One Jesus, two testimonies?

[Floatingaxe]

I am a Christian, and I am stating my understanding of the truth. It's fine for you to share your beliefs with me, but don't expect me to embrace them just because you state them. I don't expect you to embrace my beliefs just because I state them either. I don't expect you to embrace my beliefs at all; you are free to believe as you wish, and I accept that. I understand the truth in my way, just as you understand the truth in your way.

The basic flaw in your credo is that you believe is it is OK to differ in matters concerning salvation. It's not. Unity flows in the Body of Christ. But you sow disunity--that is the work of the enemy, and you have enlisted in his army unknowingly.

 

[Floatingaxe]

As for the topic, debates on "homosexuality" are debates about how Christians should treat gay people.

You wish. Debates on homosexuality are all brought about by homosexuals who want their perversion and claim Christ at the same time. Can't be done.

 

[Brieuse]

You wish. Debates on homosexuality are all brought about by homosexuals who want their perversion and claim Christ at the same time. Can't be done.

yes it can

 

[GenemZ]

I think that gay people are the spirit in this area.

Of course you, are. We all know that.

[We are the ones who know what "homosexuality" really is.

You do not know what it is. You only know what it involves.

People who read the Bible and then throw stones at gay people mostly do not know anything about us, from the way they write about us.

God is a Holy God. His righteousness can not be compromised as you want it to be. You wish for God to compromise his character in order to find you acceptable in his sight as being homosexual. That's absurd to his holiness.

You are NOT functioning in God's image when you actively live as a homosexual. That does not mean to say you will not find a form of happiness.

After all, fallen angels were quite content to live their own way outside of God's will. Why do you think they fell? They thought their way was better than God's.

Your sexual function is an insult to God's image. You are functioning in Adam's image after he fell. Not, God's. God did not make you that way. When Adam fell, he caused all of us to be born sinners.

Romans 5:12 (New International Version)
"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned."
​

Now, its correct to say, "Adam made me this way." But, its a complete falsehood to say God made you that way.

God did not. God died on the cross so his intended function for you could be restored by transformation in grace. But? For some? Like the fallen angels chose? You see your way preferable to God's way.

This is not all in vain. For, homosexuality is on display before all the angels as evidence in the courtroom of God. Because, this "preferred way" by some, is a direct reflection of what they witnessed to when their beloved friends chose to follow Satan, rather than the Lord.

The denials they witness to are just as absurd. And, the fallen angels know this by now. But, they keep trying to prove themselves justified as they inspire the gay movement with a hoped for happiness. One they can never achieve outside of God's design. Its a lie. One created out of a need for pride to be protected by denial.

You are showcased as evidence X. Proof that homosexuals can be happy in marriage. But once the crusade purpose is removed from your life? And, you become just another person? Then misery will prevail. For now you take great pleasure in your works to prove yourself an equal. Its the crusading for your cause you love. Remove that? And you life will be empty as we know it will be. For, your crusade depends on opposition to be happy.... To reveal how competent you are. How superior your thinking is to the closed minded ones (or so, you think it is).

Jesus might as well have fornicated if what you do is acceptable to God. That is what you prefer, is like to those who know God's Word.


Now? If you want to debate the merits of homosexuality in a secular forum? Be my guest.

Debate there with my blessings! For I will not try to go there and argue with you on worldly terms.

But, what you keep failing to realize. That for a Bible believing Christian to accept what you do? You are asking them to reject their God. Do you realize that? Of course you do not. For you yourself have said you do not believe any of that.



In Christ, GeneZ




.

 

[Floatingaxe]

yes it can

No it cannot. You cannot serve two masters....Jesus' words. Knowing Christ sets one at odds with sin. Therefore, sinning the sin of homosexuality, or approving it is setting one at direct odds with Jesus Christ.

He has nothing to do with unregenerate sinners. He will say, "Depart from Me, for I never knew you!"

2 Timothy 2:19
Nevertheless the solid foundation of God stands, having this seal: “The Lord knows those who are His,” and, “Let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity.”

Matthew 7:21-23 Paraphrased
Knowing the correct password—saying 'Master, Master,' for instance— isn't going to get you anywhere with me. What is required is serious obedience—doing what my Father wills. I can see it now—at the Final Judgment thousands strutting up to me and saying, 'Master, we preached the Message, we bashed the demons, our God-sponsored projects had everyone talking.' And do you know what I am going to say? 'You missed the boat. All you did was use me to make yourselves important. You don't impress me one bit. You're out of here.'

Luke 13:24-28
"Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. When once the Master of the house has risen up and shut the door, and you begin to stand outside and knock at the door, saying, ‘Lord, Lord, open for us,’ and He will answer and say to you, ‘I do not know you, where you are from,’ then you will begin to say, ‘We ate and drank in Your presence, and You taught in our streets.’ But He will say, ‘I tell you I do not know you, where you are from. Depart from Me, all you workers of iniquity.’ There will be weeping and gnashing of teeth, when you see Abraham and Isaac and Jacob and all the prophets in the kingdom of God, and yourselves thrust out."

 

[Floatingaxe]

If you want to debate the merits of homosexuality in a secular forum? Be my guest.

Debate there with my blessings! For I will not try to go there and argue with you on worldly terms.

But, what you keep failing to realize. That for a Bible believing Christian to accept what you do? You are asking them to reject their God. Do you realize that? Of course you do not. For you yourself have said you do not believe any of that.

AMEN!

 

[Zaac]

There are people who really are homophobic. Calling them what they are is not "bigotry;" it's accuracy.

You mean like referring to you as a nonChristian is accurate? You mean like referring to homosexuals as heterophobic?

I apply the word "homophobe" only to those who take the most extreme positions: people like Fred Phelps.

You seem to have a "what you do" approach to everything. Isn't it rather bigoted of you to push your application upon others and then term them homophobe?

I think most people probably agree that he is a homophobe.

I don't

I do not regard people who simply view "homosexuality" as a sin as necessarily homophobes. They may truly like and accept gay people but think that same-sex relationships are a sin. I think they are wrong in the latter viewpoint, but I would not label such people "homophobes." I think the term does not apply to them.

That's just my thinking about this.

As with God's Word, there is a standard of absolute truth in this instance. But as always, you opt with what you think. Why?

 

[Zaac]

God is a Holy God. His righteousness can not be compromised as you want it to be. You wish for God to compromise his character in order to find you acceptable in his sight as being homosexual. That's absurd to his holiness.

You are NOT functioning in God's image when you actively live as a homosexual. That does not mean to say you will not find a form of happiness.

After all, fallen angels were quite content to live their own way outside of God's will. Why do you think they fell? They thought their way was better than God's.

Your sexual function is an insult to God's image. You are functioning in Adam's image after he fell. Not, God's. God did not make you that way. When Adam fell, he caused all of us to be born sinners.

Awww Shoot Now!!! This warrants bringing out the Holy Ghost dancing Baby!!!

A big AMEN to all of this!!!

 

[Ohioprof]

You mean like referring to you as a nonChristian is accurate? You mean like referring to homosexuals as heterophobic?



You seem to have a "what you do" approach to everything. Isn't it rather bigoted of you to push your application upon others and then term them homophobe?




I don't




As with God's Word, there is a standard of absolute truth in this instance. But as always, you opt with what you think. Why?

Calling me a non-Christian is not accurate. I am a Christian. Calling gay people heterophobic is not accurate. There may be some gay people who are heterophobic, but you can't generalize to all gay people from the attitudes of a few. Calling Christians homophobic is not accurate. There are some Christians who are homophobic, but you can't generalize to all Christians from the attitudes of a few. Some Christians are gay.

There are people who really are homophobic, and calling them that is accurate. There are people who really hate gay people. There are people who really are non-Christians, and calling them that is accurate. There are people who do not call themselves Christians and who would say that they are non-Christians.

We have to be careful when we use broad terms to characterize people that we don't overgeneralize. I think most people probably would call Fred Phelps homophobic; he has a deep hatred of gay people, which he does not attempt to disguise. His attitude toward gay people is not "love the sinner, hate the sin;" it's "God hates gays." Most Christians reject this outlook.

Fred Phelps actively and openly espouses hatred of gay people. Just as someone who actively and openly espouses hatred of British people can accurately be called an Anglophobe, someone who actively and openly espouses hatred of gay people can accurately be called a homophobe. That's what a homophobe is.

Do you agree with Phelps when he calls for death to gay people and when he says, "God hates gays?"

As for why I repeatedly say what I think, that is what a debate forum is for: to say what we think. I have only what I think, as do you. You think that you have the absolute truth, but that's just your belief. I do not believe that what you regard as absolute truth is in fact absolute truth; it is simply your set of beliefs. I disagree with your beliefs, but I accept them as your beliefs, and I accept your right to hold whatever beliefs you want to.

 

[lincolngreen50]

Calling me a non-Christian is not accurate. I am a Christian. Calling gay people heterophobic is not accurate. There may be some gay people who are heterophobic, but you can't generalize to all gay people from the attitudes of a few. Calling Christians homophobic is not accurate. There are some Christians who are homophobic, but you can't generalize to all Christians from the attitudes of a few. Some Christians are gay.

There are people who really are homophobic, and calling them that is accurate. There are people who really hate gay people. There are people who really are non-Christians, and calling them that is accurate. There are people who do not call themselves Christians and who would say that they are non-Christians.

We have to be careful when we use broad terms to characterize people that we don't overgeneralize. I think most people probably would call Fred Phelps homophobic; he has a deep hatred of gay people, which he does not attempt to disguise. His attitude toward gay people is not "love the sinner, hate the sin;" it's "God hates gays." Most Christians reject this outlook.

Fred Phelps actively and openly espouses hatred of gay people. Just as someone who actively and openly espouses hatred of British people can accurately be called an Anglophobe, someone who actively and openly espouses hatred of gay people can accurately be called a homophobe. That's what a homophobe is.

Do you agree with Phelps when he calls for death to gay people and when he says, "God hates gays?"

As for why I repeatedly say what I think, that is what a debate forum is for: to say what we think. I have only what I think, as do you. You think that you have the absolute truth, but that's just your belief. I do not believe that what you regard as absolute truth is in fact absolute truth; it is simply your set of beliefs. I disagree with your beliefs, but I accept them as your beliefs, and I accept your right to hold whatever beliefs you want to.

Those who say they are non christians are being honest Those who say they are christians and perpetuate a lie and deceive by saying that they do not believe in God`s Word but maintain they are Christians are the ones that scripture warn us about.
I believe in the Scriptures and as a practising Christian I take deception in Christ very seriously.

 

[Ohioprof]

Of course you, are. We all know that.





You do not know what it is. You only know what it involves.





God is a Holy God. His righteousness can not be compromised as you want it to be. You wish for God to compromise his character in order to find you acceptable in his sight as being homosexual. That's absurd to his holiness.

You are NOT functioning in God's image when you actively live as a homosexual. That does not mean to say you will not find a form of happiness.

After all, fallen angels were quite content to live their own way outside of God's will. Why do you think they fell? They thought their way was better than God's.

Your sexual function is an insult to God's image. You are functioning in Adam's image after he fell. Not, God's. God did not make you that way. When Adam fell, he caused all of us to be born sinners.

Romans 5:12 (New International Version)
"Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all men, because all sinned."
​

Now, its correct to say, "Adam made me this way." But, its a complete falsehood to say God made you that way.

God did not. God died on the cross so his intended function for you could be restored by transformation in grace. But? For some? Like the fallen angels chose? You see your way preferable to God's way.

This is not all in vain. For, homosexuality is on display before all the angels as evidence in the courtroom of God. Because, this "preferred way" by some, is a direct reflection of what they witnessed to when their beloved friends chose to follow Satan, rather than the Lord.

The denials they witness to are just as absurd. And, the fallen angels know this by now. But, they keep trying to prove themselves justified as they inspire the gay movement with a hoped for happiness. One they can never achieve outside of God's design. Its a lie. One created out of a need for pride to be protected by denial.

You are showcased as evidence X. Proof that homosexuals can be happy in marriage. But once the crusade purpose is removed from your life? And, you become just another person? Then misery will prevail. For now you take great pleasure in your works to prove yourself an equal. Its the crusading for your cause you love. Remove that? And you life will be empty as we know it will be. For, your crusade depends on opposition to be happy.... To reveal how competent you are. How superior your thinking is to the closed minded ones (or so, you think it is).

Jesus might as well have fornicated if what you do is acceptable to God. That is what you prefer, is like to those who know God's Word.


Now? If you want to debate the merits of homosexuality in a secular forum? Be my guest.

Debate there with my blessings! For I will not try to go there and argue with you on worldly terms.

But, what you keep failing to realize. That for a Bible believing Christian to accept what you do? You are asking them to reject their God. Do you realize that? Of course you do not. For you yourself have said you do not believe any of that.



In Christ, GeneZ




.

You certainly seem to think you know a great deal about my life, given that you know me not at all. I would never presume to make such claims about YOUR life and YOUR motives, my friend. I don't know you, and it is not my business to judge how you live your life or how you manage your intimate relationships. Yet you presume to judge how you imagine I live my life and how you imagine I manage my intimate relationships.

I am nearly 53 years old. I have lived happily as a gay person for my entire adult life. I love being a mother, and I love my work, and I love my friends and my church, and I love God. My one sadness has been the recent death of my dear father, but his spirit is in me and his wonderful life has been a great example to me.

I am not sure why you claim that I am showcased as "evidence that homosexuals can be happy in marriage," when I am not married. I am single. I am not in a relationship. I have never held myself up as an example of someone who is happily married; I am happily single.

You can predict all you want that I am for some reason going to be unhappy or feel empty, but that has not happened in 53 years. I would be unhappy if my daughter died or was injured, but other than that, I don't envision being unhappy or feeling empty for any obvious reason. My life is rich and full, and I am wonderfully happy, as I hope you are.

I don't know what you are talking about when you say, "Jesus might as well have fornicated if what you do is acceptable to God."

What do you imagine I do that is so unacceptable to God? Say what I believe? God gave us brains to think, and he gave us the ability to discuss our beliefs with each other to illuminate each other about our thinking.

I also do not understand this statement of yours: "That for a Bible believing Christian to accept what you do? You are asking them to reject their God. Do you realize that?"

What do you imagine I "do" that would require you to give up your faith in God? Discuss my beliefs? That's what this forum is for....for people to discuss their different beliefs. You don't have to give up your faith in God in order to accept my discussing my beliefs here. That makes no sense. I am a Christian, and I am discussing my Christian beliefs in a forum designed for Christians to discuss our beliefs.

I have not and never will ask you to give up your faith in God. I do not ask that you agree with me. You are free to disagree with everything I say. I am not challenging your right to hold your beliefs. I am simply telling you and other people what my beliefs are. I am urging Christians here to treat gay people fairly, and to respect our inherent worth and dignity as people. If you do that, then good for you.

 

[Floatingaxe]

Those who say they are non christians are being honest Those who say they are christians and perpetuate a lie and deceive by saying that they do not believe in God`s Word but maintain they are Christians are the ones that scripture warn us about.
I believe in the Scriptures and as a practising Christian I take deception in Christ very seriously.

 

[Ohioprof]

Those who say they are non christians are being honest Those who say they are christians and perpetuate a lie and deceive by saying that they do not believe in God`s Word but maintain they are Christians are the ones that scripture warn us about.
I believe in the Scriptures and as a practising Christian I take deception in Christ very seriously.

I am not deceiving you. I am a Christian. I just hold different beliefs about what being a Christian means than you do. I do not see why you regard my beliefs as threatening, since I am not asking you to hold the same beliefs that I hold.

If I were to claim that I am a Christian who believes in the Bible as the word of God, then I would be deceiving you. Likewise, if I were to claim that I am a non-Christian, that would also be deceiving you. I have to be honest and tell you who I really am and what I believe.

I am not going to argue about gay people and "homosexuality" by referring to Christian scripture, because I do not adhere to Christian scripture. I am telling you this honestly.

 

[Floatingaxe]

I am simply telling you and other people what my beliefs are. I am urging Christians here to treat gay people fairly, and to respect our inherent worth and dignity as people.

Yes, you have done so repeatedly. We all know what your beliefs are.

We are not the ones you need to admonish about fair treatment. We who love the Lord Jesus Christ follow what He says, and we love people. But we, like Him, hate sin.

The Word of God has much to say about hypocrisy, and what you are sensing here is the Spirit of God placing His finger on that. You cannot love God and love sin as well. It is an impossibility--otherwise is hypocrisy, and what that does is rob a homosexual person who claims Christianity of his dignity.

 

[Ohioprof]

Yes, you have done so repeatedly. We all know what your beliefs are.

We are not the ones you need to admonish about fair treatment. We who love the Lord Jesus Christ follow what He says, and we love people. But we, like Him, hate sin.

The Word of God has much to say about hypocrisy, and what you are sensing here is the Spirit of God placing His finger on that. You cannot love God and love sin as well. It is an impossibility--otherwise is hypocrisy, and what that does is rob a homosexual person who claims Christianity of his dignity.

I have not been robbed of my dignity. My dignity is intact, thank you.

 

[tulc]

Now go tell that lie about being a Christian to someone else. the Bible says in 1 John 2 4The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him. 5But if anyone obeys his word, God's love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him: 6Whoever claims to live in him must walk as Jesus did.

And once again, by your own admission, I tremble not in declaring you to be exactly what you testify to being: a NON CHRISTIAN.

Now go report that too.

You're wrong when you say that and as often as you say it you'll still be wrong.
tulc(who is having a very good day!)

 

[lincolngreen50]

I am not deceiving you. I am a Christian. I just hold different beliefs about what being a Christian means than you do. I do not see why you regard my beliefs as threatening, since I am not asking you to hold the same beliefs that I hold.

If I were to claim that I am a Christian who believes in the Bible as the word of God, then I would be deceiving you. Likewise, if I were to claim that I am a non-Christian, that would also be deceiving you. I have to be honest and tell you who I really am and what I believe.

I am not going to argue about gay people and "homosexuality" by referring to Christian scripture, because I do not adhere to Christian scripture. I am telling you this honestly.

Dear Ohioprof,If you are unsure about the definition of the word Christian and what Christianity actually means let me enlighten you as follows,
American Heritage Dictionary</SPAN> - Cite This Source - Share This

Chris·tian
adj.

1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

n.

1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition</SPAN> - Cite This Source - Share This
Christianity

The religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, sent by God. They believe that Jesus, by dying and rising from the dead, made up for the sin of Adam and thus redeemed the world, allowing all who believe in him to enter heaven. Christians rely on the Bible as the inspired word of God.

This is the true belief of a Christian,Where do you get your beliefs from?

 

[Floatingaxe]

I have not been robbed of my dignity. My dignity is intact, thank you.

I differ. How dignified is it to proclaim oneself unashamedly homosexual? It is a shameful thing.

 

[Ohioprof]

Dear Ohioprof,If you are unsure about the definition of the word Christian and what Christianity actually means let me enlighten you as follows,
American Heritage Dictionary</SPAN> - Cite This Source - Share This

Chris·tian
adj.

1. Professing belief in Jesus as Christ or following the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. Relating to or derived from Jesus or Jesus's teachings.
3. Manifesting the qualities or spirit of Jesus; Christlike.
4. Relating to or characteristic of Christianity or its adherents.
5. Showing a loving concern for others; humane.

n.

1. One who professes belief in Jesus as Christ or follows the religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus.
2. One who lives according to the teachings of Jesus.

American Heritage New Dictionary of Cultural Literacy, Third Edition</SPAN> - Cite This Source - Share This
Christianity

The religion based on the life and teachings of Jesus Christ. Christians believe that Jesus Christ is the Messiah, sent by God. They believe that Jesus, by dying and rising from the dead, made up for the sin of Adam and thus redeemed the world, allowing all who believe in him to enter heaven. Christians rely on the Bible as the inspired word of God.

This is the true belief of a Christian,Where do you get your beliefs from?

I am not unsure about what being a Christian means. I know what being a Christian means....to me. Please stop questioning my Christianity. I am a Christian, and it is not for you or anyone else to tell me otherwise. If you want to debate "homosexuality," that's fine....it's the topic of these forums. I am not going to spend time explaining my beliefs about Christianity over and over and over again, simply because you or some others disagree with them. I have already told people what I believe and why, many times, and I am getting tired of this.

 

[Zaac]

You're wrong when you say that and as often as you say it you'll still be wrong.
tulc(who is having a very good day!)

Wrong when I say what?