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One Reason to Reject Amill Doctrine

sovereigngrace

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You are fighting with NT Scripture again. Matthew 12:22-29, Mark 3:11, 23-27, Luke 10:18-19, Luke 11:20-22, John 12:31-33 Colossians 2:13-15, Hebrews 2:14-15, I John 3:8, Revelation 9:1-11, Revelation 12:7-9 and Revelation 20:2 prove Satan was cast out, bound, defeated, incapacitated, divested of power, disarmed, brought to naught, undone, stripped and spiritually imprisoned through Christ's sinless life, atoning death and triumphant resurrection. Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.
 
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Jamdoc

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The scripture from the gospels is not even relevant to the talk of whether or not Satan is bound and unable to deceive the nations anymore, because you yourself say that it was at the cross, and these events took place before the cross, and yes, demons are subject to the authority of God. That's true whether they are bound or not.
What did you think that before Jesus was born God was totally powerless to do anything against rebel angels?
The angels from Revelation 9 have been there a lot longer than the cross.
and while Enoch is not inspired it gives details that they had been imprisoned since the flood, and Jude refers to this, leading to at least part of the Enoch narrative being true, even if not inspired scripture.
Jude 1:5-6

Yes, Satan's influence in the world is lessened by the Gospel
but it still persists.
what John wrote about in the MK? No Satanic influence at all for 1000 years.
 
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Douggg

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You are misunderstanding that passage. It is Jesus who personally overcame the world, the flesh, the devil, the pride of life - for our sake.

We as Christians still battle those things, which is what Ephesian 6 is about.
 
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keras

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As we are told; there will be a 1000 year reign of King Jesus after He Returns and toward the end of His reign, Satan will again be able to deceive people. Revelation 20:1-10
Just as the ancient Israelites were led astray, so again; will many be fooled by Satan. It is the final test for mankind and they will fail it, to their Eternal loss.

But those faithful people who are alive and remain, will never experience death. 1 Corinthians 15:50-56 will then be fulfilled.
 
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jeffweedaman

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You didnt address my question Keras.
 
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sovereigngrace

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You are misunderstanding that passage. It is Jesus who personally overcame the world, the flesh, the devil, the pride of life - for our sake.

We as Christians still battle those things, which is what Ephesian 6 is about.

That is all i get from you - a dismissal of the actual scriptural texts and a denial of the sovereign power of Christ and the delegated power He has given the Church today. There is no exegesis. You occasionally quote passages lately, but they notably do not support your Premil claims. But the fact you are now quoting the passages is letting is all see that you are not answering the questions.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Matthew 12:22-29 records, Then was brought unto him one possessed with a devil, blind, and dumb: and he healed him, insomuch that the blind and dumb both spake and saw. And all the people were amazed, and said, Is not this the son of David? But when the Pharisees heard it, they said, This fellow doth not cast out devils, but by Beelzebub the prince of the devils. And Jesus knew their thoughts, and said unto them, Every kingdom divided against itself is brought to desolation; and every city or house divided against itself shall not stand: And if Satan cast out Satan, he is divided against himself; how shall then his kingdom stand? And if I by Beelzebub cast out devils, by whom do your children cast them out? therefore they shall be your judges. But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you. Or else how can one enter into a strong man’s house, and spoil his goods, except he first bind [Gr. deo] the strong man? And then he will spoil his house.”

Just like Christ used the humility of a child and brought him forward in Matthew 18 and presented him as an example of what it is to be a Christian within the kingdom of God, He used this incident with the subjugation of a demon as an opportunity to highlight the power He had over Satan and presented it as forceful evidence of the spiritual restraint Satan suffered through His life, death and resurrection.

The Lord identifies the casting out of devils, and the resulting liberating of souls, with the actual binding of the strong man. He in turn presents this as proof that Satan is curbed through the presence and victorious function of the kingdom of God. Christ was specifically referring to Satan here (the strong man) and his demonic kingdom, and expressly connects his binding with the manifestation of the kingdom of God during His earthly ministry. The subjugating of devils was proof of the spiritual restraint of the evil one. Satan could not prevent this. Satan could not overcome those who had been rescued by Christ.

