One of the most controversial issues, is the DAY OF WORSHIP

[bekkilyn]

No, I do not---what I need and everyone else--is a passage in the NT that states "we do not need to keep the Sabbath anymore"-- otherwise, it stands as God commanded--that is all I am going to say.

Unless you are Jewish, the command was never given to you in the first place, so there is no "anymore".

 

[klutedavid]

Of course the 'New' (Everlasting/Eternal) Covenant is centered on Jesus Christ, since it was made between Father and Son, in eternity, witnessed by the Holy Ghost, and ratified by the blood of Jesus shed at Calvary and his death, and ratified by the Father in Heaven upon Jesus' ascension. I gave you those texts already.

Did you know that at the heart of the Ten Commandments is the name of God, the Creator (thus Redeemer)? The Ten Commandments are the promises of God to usward. All of them. They are His "I will" ... (Psalms 40:8, Jeremiah 31:33), etc.

The Law of God (Ten Commandments) are never "shadow" in all of scripture (and you cannot produce one text that says otherwise), they are always and eternally have been, and will be, "light":

Pro_6:23 For the commandment is a lamp; and the law is light; and reproofs of instruction are the way of life:

Isa_8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

As I said before, you are in gross error in understanding of Colossians 2, and because you have wrested it so, it will destroy you, if you do not repent of it. Peter warned you. You are without excuse (though you make many). Peter and Paul will rise in the judgment and condemn all such abuse of the words they have written under the inspiration of the Holy Ghost and for refusal to repent and obey God in His commandments, when they and others were so clear. Romans 6:1,15, 7:7; Hebrews 12:4; 1 Peter 2:22, 4:1; 1 John 3:4, etc, etc.

The Holy Ghost writes the "my (God's) Law" (Ten Commandments, context; Jeremiah 31:33) upon the heart.

Here is what the Holy Ghost writes:

Exo 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying,
Exo 20:2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage.
Exo 20:3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
Exo 20:4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
Exo 20:5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;
Exo 20:6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
Exo 20:7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
Exo 20:12 Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.
Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Exo 20:14 Thou shalt not commit adultery.
Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
Exo 20:16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Exo 20:17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's.

The Holy Ghost speaks that which He hears. The same Holy Ghost that wrote the Law of God on tables of stone, is to write that same Law upon the heart (the tables of the mind, the two hemispheres of the mind), as per texts already cited, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, 2 Corinthains, Hebrews, etc.

Otherwise, you have a differing law from another spirit, under another gospel.

The written law is for evil people.

You have been firmly placed under that law.

You are then required to obey the law to the letter, in it's fullest sense. That is the perfect, I will do it, the agreement of the people in the old covenant.

I pity you because you will continually fail to obey the written law. You will only ever become more and more aware, of your own reluctance to ever really obey the written law. Your flesh is dead in Christ, you must die to self in Christ. It is never what we do, it is all what Christ has done in us.

We have Christ within, we have the fruit of the Holy Spirit. We have been powerfully equipped to really love and forgive others. The true light has shone in the darkness, not the lamp of the law that dimly lights up the path.

We have the righteousness of Christ as a free gift. Not the self righteousness that the law delivers to those who enforce the written law.

 

[bekkilyn]

You assert that the 10 Commandments are the 'old covenant', but there is not a single scripture to state this, explicitly or implicitly. It is simply eisegeted.

It's all over the place, but reading Deuteronomy 5 would be a good start. It's very clear who this covenant was made with and it's also very clear that it includes the ten commandments.

 

[klutedavid]

Because Matthew's Gospel is directed to a Jewish audience and as Jesus was also a Jew he, Matthew and Matthew's audience would have followed the Jewish tradition. Jesus had not died and been resurrected so celebration his resurrection would not even be on the agenda at that time.

Remember when reading any scripture you should always follow the Law of the Three 'C's' context, context and context....

They will never understand that Matthew's gospel is written to a Jewish audience. They are taught that the entire scripture is addressed to them. They do not even understand that Jesus was sent to the Jews only.

There interpretation is deeply flawed, that is how they are taught to read the scripture.

 

[Dkh587]

The seventh day sabbath command was made to a very specific people...the nation of Israel

But so is the new covenant. The new covenant is with Israel, not Christians. Jeremiah 31:31-33

If you disregard the Sabbath/covenant because it was “given to Israel”, then you are cancelling your own argument because the new covenant is given to Israel, not Gentiles/Christians.

