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Featured One Died For All

Discussion in 'Controversial Christian Theology' started by Minister Monardo, Nov 21, 2020.

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  1. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    2 Corinthians 5:
    14
    For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all,
    then all died;
    15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves,
    but for Him who died for them and rose again.

    Colossians 3:
    1
    If then you were raised with Christ, seek those things which are above,
    where Christ is, sitting at the right hand of God.
    2 Set your mind on things above, not on things on the earth.
    3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

    1 John 5:19.
    And we know that we are of God, and the whole world lies in wickedness.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
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  2. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    So, here is a use for "all" that obviously does not mean "all" in the sense that some want it to mean.
     
  3. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Jude 1:12. These are spots in your feasts of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear: clouds they are without water, carried about of winds; trees whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead, plucked up by the roots.
    Why are those who reject the gospel twice dead?

    John 3:18. He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

    2 Corinthians 2:
    15
    For we are to God the fragrance of Christ among those who are being saved
    and among those who are perishing.
    16 To the one we are the aroma of death leading to death, and to the other the
    aroma of life leading to life. And who is sufficient for these things?

    Romans 5:10. For if when we were enemies we were reconciled to God through
    the death of His Son, much more, having been reconciled, we shall be saved by His life.
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2020
  4. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    Amen !

    Philippians 1:20-26
    I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. 21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, 26 so that through my being with you again your boasting in Christ Jesus will abound on account of me.

    I presently have an unsaved 12 year old grandson that I have a trust and special bond with so I'm torn to be with Christ or be here to influence Him for Christ. Its really heartbreaking as his siblings love the Lord yet he has not come to Christ. My selfish side desires the Lord to Return today but on the other hand I greatly desire the salvation of my grandson by marriage 3 years ago.
     
  5. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Good to know that he has a spiritual covering for now. He may not be ready to consider the notion
    of a heaven, and death may seem far from him, but he can learn of a kingdom and a King. May he come
    to know the power and authority of becoming a part of that kingdom, and the knowledge of His
    resurrection. As we remain in Philippians 3:10, may your grandson be "kept by the power of God
    unto salvation, ready to be revealed in the last time. 1 Peter 1:5.
     
  6. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    Thanks brother and even though he is not my flesh and blood my heart breaks for him as if he was just like his brother who is 10 and my flesh and blood grandson who is saved. They also have a 2 year old son together :)
     
  7. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Not sure what you mean to imply, but here is a reasonable use of the term "twice dead":

    "Twice dead;
    that is, entirely, thoroughly, and really dead in trespasses and sins, notwithstanding their pretensions to religion and godliness; or the sense may be, that they were not only liable to a corporeal death, common to them with all mankind, but also to an eternal one, or to the death both of soul and body in hell. Homer calls those (diyaneiv) , "twice dead", that go to hell alive: or rather the sense is this, that they were dead in sin by nature, as all men are, and again having made a profession of religion, were now become dead to that profession; and so were twice dead, once as they were born, and a second time as they had apostatized"
    Jude 1:12 - Meaning and Commentary on Bible Verse

    Several languages, including English, use "double" or "twice", not in the sense of two distinct similar items or occasions, but as an intensifier.
     
  8. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    John 15:
    22
    If I had not come and spoken to them, they would have no sin, but now they
    have no excuse for their sin.
    23 He who hates Me hates My Father also.
    24 If I had not done among them the works which no one else did, they would have no sin;
    but now they have seen and also hated both Me and My Father.
    25 But this happened that the word might be fulfilled which is written in their law,
    They hated Me without a cause.
     
  9. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Is this an appropriate use of the word all?
    Romans 5:12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;
    and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
     
  10. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Is WHAT an appropriate use? The verse? Of course it is appropriate! Is it not Scripture?

    I can only guess you mean, "In this verse, does "all" mean "absolutely all that ever were born and ever will be born, other than Christ"?

    Off topic, but notice the use of the word, "because", in some versions of that verse. Here it obviously does not mean the fact that all have sinned caused the fact that death passed upon all men. It only means "[we know this (implied)] because all have sinned...". Other versions say things like "for all have sinned", or "in that all have sinned", or "so thus all have sinned"

    But look at the context. Concerning this verse, the immediate context doesn't seem to me to necessarily affirm nor deny that "all" should mean absolutely all that ever were born or will be born. So we need to depend on the rest of the context, the whole of Scripture, which indeed confirms the notion that absolutely all have sinned, and that sin has passed to absolutely all humanity, through our federal head, Adam.
     
  11. Minister Monardo

    Minister Monardo Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Just seeking clarification regarding your post.

    I am aware of the topic, I originated the thread.

     
  12. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    Ok
     
  13. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    How so?

    2 Corinthians 5:
    14
    For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all,
    then all died;

    What does "then all died", which follows "One died for all"?

    The only obvious meaning is that every human being is born spiritually dead.

    The alternative would be that ONLY believers have died. Which doesn't make sense.
     
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  14. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Minister Monardo said:
    Is this an appropriate use of the word all?
    Romans 5:12. Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin;
    and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
    Not at all. In fact, quite ON topic. You have challenged the word 'all' in 2 Cor 5:14 to mean the whole human race, or all people.

    It is obvious that Rom 5:12 uses "all" in the sense of all humans.

    Not only 2 Cor 5:14 and 15 says that Christ died for all, but so does Heb 2:9. But we do see Jesus, who was made lower than the angels for a little while, now crowned with glory and honor because he suffered death, so that by the grace of God he might taste death for everyone.

    Now, here, the Greek word "all" is translated as "everyone". It cannot mean "all manner or" or "all kinds of" because there is nothing following the word 'all'. So it does mean everyone.

    Finally, 1 Tim 2:3-6 closes all argument:
    3 This is good, and pleases God our Savior,
    4 who wants all people to be saved and to come to a knowledge of the truth.
    5 For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,
    6 who gave himself as a ransom for all people. This has now been witnessed to at the proper time.

    In my lexicon, under "pas", there are no entries with "all manner of" or "all kinds of". Instead, the word "every" is frequent, as in "every place", "everywhere", "every quarter", "all parts", "all places", "in every way", "in every instance", "on all sides", "always", "at all times", "by all means".

    I don't see your point. We know that Adam passed his curse on sin (death-spiritual) to the human race. So that all people, not all kinds of people, are born spiritually dead.

    In fact, everyone is born separated (spiritual death) from God. And everyone needs salvation. Not just all kinds of people.

    Many verses say plainly that Christ died for all. With no modifier after the word "all".

    Rom 3:23 says "for all have sinned". That's why Christ died for all.

    The only reason to argue against everyone is because Calvinists hold that Christ died ONLY for the elect, a particular group. But, there are no verses that indicate that Christ's death was limited to less than everyone.
     
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  15. Jesus is YHWH

    Jesus is YHWH my Lord and my God ! Supporter

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    The difference between C's and non C's is that C's believe the atonement is made available to all but only appropriated by the elect. That is the distinction made by C's (calvinists).

    BTW- you made very good points in your post, good job !

    hope this helps !!!
     
  16. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Thanks!
     
  17. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    The words, "Off topic", in my original post began a paragraph with an off topic remark. I don't remember what it was, but "Off topic" was not written to say the discussion on the use of "all" was off topic. I would say, "my bad", but I don't know how the post got edited to leave that paragraph out.
     
  18. Mark Quayle

    Mark Quayle Well-Known Member Supporter

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    You left out vs. 15

    2 Corinthians 5:
    14
    For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all,
    then all died;
    15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves,
    but for Him who died for them and rose again.

    Seems pretty simple to me, to see that we are not all dead to sin, but only all the regenerated. The lost are not going to live for him, and I see no reason to think he expects them to.
     
  19. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    Well then, I'll say "my bad". Thanks for the info.
     
  20. FreeGrace2

    FreeGrace2 Senior Veteran

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    I included v.15 in my next post, v.14.

    2 Corinthians 5:
    14
    For the love of Christ compels us, because we judge thus: that if One died for all,
    then all died;
    15 and He died for all, that those who live should live no longer for themselves,
    but for Him who died for them and rose again.

    Seems pretty simple to me, to see that we are not all dead to sin, but only all the regenerated.[/QUOTE]
    OK, I see what you are saying. But neither verse says that Christ's death makes the believer "dead to sin".

    In v.14, "then all died" follows "if One died for all". So, to me, that means that because Christ did die for all, all did die (spiritually).

    I don't see this idea in either verse. The words "that those who live" refers to believers.

    But v.14 shows that Christ died for all because all were spiritually dead.
     
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