One is taken, One is left

[oikonomia]

If we are not found watching and miss the pre-tribulation rapture, we will have to
pass through the great tribuation.

To be raptured pre-triublation is a response of obedience to the Lord's command.

Luke 21:36 - But be watchful at every time, beseeching that you would prevail to escape all these things which are about to happen and stand before the Son of Man.

1.) Rather than cowardly escape pre-trib rapture is the response of obedience.
2.) Rather than just escape pre-trib rapture is followed by reward to be in the Lord's army to defeat His enemies at Armageddon.

Luke 17:36,37 - Two men will be in the field; one will be taken and the other will be left.
And they answered and said to Him, Where, Lord? And He said to them, Where the body is,
there also will the vultures be gathered together.

As birds of prey the overcoming watchful ones will come with Jesus to swoop down on the man of death, the stinking corpse of
history - Antichrist.

 

[SavedByGrace3]

Thank you for this thread.
As others have stated, I see this to mean some will be taken in death, the rest will be left alive.

The disciples asked the lord "where Lord?"

Luke 17:37 ISV
37. Then they asked him, "Where, Lord, will this take place?"
He told them, "Wherever there's a corpse, there the vultures will gather."

I suspect this is speaking either of the invasion of Israel from the north, or the battle of Armageddon. IOWs if they people did not flee immediately, they would be caught in the swift attack and killed.

 

[oikonomia]

Thank you for this thread.
As others have stated, I see this to mean some will be taken in death, the rest will be left alive.

The disciples asked the lord "where Lord?"

Luke 17:37 ISV
37. Then they asked him, "Where, Lord, will this take place?"
He told them, "Wherever there's a corpse, there the vultures will gather."

I suspect this is speaking either of the invasion of Israel from the north, or the battle of Armageddon. IOWs if they people did not flee immediately, they would be caught in the swift attack and killed.

I have been surprised at the number of people who view the "one is taken" in a negative sense rather than a positive one.
My suspicion is that over the years thoughtful Chrisitans have maybe over reacted to such superficial treatments like
"Late Great Planet Earth" or "Left Behind" dramatizations. I have not seen any "Left Behind" fictional movies. But I can imagine.

In early 70s I did read Hal Lindsley's popular book. But I continued with better life expositions and some sanctified common sense.

Anyway, I would teach that "one is taken" is not taken away to be punished, but taken OUT of the place where judgment is about to happen. I cannot for the life of me imagine that the one who is not taken is pleasing to the Lord.

Now, where are the taken ones taken?
And they answered and said to Him, Where, Lord? And He said to them, Where the body is, there also will the vultures be gathered together. (Luke 17:37 RcV)

The reference might be from Job 39:26-30.

Is it by your understanding that the hawk soars, / Stretching his wings to the south?
Is it at your command that the eagle mounts up / And makes his nest on high?
On the cliff he dwells and makes his lodging, / Upon the point of the cliff and the stronghold.
From there he spies out food; / His eyes gaze on it from afar.
And his young ones suck up the blood; / And where the slain are, there he is.

It has the tone of militancy and victory here. It has the tone of a skillful hunter gazing off for prey to vanquish.

Look at the army that accompanies Jesus down to defeat Antichrist.

1.) It is a remnant like Gideon's little army of 300 hundred.
These will make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and they who are with Him, the called and chosen and faithful, will also overcome them. (Rev. 17:14)

These who are with the victorious Lamb are not only called and not only chosen.
They haved added an important ingredient of thier FAITHULNESS - they who are with Him,the called and chosen and FAITHFUL.

All Christians down through the ages are called and chosen. The fact of the matter is that not all have been that faithful.

2.) The bride who has made herself ready is clothed in a garment of her righteous DEEDS.
Let us rejoice and exult, and let us give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.
And it was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses of the saints.

[R]ighteousness-ES is not her righteous position but her righteous living practically expressed in righteous DEEDS.
God is faithful to cloth all who are justified by faith in Christ as our righteousness.
But this bride has prepared herself by faithfully living righteously so as to express righteous deeds, behaviour, doings.

3.) The fine linen of the bride's wedding garment becomes the battle garment for warfare as she accompanies the Lord down to earth.
And the armies which are in heaven followed Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean. (Rev. 19:14)

Just as a remnant of the total majority of saved ones is watching for His announced coming in pre-tribulation rapture,
so also a remnant spear heads the arrival of the bride, cutting the way for the rest in faithfulness.
These who prepared themselves to be taken are also those who prepared themselves for marriage to the Lamb.
And aside from eternal redemption (promised to all believers) they are rewarded with accompanying Christ to defeat His enemies.

