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Will we sin in our glorified state? If not, is it because we lose our free will when we go to Heaven?
I always thought it was because our sinful nature would finally be overcome and there would be no temptation. But let me clarify my previous statement. God could make people who didn't sin without interfering in their free will but they would have to remain in a place free of lies and temptation. Adam and Eve would likely never have sinned had they not been lied to by Satan.Reformationist said:
Peace, love and mercy to you in the blessed name of Jesus Christ, our God and Savior.
The only place, at least for us, that fits that description is in the heart of a glorified saint who lives in Heaven with God. Sin comes forth from the heart. It matters not whether there is external temptation. In fact, the desire to remove oneself from all external temptation is one of the primary reasons for monestaries. Monks sought to remove themselves from the outside world and force their flesh into submission through struggle. Were they less sinful than others? Of course not. There was rampant homosexuality as well as all sorts of depraved behavior. You see, a person can be a blind, deaf, mute quadriplegic and still sin in his/her mind. Temptation is just as prevalent, if not more so, in our own hearts.forgivensinner001 said:
Well, I cannot say whether this is true or not, nor do I think it proper to speculate on such a thing but I will tell you, simply, that satan had no power over Adam and Eve to make them sin. They sinned willingly and willingly exchanged the truth of God for a lie. Satan's lie is not the cause of their disobedience. The reason they disobeyed was because they wanted to disobey. The only way Adam and Eve would never have sinned is if God had had no laws and, thus, they would have no law to break.
No offense taken and I wish you God's blessing as well.So please don't be offended if I just shrug and walk away.
Whilst i have many problems with the logic presented by some Christians, i think your position here is the most plausible. Its what i would expect to be the case IF God is real. There are many arguments over God's omnipotence, omniscience, and benevolence. However, i could believe that the world is the way it is, even with Gods fore knowledge, because that is the only way that Gods plan can progress to its intended outcome. Maybe omnipotence isnt 'the ability to do absolutely anything'. Maybe its 'the ability to do anything that it is possible to do'. There is a difference.Reformationist said:
Once again, let me commend you on your wise and responsible approach to the issues of the Gospel. I am rather amazed and impressed that you understand these truths, even though you may not fully acknowledge them as the truth.anunbeliever said:
thats not quite true.. we receive our initial justificaiton at baptism, and are in every sense of the word "Saved" as we are born again, into the righteousness of Jesus. However we can lose our salvation, and do lose it with every grave sin we commit after baptism. We can regain it after that by going to confession and be absolved of our sin, and restored to our baptismal state.Orthodoxyusa said:
Forgive me....
I think if read "InnerPhyre" comment closely, you are in agreement... I had just never heard it that way and liked the drowning man scene...geocajun said:
well the first sentence "Once we are saved, we are always saved. The question is "when are we saved?""Orthodoxyusa said:I think if read "InnerPhyre" comment closely, you are in agreement... I had just never heard it that way and liked the drowning man scene...
Forgive me...
Yeah, but he is saying that we aren't saved until its all over and we are with God....geocajun said:
Its more than simply an attention getter - its just wrong. We are saved at baptism, at that time and place (Baptism now saves you). If you died immediately after being baptized, your judgement would be clear because at Baptism you died to your old self, and were born again into the body of Christ, clothed in the righteousness of Christ.Orthodoxyusa said:
O.K. - I'll go along with saying "it's wrong" if the statement were made alone, however he explained his statement with his next sentance.. I thought it was good...geocajun said:
fwiw, we do not as Catholics, speak of being assured of salvation either as a general statement, however after a child is baptized for example, it would be OK to speak of them as absolutely being in the friendship of God.Orthodoxyusa said:O.K. - I'll go along with saying "it's wrong" if the statement were made alone, however he explained his statement with his next sentance.. I thought it was good...
I am in agreement with what you have said, however as Orthodox we do not say that we are ever sure of our salvation "we hope" that we have worked out our salvation...:crosself:
Forgive me....
As respect to Creation it is the only logical explanation for the perfection of our universe.To say we simply evolved to me is the same as driving past a beautiful home and when you ask who built it being told that no one built it that over the years planes loaded with building supplies flew over and dropped items and they all fell perfectly in place.bmoynihan said:
No because, while you do know Christ and you turned away, the Lord will turn away from you. It is better to be a hot christian or a cold unbeliever for God will spit out the luke-warm christian.bmoynihan said:
