One Earth Day

[Jesus My Wisdom]

1. We measure time in units called hours. One earth day is the time it takes for the earth to make one complete rotation - 24 hours. This rotation can only be measured from earth by the earth's relativity to the sun.

2. You cannot also have an earth day consisting of a 12 hour day portion and 12 hour night portion without also having a sun.

The Bible speaks of night and day the first 3 days.
However, the sun was not created until the 4th day.

The earth was not formed until the 3rd day.

Hence, it is rather obvious that one cannot insist the days of Gen chapter 1 are 24 hour earth days for the first 3 or 4 "days."

Jesus My Wisdom

 

[Talcos Stormweaver]

You make an interesting point there, however:

Now the earth was [1] formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.

(Genesis 1:2)

Now, assuming that this existed before light was made, there still was a form of mass to judge by, albeit not exactly Earth as we know it today. However, whether the statement here is relative to Earth, there you might have debate.

 

[Jesus My Wisdom]

You make an interesting point there, however:

(Genesis 1:2)

Now, assuming that this existed before light was made, there still was a form of mass to judge by, albeit not exactly Earth as we know it today. However, whether the statement here is relative to Earth, there you might have debate.

The phrase "formless and void" means it did not exist yet. It was formless... it was not formed... it was void... it was yet nothing.

The entire chapter is to tell us how God created both the heavens and the eart. And we are told how.

And you are still left without a sun til the 4th day.

JMW

 

[danrusdad]

You cannot also have an earth day consisting of a 12 hour day portion and 12 hour night portion without also having a sun.

No, you cant have an earth day without LIGHT, exactly what we are told was created on the first day. The source of the light is irrelevant to whether the 1st 3 days are 24 hrs or not.

 

[Ark-Guy]

1. We measure time in units called hours. One earth day is the time it takes for the earth to make one complete rotation - 24 hours. This rotation can only be measured from earth by the earth's relativity to the sun.

2. You cannot also have an earth day consisting of a 12 hour day portion and 12 hour night portion without also having a sun.

The Bible speaks of night and day the first 3 days.
However, the sun was not created until the 4th day.

The earth was not formed until the 3rd day.

Hence, it is rather obvious that one cannot insist the days of Gen chapter 1 are 24 hour earth days for the first 3 or 4 "days."

Jesus My Wisdom

Sure you can...read the Ten Commandments.

EXO 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Just for the record, the earth was formed on day one....it was formless and void, yet it did indeed exist. Read Genesis again.

Of course your logic dictates that if the sun went out...we couldn't measure a day.

Then again you did seem to leave out the source of light prior to the sun.

 

[Bushido216]

No, you cant have an earth day without LIGHT, exactly what we are told was created on the first day. The source of the light is irrelevant to whether the 1st 3 days are 24 hrs or not.

A day is a measurement of the time it takes for the earth to undergo a single rotation. That speed is determined by a myriad of factors, including the sun.

 

[Bushido216]

Sure you can...read the Ten Commandments.

EXO 20:11 For in six days the LORD made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, but he rested on the seventh day. Therefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy.

Just for the record, the earth was formed on day one....it was formless and void, yet it did indeed exist. Read Genesis again.

Of course your logic dictates that if the sun went out...we couldn't measure a day.

Then again you did seem to leave out the source of light prior to the sun.

That little bite of Scripture doesn't say anything about the earth being formless and void, does it? No, it doesn't.

As well, what other source of light could you possibly be talking about?!

 

[danrusdad]

A day is a measurement of the time it takes for the earth to undergo a single rotation. That speed is determined by a myriad of factors, including the sun.

Once again, just like the source of the light, the speed of the rotation is irrelevant to the definition of "day". A day is simply the amount of time for the earth to make one rotation. Speed and other factors are irrelevant.

 

[danrusdad]

That little bite of Scripture doesn't say anything about the earth being formless and void, does it? No, it doesn't.

What has that got to do with what a day is?

As well, what other source of light could you possibly be talking about?!

The same one I was talking about. You'll find it under...ummmm....day 1.

 

[gluadys]

No, you cant have an earth day without LIGHT.

Sure you can. In fact, in polar regions it is a seasonal regularity.

An earth day is the time it takes for the earth to make one full rotation on its axis. That rotation needs to be measured relative to another body whose position is fixed in relation to the earth. Whether or not that body emits light is irrelevant.

As it happens we measure the earth's daily rotation relative to the sun, which is a light-emitting body. But the fact the sun gives light is irrelevant to how long a day is. Days on Mercury, Mars, the Moon and other planets and their moons are also measured as the time it takes for them to complete on turn on their axes. And those vary widely from the standard earth day. A day on the moon is equivalent to nearly a month of earth time since its axial rotation time is the same as its orbital time.

