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One Died For All

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Mark Quayle

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Backpedaling. A moment ago you called it a "simple concept" (your term).
Not at all. It is a simple concept that God is perfect in every way, and self-existent. A child can understand that fact. But that by no means covers the whole doctrine of God, nevermind his own understanding of himself. So with the two natures of Christ. You're still letting words push your thinking around.
 
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JAL

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There you go letting words push you around. Of course he has knowledge of the finite. What in the world is wrong with you, man? He is infinite in knowledge!
That wasn't the claim. Now you're dancing. Two options.
(1) God only knows a finite number of languages (my position)
(2) God knows an infinite number of languages.

You just denied #2. That puts you on MY side. A god whose knowledge is NOT infinite. So much for all your infinitude-crap.
 
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JAL

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Not at all. It is a simple concept that God is perfect in every way, and self-existent. A child can understand that fact. But that by no means covers the whole doctrine of God, nevermind his own understanding of himself. So with the two natures of Christ. You're still letting words push your thinking around.
No sir. You referred to to the hypostatic union as a "simple concept". Then later you backpedaled - while having the gall to accuse me of lofty condescension.
 
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JAL

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Ironically, I'm in full agreement with this. How that translates to you to Progressive Theism is beyond me. Again --good day to you, sir. I've had quite enough for now.
Again, I've demonstrated that your God's holiness has no merit, His kind of holiness is not praiseworthy, and He thus becomes the jerk who expects unmerited praise. You didn't address the specific tenets of that argument - because you obviously cannot.

Leaving? Fine. Come back when you have an acceptable view of God. I'll be happy to discuss.
 
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Mark Quayle

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He IS perfect. He does His job IMPECCABLY. That job is the administration of justice and the protection of all of us. You seem to think that there is some detrimental inadequacy in my God - that He would fail me in some way. Be explicit. In what way do you think He will fail me?
His job? You may as well say "His nature" and make some more logical leaps into that subject. He does what he does, and is what he is, and to say that he is DEVELOPING is illogical extrapolation of your notion of kindness, knowledge and "his job". He is just and kind. Merciful. Loving. But you want to make him ignorant and weak so that he can be excused for not living up to human wish-think.
 
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JAL

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Ironically, I'm in full agreement with this. How that translates to you to Progressive Theism is beyond me. Again --good day to you, sir. I've had quite enough for now.
Define Progressive Theism. I really don't appreciate the intellectual dishonesty of randomly mis-associating my beliefs with anything-you-please.
 
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That wasn't the claim. Now you're dancing. Two options.
(1) God only knows a finite number of languages (my position)
(2) God knows an infinite number of languages.

You just denied #2. That puts you on MY side. A god whose knowledge is NOT infinite. So much for all your infinitude-crap.
No, that doesn't put me on any side. It is simple logic: there are only a finite number of languages, and God knows everything about them all. To postulate that he should know an infinite number of languages is like saying he is able to make a rock too big for himself to move. It is incoherent.

Why do you insist on going down this trail?
 
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Mark Quayle

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Define Progressive Theism. I really don't appreciate the intellectual dishonesty of randomly mis-associating my beliefs with anything-you-please.
My bad. That is what it sounds like to me. Call it what you want --you have asserted heresy and nonsense.
 
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JAL

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His job? You may as well say "His nature" and make some more logical leaps into that subject. He does what he does, and is what he is, and to say that he is DEVELOPING is illogical extrapolation of your notion of kindness, knowledge and "his job". He is just and kind. Merciful. Loving. But you want to make him ignorant and weak so that he can be excused for not living up to human wish-think.
No, I do not define Him as "developing". I define Him as someone who HAS developed. He achieved consummate holiness by free will, quite some time ago. He doesn't need to repeat the effort.
 
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JAL

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My bad. That is what it sounds like to me. Call it what you want --you have asserted heresy and nonsense.
Um...That's not an argument. What was that term you used earlier? Oh that's right - bias.
 
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No, that doesn't put me on any side. It is simple logic: there are only a finite number of languages, and God knows everything about them all. To postulate that he should know an infinite number of languages is like saying he is able to make a rock too big for himself to move. It is incoherent.

Why do you insist on going down this trail?

No, there are a potentially infinite number of languages. I myself have never denied "potential infinities" and your attempt to do so here is complete nonsense. What I HAVE denied is "actualized infinities".

Meaning, God can learn any of these infinite languages, but there will never be any point in time where He knows them all, as an actualized/realized infinity is incoherent nonsense.

I think that's pretty clear.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Um...That's not an argument. What was that term you used earlier? Oh that's right - bias.
True it's not an argument, nor did I mean it to be. Yes I am most definitely biased against heresy, thank God. If I wanted to argue at this point, I'd bring in where you say something to the effect that my argument is invalid since it doesn't fit your metaphysics.
 
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No, I do not define Him as "developing". I define Him as someone who HAS developed. He achieved consummate holiness by free will, quite some time ago. He doesn't need to repeat the effort.
So time is absolute and God is subject to it, not its controller and owner? You have no God.
 
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JAL

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So time is absolute and God is subject to it, not its controller and owner? You have no God.
Time is absolute? Incoherent, humanly incomprehensible statements about time, and God's relation to it, do not an argument make.
 
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True it's not an argument, nor did I mean it to be. Yes I am most definitely biased against heresy, thank God. If I wanted to argue at this point, I'd bring in where you say something to the effect that my argument is invalid since it doesn't fit your metaphysics.
Define heresy.
 
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Which means that God is a God of finitude.
He is God of finitude and infinity. (Not "a" God of finitude alone.) In fact, he is God of all fact. If it is possible to say so, though the notion seems beyond me to describe, it is drawn from him -- it is certainly not "happening TO him" in the sense that he does not control it, design it, predestine it nor cause it.
 
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He is God of finitude and infinity. (Not "a" God of finitude alone.) In fact, he is God of all fact. If it is possible to say so, though the notion seems beyond me to describe, it is drawn from him -- it is certainly not "happening TO him" in the sense that he does not control it, design it, predestine it nor cause it.
So he is the finite infinite God. Wow. You're really making a lot sense here.
 
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Mark Quayle

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Time is absolute? Incoherent, humanly incomprehensible statements about time, and God's relation to it, do not an argument make.
I was sarcastically attempting to figure out your thinking on it. You make God subject to time in your narrative. No I don't think time is absolute. You do, however, it seems, subjecting God to it. What a small god you equal yourself to!
 
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Define heresy.
That which plainly counters Scripture (and, by the way, good reason, too). According to Google, which is one use of it, and not what I care about:

her·e·sy
/ˈherəsē/
Learn to pronounce

noun
  1. belief or opinion contrary to orthodox religious (especially Christian) doctrine.
 
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