I don't see the "Caught up/Rapture" here. There were no Christians there no Church it was just Jews that asked and to whom He was talking to. They all were still under, living by the law. I think this is about the 2nd advent.
I intended this thread to be for those Christians who do believe in a rapture. If you see none in the first place in
Matt. 24:40-42 or
Luke 17:34,35 you would not be my first priority on this thread. I would try not to get sidetracked into another talk about the
law just yet.
Understand that your argument is not my main focus here. My replies to you Blade, will gravitate
back towards my focus.
With Lot he was told hurry or you will be swept away yet Lot knew he found favor and the angel said "Hurry and take refuge there, for I cannot do anything [to punish Sodom] until you arrive there".
Yes. God intended to
remove the procrastinating and lingering Lot.
Before the great tribulation Christ also intends to
remove Christians whose daily walk testifies that they WISH to be removed.
This thread is about
Christians living so as to meet the Lord's demand
(WATCH) verses Christians who take this less seriously (not
WATCH).
Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord comes. (Matt. 24:32)
God never stopped Abraham from his count down of 50 to 10 righteous.
This was an early lesson in God's people interceding for others.
God said if there is 10 righteous I will not destroy it.
And He found a few to remove, reluctant though as they were.
Yet we think God maybe has changed so some get caught up others that are still saved still the righteousness of God are left behind to experience Gods wrath that as its written is coming on the whole world and all in it? Read again Cor where he talks about all those people of God the good and bad yet at the end what does ALL mean?
See Christ said He will come back and get us so where He is we will be. Paul by the sweet sweet holy Spirit said "we which remain". Not once did it say "some go some stay". Christ did say no angels nor Him know. When one asked “Lord, will You at this time restore the kingdom to Israel?” and He said to them, “It is not for you to know times or seasons which the Father has put in His own authority."
" [O]ne is taken and one is left " is the Lord warning of "some go some stay."
Now it is important that some go AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME.
It is another discussion that those who are left MISSED the appointed opportunity. Do not jump to the conclusion that
it is therefore hopeless for them. A LESSON needs to be learned for them though.
My focus in this thread is not all things eschatological, Israel and such.
Related to my focus, the Lord said the overcomers in Philadelphia would be kept from the hour of trial
because a condition had been met. They kept the word of His endurance. This is another way of saying WATCH.
Rev. 3:10,11 - Because you have kept the word of My endurance, I also will keep you out of the hour of trial, which is about to come on the whole inhabited earth, to try them who dwell on the earth.
I come quickly; hold fast what you have that no one take your crown.
Because the lesson of keeping His word with endurance has been learned, as a reward they are taken out of the hour of worldwide trial.
It is not that they are taken pre-tribulation merely because they are Christians.
The implication is unavoidable. If the lesson has NOT been learned, the reward is missed and they must learn to endure THROUGH
the hour of world wide trial.
Here then is the parallel to His warnings in the Gospels.
Two women will be grinding at the mill; one is taken and one is left.
Watch therefore, for you do not know on what day your Lord comes. (Matt. 24:41,42)
Actually the one's rewarded to be taken ALREADY have the prize of the crown of enjoyning Jesus.
They need to hold it fast, not lose it, keep on keeping on.
I come quickly; hold fast what you have that no one take your crown.(Rev. 3:11)
So we read say Luke 17 34+ talking about one taken one left they ask where "And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.". From this some get the "Rapture"? For me its the 2nd Advent and Armageddon.
Well, you tempt me to diverge. Absolutely, that the raptured are taken to the battle of Armageddon , eventually, is part of the reward and prize for overcoming. For being ready at the appropriate time they are qualified to also accompany Jesus in His army coming down to defeat Antichrist and his armies in
Revelation 19:11-21.
You therefore touch on an important point. Pre great tribulation is not solely a matter of ESCAPE. It is a matter of stratigic warefare.
On one hand it is reward to watchful Christians to be taken out of the hour of world wide trial.
On the other hand it is a strategic move in spiritual warfare to end the age and bring in the kingdom age.
To watch as the Lord warned is already a matter of defeating our enemy through vigilant walking with the Lord.
To watch as He warned is already hasving learned the lesson of keeping the word of His endurance.
This qualifies for both rapture OUT of the earth and ACCOMPANYMENT of the Lord down to battle and overcome Antichrist.
From what I read Christ does not know some say He does. I do not believe from what I read Matt-John that He knew. The fact He said I go to prepare a place for you so where I am you will be. He said looking in there eyes "I will come get you/take you/receive you unto myself so where I am you will be". Hmm maybe He was talking about just the body which is still here yet... when we die we go right to the Father. If He knew He was never coming back (caught up) for some 2000+ years later.. for me He lied to them. Now if all He knew while on this earth it could be any moment then praise GOD all true.
This is a another discussion - John 14. Christ goes away there TO CALVARY's CROSS to prepare a place for man to be in the Father.
Traditional views that He was saying He was going away into Heaven to prepare luxurious mansions are natural minded concepts.
Jesus was a man in God and God in Him. If He was the only one who could enjoy this reality He would have told us that He is the only one. He says instead that there are many ABODES in the house of His Father. He goes to accomplish eternal redemption on the cross
to prepare His many believers as abodes many, in the house of His Father.
Do not let your heart be troubled; believe into God, believe also into Me.
In My Father’s house are many abodes; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you.
And if I go and prepare a place for you, I am coming again and will receive you to Myself, so that where I am you also may be. (John 14:1-3)
The same word for
ABODES [plural] in verse 2 is used in singular form
ABODE in verse 23. These are the many abodes into which the Triune God as the Divine
We will come to live in them. He goes away to prepare a place IN GOD for those eternally redeemed.
Jesus answered and said to him, If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word, and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make an abode with him. (v.23)
So John 14 is a larger subject than about rapture.
Now I was not promised tomorrow so I watch and am ready now. No pre no mid no post just watching knowing now is when He will come. Always thinking always ready living for Him each moment. I LIKE that!
This bottom line of yours is healthy. I would not discourage it because you DO realize the need for vigilance.
Perhaps your skepticism about raptures is reactionary to poor teaching about it from popularizers.
So, that you LIKE the relevant concept of watchfulness comes to the point. In time perhaps you will also see
there are raptures.
In a real sense,
whenever we turn out hearts to the Lord Jesus, we are snatched away from negative things unto Him.
Like Enoch who walked with God, we ought to step by step walk with the Lord Jesus. This will have its reward.