Furthemore, earth days have not always been 24 hour days. Many organisms have circadian cycles which become part of the fossil record. Some types of corals, for example. And when you go back far enough you find that earth's daily rotation used to be more rapid than it is now. Some 320 million years ago, a day was only 22 hours.

 

[lucaspa]

1. We measure time in units called hours. One earth day is the time it takes for the earth to make one complete rotation - 24 hours. This rotation can only be measured from earth by the earth's relativity to the sun.

2. You cannot also have an earth day consisting of a 12 hour day portion and 12 hour night portion without also having a sun.

The Bible speaks of night and day the first 3 days.
However, the sun was not created until the 4th day.

The earth was not formed until the 3rd day.

Hence, it is rather obvious that one cannot insist the days of Gen chapter 1 are 24 hour earth days for the first 3 or 4 "days."

Jesus My Wisdom

For those first days, the text says "and it was evening and morning". The authors are making them the traditional Jewish days. God creates during "daylight" then you have evening, then you have morning. The authors meant 24 hour days because they use those days to (unnecessarily) justify the Sabbath in Genesis 20:11. If the days are ages, that justification doesn't work.

 

[Jesus My Wisdom]

Sure you can. In fact, in polar regions it is a seasonal regularity.

A day in the Bible, when we aer talking about that portiopn that is not night, is not "waking hours between 6 AM and 10 PM." It is the period of sunlight as oppposed to the "evening" or "night" which is darkness.

An earth day is the time it takes for the earth to make one full rotation on its axis. That rotation needs to be measured relative to another body whose position is fixed in relation to the earth. Whether or not that body emits light is irrelevant.

Wrong. When you have an evening and a morning you have to have light. The purpose of those two Biblical words are "dawn" and "dusk." That requires light.

And we are here talking about what the Bible is intended to convey.

As it happens we measure the earth's daily rotation relative to the sun, which is a light-emitting body. But the fact the sun gives light is irrelevant to how long a day is. Days on Mercury, Mars, the Moon and other planets and their moons are also measured as the time it takes for them to complete on turn on their axes. And those vary widely from the standard earth day. A day on the moon is equivalent to nearly a month of earth time since its axial rotation time is the same as its orbital time.

The question is whether this was a 24 hour day which is necessarily an earth day. YOu can't have an earth day without an earth. Indeed, you don't even have a heavens until Day 2. And you don't have anything to measure against until Day 4.

Furthemore, earth days have not always been 24 hour days. Many organisms have circadian cycles which become part of the fossil record. Some types of corals, for example. And when you go back far enough you find that earth's daily rotation used to be more rapid than it is now. Some 320 million years ago, a day was only 22 hours.

Perhaps it was, perhaps it wasn't. The circadian record suggests this but does not prove it. However, this is all quite irreleveant.

JMW

 

[Bushido216]

Once again, just like the source of the light, the speed of the rotation is irrelevant to the definition of "day". A day is simply the amount of time for the earth to make one rotation. Speed and other factors are irrelevant.

The earth spins at a certain speed, no?

 

[lucaspa]

Bushido, IMO all the talk about rotations is irrelevant. What matters is what the authors intended. And they intended a 24 hour day, whether they had a reference point in rotation or not. The key clue is that "evening and morning" for all the days prior to the creation of the sun. It is dropped after that. Therefore the only purpose it serves (except maybe meter) is to tie the creation day to a traditional 24 hour day that has daylight, evenings, then nights, then mornings. The other clue is that rest God takes on day 7.

The authors of Genesis 1 constructed a 6 day creation so that God could rest on the 7th. So they could have a justification for keeping the Sabbath every 7 days. Now, instead of having an incomprehensible ritual that the Babylonians ridiculed and none of the Hebrews understood, they have a reason for the Sabbath to give to any Babylonian trying to lure them away from Judaism.

 

[Jesus My Wisdom]

Bushido, IMO all the talk about rotations is irrelevant. What matters is what the authors intended. And they intended a 24 hour day, whether they had a reference point in rotation or not.

Says who? Where do you see 24 hours in Genesis 1?

The key clue is that "evening and morning" for all the days prior to the creation of the sun. It is dropped after that.

You should take note of that. It takes a sun to have an evening and morning, a dawn and dusk.

Therefore the only purpose it serves (except maybe meter) is to tie the creation day to a traditional 24 hour day that has daylight, evenings, then nights, then mornings. The other clue is that rest God takes on day 7.

So you figure God rested on Saturday. What do you think he did the next day on Sunday?

The authors of Genesis 1 constructed a 6 day creation so that God could rest on the 7th.

I bet God was pleased about that. I hope he didn't really observe Sunday. You know, maybe that's why he got mad at us.

So they could have a justification for keeping the Sabbath every 7 days. Now, instead of having an incomprehensible ritual that the Babylonians ridiculed and none of the Hebrews understood, they have a reason for the Sabbath to give to any Babylonian trying to lure them away from Judaism.

You still have not proven a 24 hour day.

JMW

 

[lucaspa]

The key clue is that "evening and morning" for all the days prior to the creation of the sun. It is dropped after that.

Says who? Where do you see 24 hours in Genesis 1?

You should take note of that. It takes a sun to have an evening and morning, a dawn and dusk.

Ordinarily, yes. So the reason the authors put "evening and morning" was to give that dawn and dusk in the absence of the sun. It is the tie to 24 hour day.

So you figure God rested on Saturday. What do you think he did the next day on Sunday?

Whatever He wanted to. The story stops with God resting on the 7th day.

I bet God was pleased about that. I hope he didn't really observe Sunday. You know, maybe that's why he got mad at us.

For Jews, the Sabbath falls on what we now term "Saturday". Our days of the week are not based on Jewish practice. The very names "Saturday" and "Sunday" come from pagan gods. Saturday is Saturn's day while Sunday is Sun's day. Now, Jesus was crucified on a Friday afternoon. The Sabbath started at sundown that day. That's why they were going to break his legs -- to make sure he was dead so he could be buried before sunset -- since burial is work and forbidden on the Sabbath. What this meant is that Jesus died on Friday afternoon, was dead all day the Sabbath, and rose on the first day of the week -- the third day -- while being dead "only" 36 hours or so.

Now, when Christianity finally acknoweldged that they were not going to convert the Jews and thus began to set up its own traditions they changed the observance of the Sabbath to Sunday in honor of the day Jesus rose from the dead.

You still have not proven a 24 hour day.

JMW

If you mean have I convinced you, then no. But then, it doesn't appear that you are ever going to be convinced. In an earlier post I referenced Exodus 20:11 and a similar verse in Leviticus, where the days of creation are tied to the days of the week. Now, if the days of creation are not 24 hour days, then it makes no sense to do that.

Also, I have found that reference to the seventh day is also "beyom" in Hebrew. "Beyom" or "byvm" in Hebrew is a separate word from "yom" or "yvm". While "yvm" can be an longer than 24 hours, "byvm" means "within a day" or "in the day" and is a period of 24 hours or less.

This is not the best transliteration, but it will do. Here it is "bayom" instead of "beyom", but since written Hebrew has no vowels, picking the vowels in a transliteration is a matter of taste. Genesis 2:2
va.ye.khal e.lo.him ba.yom ha.she.vi.i me.lakh.to a.sher a.sa va.yish.bot ba.yom ha.she.vi.i mi.kol-me.lakh.to a.sher a.sa:
And on the seventh day God finished His work which He had made; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made.

So here is textual proof that the seventh day was 24 hours. Now, I suspect that this was done precisely because otherwise the duration of the 7th day is ambiguous since creation is done and there is no signal to start the next day.

Again, this speaks only the the author's intent and not how long creation actually took. The authors of the creation story Genesis 1:1 -2:4 were writing a theological essay, not a history.

 

[time]

As well, what other source of light could you possibly be talking about?!

In my ever so humble opinion, there was light made before the sun was made. What kind of light? Well a light independent of the stars and sun! There, in a part of the sky, was this most wonderful pre sun creation light! As the earth went around, with no sun, instead, as it turned toward this light, voila-day! Likewise, as now, when it turned away from the light, night! What happened to this light when the sun and stars were made? Ahh, yes, a whole topic in itself. But for our purposes here, it measured the day and night till the sun got created!

 

[gluadys]

However, this is all quite irreleveant.

If your only concern is, like lucaspa, to establish the author's intended meaning for the text, it is irrelevant. For the author's intended meaning is an ordinary day as delimited by evening, night, morning, day.

If you reject that meaning, as in the OP, and wish to establish a different meaning, then the definition of what a day is, whether or not it is necessarily 24 hours and whether or not the presence of light is a factor, these are all relevant.

A day in the Bible, when we aer talking about that portiopn that is not night, is not "waking hours between 6 AM and 10 PM." It is the period of sunlight as oppposed to the "evening" or "night" which is darkness.

Right. Being unaware of the motion of the earth, they measured instead the visibility and apparent motion of the sun. And having no experience of the extended "days" and "nights" of polar regions, that factor did not enter their conception.