I would encourage you to view being TAKEN as pleasing to the Lord
And not being ready to be TAKEN as less than the Lord expected.

Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord comes.
But know this, that if the householder had known in which watch the thief was coming, he would have watched and would not have allowed his house to be broken into. For this reason you also be ready, because at an hour when you do not expect it, the Son of Man is coming. (Matt. 24:42-44)

The thief in the night comes to steal what is precious. What is valuable to the thief he TAKES AWAY.
Now all believers are precious to the Lord Jesus.
But there is a preciousness excelling of being faithful to live moment by moment soberly.
All dear Christians, sadly, do not bother to build up the habit of living as if the Lord may come AT ANY MOMENT.

Sometimes you and I take this for granted.
"One is taken and one is left" is the means the more valuable in this regard is stolen away - is taken.
The negligient, presumpteous, unsober, unwatching is left to consider the severity of having taken for granted His sudden coming.

The taken are also rewarded for they are ready for battle. They have already demonstrated that they lived to fight the spiritual warfare.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

This above challenge pre-supposes belief in some kind of rapture.
If you have no such belief in any rapture of any kind,
I am more interested in responses of those who do.

The only church described in the Seven churches of Revelation that will not go through the Tribulation is the Philadelphia church. This church does everything right and Jesus has no concerns about it at all. It is described as the mission church. The Laodicean church depends on their riches and abundant resources than on Christ, and Jesus says that they will go through the Tribulation. They are identified as the apostate church.

What this means that members of churches similar to the Philadelphia church will be Raptured. along with the dead in Christ. They will be the ones who will witness the subsequent events "from the mezzanine'. They are the ones who will come back to the world with Christ when He comes in person later on. They won't be taking part in the battles, but will be the cloud of witnesses to the wind up of the world, the throwing of Satan into the lake of fire, and the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven.

 

[oikonomia]

The only church described in the Seven churches of Revelation that will not go through the Tribulation is the Philadelphia church. This church does everything right and Jesus has no concerns about it at all. It is described as the mission church. The Laodicean church depends on their riches and abundant resources than on Christ, and Jesus says that they will go through the Tribulation. They are identified as the apostate church.

What this means that members of churches similar to the Philadelphia church will be Raptured. along with the dead in Christ. They will be the ones who will witness the subsequent events "from the mezzanine'. They are the ones who will come back to the world with Christ when He comes in person later on. They won't be taking part in the battles, but will be the cloud of witnesses to the wind up of the world, the throwing of Satan into the lake of fire, and the New Jerusalem coming down from heaven.

Surely, a condition of brotherly love and keeping the Lord's word of endurance characterizes Christians watching.
Watching Christians are surely abiding in love for one another which is a hallmark of the church in Philadelphia.

Why you say they won't be taking part in the battles alludes me though.
To watch is battle. To practice brotherly love is a battle. To not lose the already enjoyed crown is a battle.
To keep the word of His endurance is also a battle. To be built solidly into His house is a battle. It is all around overcoming.

Lovers of Christ are battling saints - battling against all that stands against the normal church life and overcoming Christian life.
I therefore believe to accompany Him as the bride does as His army is expected.

Look at Revelation 19.

Let us rejoice and exult, and let us give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.
And it was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses of the saints.
And he said to me, Write, Blessed are they who are called to the marriage dinner of the Lamb. And he said to me, These are the true words of God. (vs.7-9)

The wedding garment of the bride "clothed in fine linen, bright and clean"(v.8) is also the fighting armor of the accompanying army "dressed in fine linen, white and clean. (v.14)

And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sits on it called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. (v. 11) . . . And the armies which are in heaven followed Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean. (v.14)

What qualifies her for the wedding celebration in heaven also qualifies her to accompany Christ to the battle at Armegeddon.

In the main epistle on the church Ephesians both her love as a wife is highlighted in Eph. 5:23-32
as well as her being a fighting warrior highlighted in Eph. 6:1--20.

So I believe and would teach following Him to be taken in readiness in pre-tribulation rapture is rewarded with following Him back
down from Heaven to the place where He crushes Antichrist. Whereas your view is reward is to watch from a distance, I think what is shown is reward is to take co-part in that victory.

Thankyou. Watchman1 Comment further please.

 

[Presbyterian Continuist]

Surely, a condition of brotherly love and keeping the Lord's word of endurance characterizes Christians watching.
Watching Christians are surely abiding in love for one another which is a hallmark of the church in Philadelphia.

Why you say they won't be taking part in the battles alludes me though.
To watch is battle. To practice brotherly love is a battle. To not lose the already enjoyed crown is a battle.
To keep the word of His endurance is also a battle. To be built solidly into His house is a battle. It is all around overcoming.

Lovers of Christ are battling saints - battling against all that stands against the normal church life and overcoming Christian life.
I therefore believe to accompany Him as the bride does as His army is expected.

Look at Revelation 19.

Let us rejoice and exult, and let us give the glory to Him, for the marriage of the Lamb has come, and His wife has made herself ready.
And it was given to her that she should be clothed in fine linen, bright and clean; for the fine linen is the righteousnesses of the saints.
And he said to me, Write, Blessed are they who are called to the marriage dinner of the Lamb. And he said to me, These are the true words of God. (vs.7-9)

The wedding garment of the bride "clothed in fine linen, bright and clean"(v.8) is also the fighting armor of the accompanying army "dressed in fine linen, white and clean. (v.14)

And I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse, and He who sits on it called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. (v. 11) . . . And the armies which are in heaven followed Him on white horses, dressed in fine linen, white and clean. (v.14)

What qualifies her for the wedding celebration in heaven also qualifies her to accompany Christ to the battle at Armegeddon.

In the main epistle on the church Ephesians both her love as a wife is highlighted in Eph. 5:23-32
as well as her being a fighting warrior highlighted in Eph. 6:1--20.

So I believe and would teach following Him to be taken in readiness in pre-tribulation rapture is rewarded with following Him back
down from Heaven to the place where He crushes Antichrist. Whereas your view is reward is to watch from a distance, I think what is shown is reward is to take co-part in that victory.

Thankyou. Watchman1 Comment further please.

You make a very valid point, and the clothing of the Bride is the same as that of those who accompany Christ at His second coming. Scholars are divided about whether the saints who accompany Christ actually take part in the final battle or whether they are there as witnesses and observers. There is a view that when Christ comes to fight the battle He is accompanied by angels. It seems that when Christ comes, the first thing He does is to set up His millennial reign for 1000 years. It is after that the nations rise up against Israel and are defeated when the Lord stands against them in Israel's defence. The study of the book of Revelation is fascinating and creates much discussion among scholars.

 

[oikonomia]

You make a very valid point, and the clothing of the Bride is the same as that of those who accompany Christ at His second coming. Scholars are divided about whether the saints who accompany Christ actually take part in the final battle or whether they are there as witnesses and observers. There is a view that when Christ comes to fight the battle He is accompanied by angels. It seems that when Christ comes, the first thing He does is to set up His millennial reign for 1000 years. It is after that the nations rise up against Israel and are defeated when the Lord stands against them in Israel's defence. The study of the book of Revelation is fascinating and creates much discussion among scholars.

I think our speaking is a fighting. I believe our proclaiming is a fighting.
They overcame the enemy also by the word of their testimony. (Rev. 12:10)

I know not how angels fight. And I would not know for certain how the victorious overcomers would physic
ally engage anyone. I expect that the shouts of praise are figthing. As the Israelites shouted and the walls of Jericho came down.
In Jehosaphat's time the praising and singing priests went before the outnumbered Israelites to win a great victory.

I believe our commanding our ministering servants the angels (Heb. 1:14) to fight may have something to do with this.
In the meantime we fight now to our spirit. We fight against our self love by believing we have died with Christ.
We fight now with the sacrifice of praise. We fight now by rejoicing, and again I say rejoice.

How this present day fighting in the Body and standing in grace will translate to fighting the armies of the Beast, I do not know.
Anyway, the Lord is accompanied by overcoming victors. His garment is dipped in the blood of His enemies. (Rev. 19:13)
And though the overcomers are with Him the word does also say He treads the winepress alone.

Why are You red in apparel, / And Your garments like those of him who treads in the winepress?
I have trodden the wine trough alone, / And from the peoples there was no man with Me. / And I trod them in My anger / And trampled them in My wrath; / And their lifeblood is sprinkled on My garments, / And I have stained all My apparel. (Isa. 63:2,3)

I expect the truth will be somewhere involving both revelations.
Thanks. Share more.