD that was amill.
You have not produced one single ECF pre 150 AD that was amill. I have shown multiple verses of both Baranbas and Clement that show they were Premill. I have done this at least twice in this thread. Once again just because you say something does not make it true. Facts are Facts and the facts on this point are clear...
I have shown the ECF (pre 150 AD ) taught Premill including Clement and Barnabas.
Hi JGR
Thank you JGR you have demonstrated exactly what amills are lost about. You are a partaker in the inheritance you get it when Jesus returns. King James uses out dated english here is a more literal translation.
Bible in Basic English
1:12 and give thanks to the Father who has made us fit to receive our share of the inheritance of God's people in Light.13 Who has made us free from the power of evil and given us a place in the kingdom of the Son of his love;
No I have not been translated into the kingdom and neither has anyone else because Jesus has not returned with the Kingdom to give me my INHERITANCE.
Once again as I said before you can not use Pauls words to negate Jesus' words you have to see Pauls words in light of Jesus words not vise versa. Jesus is very plain in John 14: You get your inheritance WHEN HE RETURNS.
[2] In my Father's house are many rooms; (Holy Jerusalem) if it were not so, would I have told you that I go to prepare a place for you?[3] And when I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and will take you to myself, that where I am you may be also.
Clearly Jesus is saying only when he retruns do you get your inheritance your reward. Are you telling me Jesus already returned?
Here is another verse to prove the same point
[31]"When the Son of man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, then he will sit on his glorious throne.[32] Before him will be gathered all the nations, and he will separate them one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats, [33] and he will place the sheep at his right hand, but the goats at the left.[34] Then the King will say to those at his right hand, `Come, O blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world;
Once again we see Jesus saying in very plain language you get the inheritance at his return. NOW knowing what Jesus said look at Pauls words again.
1:12 and give thanks to the Father who has made us fit to receive our share of the inheritance of God's people in Light.13 Who has made us free from the power of evil and given us a place in the kingdom of the Son of his love;
The Inheritance you clearly get .....WHEN DOES JESUS SAY.......at his return.
Amills ignore Jesus plain words and by doing so they misunderstand what Paul is really saying. Are you really trying to tell me that Jesus was wrong and Paul was right. Or is it just possible that you are misunderstanduing Paul because you are not measuring his words in light of Jesus' very plain words.
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