Wrong. When you have an evening and a morning you have to have light. The purpose of those two Biblical words are "dawn" and "dusk." That requires light.

Granted. However, depending on your location and the season, the time from "dawn" to "dusk" can be much more or less than 12 hours or even 24 hours. In Iqaluit it can be several weeks. At the north pole it is 6 months. In short the time from "dawn" to "dusk" is not necessarily tied to the time during which the earth makes one rotation on its axis---which is the modern meaning of "one day".

And we are here talking about what the Bible is intended to convey.

I agree with lucaspa here. What the bible intended to convey was an ordinary 24 hour day as that was the day of normal Israelite experience.

Now, in light of scientific knowledge about the age of the earth, it is quite clear that whether or not the author intended these to be literal solar days, they can't be. But that is a different question entirely from establishing the intended meaning of the text.

The question is whether this was a 24 hour day which is necessarily an earth day. YOu can't have an earth day without an earth. Indeed, you don't even have a heavens until Day 2. And you don't have anything to measure against until Day 4.

The question is whether you wish to establish the intended meaning of the text or whether you wish to establish whether the intended meaning is acceptable as a literal meaning.

The intended meaning is "yes, it is a 24 hour day".
Is this acceptable as a literal meaning? No.

Perhaps it was, perhaps it wasn't. The circadian record suggests this but does not prove it.

In science nothing is "proven". But the circadian records accord well with the theoretical mathematical calculations thus validating the prediction of the theory. That is evidence that the theory is sound.

 

[Curt]

I think this pretty well says that God did it in 6 days.

Exod 20:10-11
10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
(KJV)

Prov 3:5-8
5 TRUST IN THE LORD WITH ALL THINE HEART; and LEAN NOT UNTO THINE OWN understanding.
6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
7 BE NOT WISE IN THINE OWN EYES: fear the LORD, and depart from evil.
8 It shall be health to thy navel, and marrow to thy bones.
2 Tim 3:16-17
16 ALL SCRIPTURE IS GIVEN BY INSPIRATION OF GOD, AND IS PROFITABLE for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
17 THAT THE MAN OF GOD MAY BE PERFECT, throughly furnished unto all good works.
2 Pet 1:20
20 Knowing this first, that NO PROPHECY OF THE SCRIPTURE IS OF ANY PRIVATE INTERPRETATION.
2 Sam 14:14
14 For we must needs die, and are as water spilt on the ground, which cannot be gathered up again; NEITHER DOTH GOD RESPECT ANY PERSON: yet doth he devise means, that his banished be not expelled from him.
Job 37:24
24 Men do therefore fear him: HE RESPECTETH NOT ANY THAT ARE WISE OF HEART.
John 17:22-23
22 And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may BE ONE, EVEN AS WE ARE ONE.
23 I in them, and thou in me, THAT THEY MAY BE MADE PERFECT IN ONE; and that the world may know that thou hast sent me, and hast loved them, as thou hast loved me.
Ps 138:2
2 I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness AND FOR THY TRUTH: FOR THOU HAST MAGNIFIED THY WORD ABOVE ALL THY NAME.
James 1:22-25
22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves.
23 For if any be a hearer of the word, and not a doer, he is like unto a man beholding his natural face in a glass:
24 For he beholdeth himself, and goeth his way, and straightway forgetteth what manner of man he was.
25 But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.
Josh 24:15
15 And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, CHOOSE YOU THIS DAY whom ye will serve; whether the gods which your fathers served that were on the other side of the flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD.
(KJV)

 

[muffler dragon]

1. We measure time in units called hours. One earth day is the time it takes for the earth to make one complete rotation - 24 hours. This rotation can only be measured from earth by the earth's relativity to the sun.

2. You cannot also have an earth day consisting of a 12 hour day portion and 12 hour night portion without also having a sun.

The Bible speaks of night and day the first 3 days.
However, the sun was not created until the 4th day.

The earth was not formed until the 3rd day.

Hence, it is rather obvious that one cannot insist the days of Gen chapter 1 are 24 hour earth days for the first 3 or 4 "days."

Jesus My Wisdom

This is more of a philosophical consideration, but I thought I would voice it nonetheless:

Be it that our Father exists outside of time, it can be inferred just as equally, that these statements you make are simply the creation of time. Consider that just for a moment. At the point of creation, not only the physical universe was created, but potentially, everything else that God stands outside of.

God is the one who determined the amount of time in a day. Therefore, if He said it was morning and evening, then by all means, it was morning and evening. Moreover, if God is the source of light, as Scripture states, then He could very well be the originator for the planet's light before He created the heavenly bodies.