 

[klutedavid]

But so is the new covenant. The new covenant is with Israel, not Christians. Jeremiah 31:31-33

If you disregard the Sabbath/covenant because it was “given to Israel”, then you are cancelling your own argument because the new covenant is given to Israel, not Gentiles/Christians.

Correct, the Sabbath and the new covenant were given to the Jews only. Jesus was only sent to the Jews. The Jews come first and then the Gentiles.

Gentiles are grafted into the root which is Christ, Gentiles are not grafted into the nation of Israel. Rather the nation of Israel was severed because of failure to believe in Jesus Christ. Jerusalem was well and truly left desolate.

 

[liberty of conscience]

Unless you are Jewish, the command was never given to you in the first place, so there is no "anymore".

Adam wasn't a Jew.

Mark 2:27 KJB - And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:

Mark 2:27 GNT TR - και ελεγεν αυτοις το σαββατον δια τον ανθρωπον εγενετο ουχ ο ανθρωπος δια το σαββατον

Literally, '... the sabbath [of the LORD [JEHOVAH], the 7th day, context] was made/created for the man ...'

The only "the [definite article] man" [Hebrew: 'ha adam'] [singular] that was around when things were "made" [thus at Genesis], is "Adam" [and all humanity in him]. This agrees with, Genesis 2:7, which speaks of "the Adam":

Genesis 2:7 KJB - And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 HOT - וייצר יהוה אלהים את־האדם עפר מן־האדמה ויפח באפיו נשׁמת חיים ויהי האדם לנפשׁ חיה׃

Genesis 2:7 HOT Translit. - waYiytzer y'hwäh élohiym et-häädäm äfär min-häádämäh waYiPach B'aPäyw nish'mat chaYiym way'hiy häädäm l'nefesh chaYäh

Genesis 2:7 LXX* (so-called) - καὶ ἔπλασεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν ἄνθρωπον χοῦν ἀπὸ τῆς γῆς καὶ ἐνεφύσησεν εἰς τὸ πρόσωπον αὐτοῦ πνοὴν ζωῆς, καὶ ἐγένετο ὁ ἄνθρωπος εἰς ψυχὴν ζῶσαν.

Jesus was a Jew, and is the second/last Adam:

1Co_15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.

The "sabbath" (Genesis 2:1-3; Exodus 20:8-11; Hebrews 4:3, etc was "made" (at Creation, not Mt Sinai) for (the reason or purpose) "the" (definite article, singluar) "man", who is "Adam" and thus all mankind in Him, first or second.

Moses was not a Jew. God was the God of the "Hebrews" (Exodus 5:3).

Moses was Hebrew [Exodus 2:7,11 KJB], so also the midwives [Exodus 1:15 KJB], as well as others [Exodus 1:16,19; Deuteronomy 15:12 KJB].

Abraham was also Hebrew [Genesis 14:13 KJB], as was Joseph [Genesis 39:14 KJB]. The word Hebrew, comes from "Eber" [Genesis 10:21,24,25, 11:14-17; Numbers 24:24; 1 Chronicles 1:18-19,25 KJB], who is of the line of "Shem" [Genesis 10:21 KJB], of "Noah", etc., etc. unto "Adam".

The seventh day the sabbath of the LORD thy God is for all flesh of mankind:

Isa 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

As stated, Jesus Christ is the real Israel (and the real David, the real Solomon, the real Melchizedek; the real Joseph, the real Daniel, etc); Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; Jeremiah 31:34 ("house"); Hebrews 3:6 ("house"); John 16:33; Revelation 3:21 (overcomer); Genesis 32:28 ("prince"); Acts 5:31 ("Prince"). Israel means "prince/ruler (overcomer) with God".

Thus Jesus is Israel (Matthew 2:13-15; Hosea 11:1; his children are his disciples; Hebrews 2:13; Isaiah 8:16,18; John 13:33), who himself is the "elect" (Isaiah 42:1; Matthew 12:18; 1 Peter 2:6) of the Father, in whom all the promises of God find their realization (2 Corinthians 1:20). The promises made by God were all based upon condition (Exodus 19).