He came to the strong man's house (this sinful world) and spiritually chained Satan. He is like a dog on a leash that will only harm those that foolishly get close to him. He has power and movement but it is restrained and limited since the ministry of Christ. The devil was subject to the purposes of God and hurt by the spiritual advance of the kingdom of God. This kingdom is still alive and active today. Souls are still being marvellously delivered from the power of Satan. The binding of the strong man continues today wherever the Gospel prevails.

The setting of this story and circumstance of the demon possessed man was an opportunity for Christ to show the sovereign power of God and articulate a deep spiritual reality. The Lord did this often. What he was saying to these religious hypocrites was, ‘if I am of the same wicked house as that represented by the demon (He was casting out) then Satan’s house is divided’.

Our Savior demonstrates that the powerful deliverances He had accomplished were done by the Spirit of God. They revealed the power and presence of the kingdom of God. Christ showed that the kingdom of darkness was subject to the kingdom of God. To enter the strong man’s house was to come to earth and invade Satan’s kingdom with salvation and deliverance. Christ’s earthly ministry commenced the invasion of Satan’s house and the cross secured the legal binding. The blind and dumb man in this story belonged to the devil’s kingdom. Christ entered Satan’s evil house and rescued the redeemed, translating them into newness of life. Christ has been doing this ever since. There can be no other interpretation to take from this.

Remember, this was just prior to Christ’s death.

The spiritual chains that were placed on devils were ones that curtailed their movement. They could not do as they once did amongst the heathen. God had ordained the plundering of Satan’s house. And this began through the life, death and resurrection of Christ. This gracious work has been now ongoing for 2,000 years. Many from within the kingdom of darkness have now changed camps. “delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son.”

The binding spoken of here is obviously a spiritual restraint. Of course, the devil is the leader of the demonic realm. He is the representative of this vile house. When Scripture speaks of the binding of Satan it is inclusive of the whole kingdom he heads up. Through the Lord’s earthly ministry, Satan and his fallen angels were subject to a new arrangement – a playing field wherein he no longer calls the shots. They would now operate within very definite spiritual parameters sovereignly set by God. Christ had entered his territory and successfully took authority over his minions. The apex of this was of course the cross. That sealed Satan’s destiny and rendered him incapacitated in his activities.

Taking authority over the devil involves the binding of the strong man, before entering his house and casting him out. The binding here is the prelude to casting the devil out. Christ’s whole teaching here is a layered argument; He is building brick upon brick.

Mark 3:11, 23-27 also records: unclean spirits, when they saw him, fell down before him, and cried, saying, Thou art the Son of God ... And the scribes which came down from Jerusalem said, He hath Beelzebub, and by the prince of the devils casteth he out devils. And he called them unto him, and said unto them in parables, How can Satan cast out Satan? And if a kingdom be divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand. And if a house be divided against itself, that house cannot stand. And if Satan rise up against himself, and be divided, he cannot stand, but hath an end. No man can enter into a strong man's house, and spoil his goods, except he will first bind [Gr. deo] the strong man; and then he will spoil his house.”

This familiar discourse by our Lord came as a response to the crude scoffs of the religious Scribes dismissing Christ’s deliverance ministry as a work of Satan. Christ’s reply confirmed that the binding of Satan commenced 2,000 yrs ago and is not simply a future hope that will occur after the Lord’s return. Christ was firstly referring to the false charge that was laid at his door in relation to his assault on the demonic realm. Secondly, He was demonstrating the subjugation of the “unclean spirits” as “when they saw him” they “fell down before him” in surrender.

Christ’s earthly ministry expressly bound Satan and damaged his wicked house on this earth. This was indeed what was prophesied in the Garden of Eden. It didn’t say that the cross would destroy him, but hamper him in his schemes. His head was bruised by the supernatural punch of Christ.

The Lord confronted Satan head on in his own backyard and soundly defeated him. Everywhere that Christ went, demons were subject to his every word. This authority was in turn delegated to his disciples who operated this same spiritual power were ever they gone. His servants enforced his authority casting many demons out and seeing many men and women delivered from the power of Satan to the power of God. This was unprecedented. God's people, as a whole, had now power over the enemy.

Significantly, the Greek word deo (Strong’s 1210) employed here is the exact same word used in Revelation 20 which means to bind in either a literal or a spiritual sense. This is what happened everywhere the kingdom of God was seen, the kingdom of darkness was suppressed. Moreover, at Calvary, Satan’s power to deceive the nations was spiritual bound or curtailed by the finished and victorious work of Christ. Revelation 20:2-3 states, “And he (Christ) laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and deo (or) bound him a thousand years (or a long time), And cast him into the abyss, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more.”
 
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sovereigngrace

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No one is saying Satan's power has stopped. The reality is, it is curtailed by the cross-work and the spread of the Gospel light. The nations are no longer blind, ignorant and without hope as they were before the cross.

Imprisonment and chains are constantly used in Scripture to describe spiritual restraint. This is seen in how the Holy Spirit depicts the wicked. For example, Satan is presented in Scripture as imprisoning his followers and refusing to release them from his spiritual prison. The Gentiles are repeatedly depicted in the OT as imprisoned and being in chains. We see this is Lamentations 3:33-34, Psalm 68:6, 79:10-11, 102:19-20, 107:8-16, 146:7-8, Isaiah 14:12-17, 42:6-7, 49:8-9, 58:6-12, 60:1-3, 61:1 and 58:6-12.

So, were the unsaved Gentiles literal "prisoners" walking about in this world in literal physical "chains" confined to a literal physical "prison" before the cross?

Premillennialists have little difficulty accepting the spiritual reality that the wicked today are bound by spiritual chains of sin and are imprisoned by their own lusts in Satan’s prison and yet are able to freely operate physically on this earth. One wonders why they should then struggle with the concept of the spiritual binding of spiritual beings. Why would they dismiss the fact that the kingdom of darkness has been placed in such chains since the first advent?

It is equally wrong to believe that Revelation 20 is a literal depiction describing the devil being physically chained, tossed into a physical abyss, and physically sealed so that he cannot deceive the nations anymore and yet still walk about this earth seeking whom he may devour. Amils don’t accept that this is physical language neither do they believe that spirits are physically chained and that they can be restrained by a literal prison. They believe that they are spiritually chained in a spiritual prison.
 
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Jamdoc

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No one is saying Satan's power has stopped. The reality is, it is curtailed by the cross-work and the spread of the Gospel light. The nations are no longer blind, ignorant and without hope as they were before the cross.

Good
but that is the promise of Revelation 20, is that Satan's power is stopped completely for 1000 years.
 
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keras

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You didnt address my question Keras.
When Satan is released; at or near the end of the Millennium, he will again be able to deceive people. Those who will be alive at that time.
Many will fall for Satan's wiles and will join him to try and conquer Jesus. Their fate will be instant cremation. Revelation 20:9
Good
but that is the promise of Revelation 20, is that Satan's power is stopped completely for 1000 years.
So then ; Satan's little season may be after a 1000 years has passed since Jesus Returned.
There is not problem with that, it is in fact exactly what Revelation 20:7a tells us. THEN follows the GWT Judgment and Eternity.
 
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sovereigngrace

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Good
but that is the promise of Revelation 20, is that Satan's power is stopped completely for 1000 years.

No. It doesn't say that. You have been taught wrong. It says the Gentiles would no longer be deceived. The light has shone. The Gospel has spread. Countless millions have come to the truth since the first resurrection. Remember, before the cross, the Gospel was overwhelmingly limited to Israel. Now God is no respecter of persons.

In Acts 10, God uses a vision of unclean food to help the apostle Peter see that in Christ there is no longer any spiritual distinction between Jew and Gentile. God now accepts both equally on the same terms into His kingdom. Peter responds to this great monumental revelation in Acts 10:34-36: “I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all).”

The word interpreted “respecter” in the King James Version is the Greek word prosopoleptes which simply means: one exhibiting partiality. In fact, the New King James Version renders this, “In truth I perceive that God shows no partiality. But in every nation whoever fears Him and works righteousness is accepted by Him.”

This passage is crystal clear in its meaning and explanation of how God views all nations, peoples and tribes equally today. The reading makes it clear: God is no respecter of persons. This is not strange or outlandish; it is the constant theme of the New Testament. The Gospel is no longer restricted to the physical race of Israel but it has been opened up to embrace all nations. This means that God doesn’t accept anyone based on their nationality, color or status but rather on whether or not they fear Him. When it comes to salvation he looks at the inward rather than the outward. Those that fear him and walk righteously “in every nation” are now “accepted with him.” He is assuredly “Lord of all.” He has made all nations, tribes and kindreds the focus of His favor today. It is wrong to elevate one nation over another.
 