Mat 2:13-15; Hos 11:1; Jer 31:33; Rom 9:6-8; Heb 2:13; Isa 8:16,18; Jhn 13:33, 16:33, 17:12, 18:9, 21:5; 1 Cor 15:46; 2 Cor 1:20; Gal 6:16; Heb 3:6, 8:8,10; Rev 3:21

'Israel' "after the flesh" (outside of Christ Jesus), as a 'nation', is left desolate (Matthew 23:38; Luke 13:35), to bear no more fruit ever again (Matthew 21:19), cursed, withered away (Mark 11:21), dried up from the roots (Mark 11:20), "twice dead" (Jude 1:12), and the axe already laid at their root (Matthew 3:10; Luke 3:9), cut down and to be thrown into the fire.

 

[gordonhooker]

It’s unfortunate that you’re laughing and sneering.

Who's sneering? Not me that is for sure... I think it is quite amusing when someone makes a statement like it is a fact when it is only their opinion.

You and your ilk believe Christians should worship on Saturday rather than Sunday where we celebrate the resurrection of Jesus and a couple of billion don't believe we should celebrate on the Saturday. I for one would suggest you are wrong in your beliefs but I would not be so arrogant as to say it is a fact.

So lighten up and don't push your beliefs as a given and undisputable fact.

 

[Dkh587]

Who's sneering? Not me that is for sure... I think it is quite amusing when someone makes a statement like it is a fact when it is only their opinion.

You and your ilk believe Christians should worship on Saturday rather than Sunday where we celebrate the resurrection of Jesus and a couple of billion others don't. I for one would suggest you are wrong in your beliefs all I say is it not my belief.

So lighten up and don't push your beliefs as a given and undisputable fact.

Thanks for your opinion, but I was not sharing my opinion.

 

[gordonhooker]

Thanks for your opinion, but I was not sharing my opinion.

Go out and buy yourself a good dictionary like the Oxford dictionary look up opinion and then go back and look at your post that I originally replied to. That was an opinion.... because it sure as heck was not a fact, and that was the point of my response in the first place.

 

[Strong in Him]

Surely there is a job out there for you. God wants us to work but also rest from our labors. He definitely does not want us to be idle -

I'm not idle; I do voluntary work. Some people tell me that I'm doing too much.

even the Apostles commanded that we use our hands to make a living, to the extent we are able to work.

I'm sure they didn't put it like that - nor command that a person take any old job just for the sake of working.

including getting a job, especially a job where we are able to rest on the 7th day.

When I did work, I didn't always get regular days off - one week it might be Thursday and Friday, another week, Friday and Saturday. So my day of rest varied. If I got a job in a care home, that would probably be true again.
In the meantime, I have no specific job to rest from.

 

[Strong in Him]

The commandment is clear: keep the 7th day set-apart.

The command given to the Israelites.
What did Jesus say?

 

[liberty of conscience]

They are taught that the entire scripture is addressed to them.

For just such a dangerous statement:

2Ti 3:1 This know also, that in the last days perilous times shall come.
2Ti 3:2 For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy,
2Ti 3:3 Without natural affection, trucebreakers, false accusers, incontinent, fierce, despisers of those that are good,
2Ti 3:4 Traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God;
2Ti 3:5 Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
2Ti 3:6 For of this sort are they which creep into houses, and lead captive silly women laden with sins, led away with divers lusts,
2Ti 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
2Ti 3:8 Now as Jannes and Jambres withstood Moses, so do these also resist the truth: men of corrupt minds, reprobate concerning the faith.
2Ti 3:9 But they shall proceed no further: for their folly shall be manifest unto all men, as theirs also was.
2Ti 3:10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life, purpose, faith, longsuffering, charity, patience,
2Ti 3:11 Persecutions, afflictions, which came unto me at Antioch, at Iconium, at Lystra; what persecutions I endured: but out of them all the Lord delivered me.
2Ti 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Christ Jesus shall suffer persecution.
2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.
2Ti 3:14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them;
2Ti 3:15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus.
2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[liberty of conscience]

... the Sabbath and the new covenant were given to the Jews only ...

Please read:

Isa 56:1 Thus saith the LORD, Keep ye judgment, and do justice: for my salvation is near to come, and my righteousness to be revealed.

Who is that speaking of?

Isa 56:8 The Lord GOD which gathereth the outcasts of Israel saith, Yet will I gather others to him, beside those that are gathered unto him.

Who are the two groups mentioned in Isaiah 56:8?

Joh 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.

Who did Jesus say are the two groups?

Joh 21:15 So when they had dined, Jesus saith to Simon Peter, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me more than these? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my lambs.
Joh 21:16 He saith to him again the second time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? He saith unto him, Yea, Lord; thou knowest that I love thee. He saith unto him, Feed my sheep.
Joh 21:17 He saith unto him the third time, Simon, son of Jonas, lovest thou me? Peter was grieved because he said unto him the third time, Lovest thou me? And he said unto him, Lord, thou knowest all things; thou knowest that I love thee. Jesus saith unto him, Feed my sheep.

Who did Jesus say was the two groups?

Let's go back to the context of Isaiah 56:1-8 and see the sandwich between vs 1 and vs 8.

Isa 56:2 Blessed is the man that doeth this, and the son of man that layeth hold on it; that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and keepeth his hand from doing any evil.
Isa 56:3 Neither let the son of the stranger, that hath joined himself to the LORD, speak, saying, The LORD hath utterly separated me from his people: neither let the eunuch say, Behold, I am a dry tree.
Isa 56:4 For thus saith the LORD unto the eunuchs that keep my sabbaths, and choose the things that please me, and take hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:5 Even unto them will I give in mine house and within my walls a place and a name better than of sons and of daughters: I will give them an everlasting name, that shall not be cut off.
Isa 56:6 Also the sons of the stranger, that join themselves to the LORD, to serve him, and to love the name of the LORD, to be his servants, every one that keepeth the sabbath from polluting it, and taketh hold of my covenant;
Isa 56:7 Even them will I bring to my holy mountain, and make them joyful in my house of prayer: their burnt offerings and their sacrifices shall be accepted upon mine altar; for mine house shall be called an house of prayer for all people.

What is the "my covenant" in context? (Remember, "a name better than of sons and of daughters", "an everlasting name that shall not be cut off", "my house", "my holy mountain", "my house of prayer", (God lives in Heaven))

What is central to that "my covenant", mentioned throughout several times, that those who would join themselves to the LORD, "keep" and so "please" God?

Read Acts 4:24 (Jews) Acts 14:15-16 (Gentiles) and compare it to Exodus 20:11.

 

[mmksparbud]

Who's sneering? Not me that is for sure... I think it is quite amusing when someone makes a statement like it is a fact when it is only their opinion.

You and your ilk believe Christians should worship on Saturday rather than Sunday where we celebrate the resurrection of Jesus and a couple of billion don't believe we should celebrate on the Saturday. I for one would suggest you are wrong in your beliefs but I would not be so arrogant as to say it is a fact.

So lighten up and don't push your beliefs as a given and undisputable fact.

It is not arrogance to say that the 7th day Sabbath is a commandment from God. It is not Arrogance to state that there is no command from Jesus that says to worship on His resurrection day instead of the 7th. It is merely stating the obvious. You are free to keep whatever day you wish---Why then do you push your non-biblical day of worship on those who wish to do as God dictated and not as man decided?

 

[Strong in Him]

It is not arrogance to say that the 7th day Sabbath is a commandment from God. It is not Arrogance to state that there is no command from Jesus that says to worship on His resurrection day instead of the 7th.

There's no command from Jesus to worship on the 7th day either.
In fact Jesus never said that we should worship God on one day only.

 

[liberty of conscience]

In fact Jesus never said that we should worship God on one day only.

Straw man. Nobody ever said it (except your present intimation of it).

 

[mmksparbud]

There's no command from Jesus to worship on the 7th day either.
In fact Jesus never said that we should worship God on one day only.

Didn't have to---it was already commanded. He never said to not to continue keeping it. It was commanded to have that day set aside for Him. We worship every day--and the Jews had worship every day also, and still the 7th day was set aside strictly for Him--not doing your own work, not doing your own pleasure.

 

[liberty of conscience]

You and your ilk believe Christians should worship on Saturday ...

Mat 7:14 Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.

a couple of billion don't believe we should celebrate on the Saturday

Mat_7:13 Enter ye in at the strait gate: for wide is the gate, and broad is the way, that leadeth to destruction, and many there be which go in thereat:

The "sign" is posted. Turn around brother.

 

[gordonhooker]

It is not arrogance to say that the 7th day Sabbath is a commandment from God. It is not Arrogance to state that there is no command from Jesus that says to worship on His resurrection day instead of the 7th. It is merely stating the obvious. You are free to keep whatever day you wish---Why then do you push your non-biblical day of worship on those who wish to do as God dictated and not as man decided?

No it is not and I didn't say it was... what is arrogant is to tell everyone else that don’t see it your way that they are wrong and you alone have the truth...