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jeffweedaman

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You still didnt address my question. Who will be alive at that time , as according to a previous post of yours no ungodly people will enter your millennium. Who is left to deceive.??
A future millennium will never happen as the day of salvation is today. You repent now as the Gospel goes into all the world or you perish for not embracing his truth at his coming.



2Thess 2
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains will do so until he is taken out of the way. 8 Then that lawless one will be revealed whom the Lord will slay with the breath of His mouth and bring to an end by the appearance of His coming; 9 that is, the one whose coming is in accord with the activity of Satan, with all power and signs and false wonders, 10 and with all the deception of wickedness for those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth so as to be saved.




satan is clearly released in all his power of deception PRIOR to his second coming.
 
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Jamdoc

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You accept God speaking hyperbole, I don't.
 
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Douggg

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I never said anything denying Jesus's sovereign power. I wrote the you misunderstood the passage, when you commented...

Colossians 2:15 tells us: “having spoiled (or divested or disarmed) principalities and powers, he made a shew of them openly, triumphing over them in it.” Satan has not been rendered immobile or inoperative but is limited in his power, kingship and influence by being defeated on the cross. He is like a dog on a chain. He is shackled.

...your commentary in blue and underlined doesn't even make sense. A dog on a chain cannot roam about seeking who he can attack. I guess you are trying to reconcile the Amil unbelief that Satan will not put into chains and the bottomless pit until after Jesus returns, and then released for a short time after the thousand years are over.

What Colossians 2:15 actually means in context is Jesus rendered Satan and his angels powerless to accuse Christians of sin unto eternal death, because Jesus triumphed over them in his death and resurrection. Jesus overcame the world, the flesh, the devil, and the pride of life.

It does not mean that Satan is "chained" from what in Ephesians 6:10-12 is called the wiles of the devil.

You never responded to the actual text of Ephesians 6:10-12, about Christians warring against powers and principalities in high places..

10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

12 For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

Satan is not in the bottomless pit. He is not bound, but warred against.
 
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jeffweedaman

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Nothing in there about the Second Coming being after heaven and earth pass away.

The only thing to remain are the words of Jesus.

Thats exactly what Jesus said Tim

Matt 24
35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will not pass away.
36 “But about that day and hour no one knows, not even the angels of heaven, nor the Son, but the Father alone. 37 For the coming of the Son of Man will be just like the days of Noah.



[ Quote Tim ]
Jesus also mentions Noah after heaven and earth pass away. Pretty sure the order of Jesus' words in the OD are not chronological according to when events happen.]


The Lord is not the author of confusion Tim.
The days of Noah saw all life on earth pass away. The coming of the Son of Man will be just like that , with the addition of everything in heaven passing away as well.

So H/E pass away at his coming.

Jesus also spoke of the H/E passing in the book of Revelation. He is speaking of the same event as Gods written word does not change its mind. So let us fix our eyes on what Jesus has said and repeated.
 
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sovereigngrace

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We all know that the wicked are spiritually imprisoned before conversion. The spiritual chains that afflict the wicked before salvation are real, yet everyone would accept that they do not curtail the physical movement of the wicked. They do not prevent the wicked performing their daily tasks and even doing murders, rape and thefts. The unrighteous perpetrate such things upon this earth yet they are assuredly afflicted by real spiritual chains. Notwithstanding, these chains slow the individual down and ensure that he remains within a prison. The chains that burden the wicked are heavy and clearly restrict their movement and curtail their freedom. This prison is spiritual but it does not prevent movement.

The same applies to the kingdom of darkness. The same chains that curtail the wicked in their evil (and they do) have been placed on the devil's spiritual realm since the cross. It does not stop their movement or evil. It curtails their movement and influence. We are simply looking at a restriction of the devil's power. Christ stripped Satan of many of his possessions - one of these was the power of death.

Amils view Revelation symbolically because it is saturated from start to finish in symbolism. Revelation 20 is no exception. Satan is not literally a dragon and at the same time a serpent, neither should we think that a spiritual being like the devil can be held with literal metal chains in a literal brick prison house. Amils take passages that are literal in their setting literal. We take passages that are symbolic in their setting symbolic.
 
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Douggg

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Satan is not in chains.

1Peter5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour:
 
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