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Once Saved, Always Saved?

Underdog77

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bmoynihan said:
I really dislike this argument. Whal colour was the skin of Adam and Eve? If they were black does that mean that white is wrong because he didn't make Adam and Eve white?
That may be why we do not know the color of their skin. God may have left that info out because he did not want such hatred to have a foundation in the Bible. But what we do know is that He did create a man and a woman and cleary states in the Bible that all marraiges and sexual encounters are to happen between a man and woman only. Just as it says somewhere in Leviticus (I think) that it abominable to have sex with an animal, the Bible does not allow room for homosexual acts. God created man to be a man and to yearn for a woman, not another man.
 
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bmoynihan said:
I was a born-again Christian for quite a few years, I prayed every night, attended church, did the lot!
How do you know you were a "born again Christian?"

So if I died now when I am a non believer would I get to heaven IF it existed?
The Word of God is clear that those who truly and finally depart from the faith never were children of God to begin with. This may not be the case for you. At some point in your life you may return to being an obedient Christian. I would not presume to assume that you will but I will tell you that God often allows us to go through seasons of struggle which will, in reality, increase our faith in Him. Let me reiterate that the Gospel is clear that many who depart do so because God is showing us that they never were "of us."

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out that they might be made manifest, that none of them were of us.

If the reason you are asking is because you feel compelled to return to being a servant of God I encourage you to do so.

God bless
 
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Dust and Ashes

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bmoynihan said:
I believe that it was an illusion created by my mind, having said that I cannot see how that is 'blasphemy of the holy spirit' if it was to exsist.




I do not believe in Creation so I do not need to give anybody credit for it.


I really doubt it ever would, for me there are far too many holes in it.

1) Why does suffering occur if there is a god? (This is not the same as free will, you can have free will and still be protected from suffering)?

2) Why did god make us 'sinners' in the first place? If he is all knowing then when he created us he would have known about having to send jesus, why bother with such a pantomime?

3) Christians often defy the basic teachings and thus I have difficulty relating to them. The main point that annoys me is how judgemental Christians are on issues like Homosexuality. Why must Christians have a negative oppinion of such things if God alown is the judge? Even saying that only Christians get to heaven is judging!

4) The Bible was written by men hundreds of years after the event yet you base your religion on it. If there was a God why couldn't you just ask him for answers instead of looking towards a book written by men?

5) If there is a God what happened before him? Who made him? In all eternity why did he suddenly decide to make us? All sounds far too a primative concept for me.

Having said that I respect Christians for the good work that they do and for generally trying to be good and kind to others, hopefully this path may get them closer to enlightenment than by being a non believer in anything and by following a selfish path.

With Metta
1. God can't claim to allow free will if His prevention of someone's suffering interferes with my actions just because my actions might (deliberately or accidentally) result in someone's suffering.

2. Why bother watching a favorite movie if you know how it's going to end? God didn't make us sinners, we did that all by ourselves.

3. :amen: See the first part of my signature. We can judge the righteousness of actions but all too often we overstep our bounds and judge the people committing those actions without considering that sin begins in the heart and looking at what's in our own hearts. Being Orthodox, I believe that God is the judge and that everyone will be judged based on how they responded to God in the way He revealed Himself to them. Christians have the nasty habit of focusing too much on justice rather than mercy.

4. Being Orthodox, my Faith is based on Holy Tradition handed down from Christ to the Apostles and from the Apostles to us. The Bible is a big part of that Tradition but was never intended to be the sole source of revelation knowledge. We believe that the Word of God is a person, not a book.

5. There was no "before God" because He exists outside of time. He created time, therefore He can't be bound within it or by it. God didn't sit around for 10,000,000,000,000,000 years alone, then decide one day to create the universe. Before He created the universe, there was no such thing as time. In fact, there was nothing but God. I know it's a difficult concept to get your mind around but then how can we fully comprehend God when He is so far "above" and beyond us?

It truely is a pity that we Christians focus so much on selfish pursuits rather than sharing the Love that is so perfect. If you want to be really blessed, read about the lives of the Saints. St. Seraphim of Sarov is one of my favorites. http://www.fatheralexander.org/booklets/english/seraphim_e.htm

God's blessings to you.

Forgive me,

Brad
 
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Jesus_Inside

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bmoynihan said:
I really dislike this argument. What colour was the skin of Adam and Eve? If they were black does that mean that white is wrong because he didn't make Adam and Eve white?
I dont think it matters what color Adam and Eve were, and I dont beleave if any one knows for sure.

But I think that they were a nice tan color so it didn't matter if you are dark or light. ;)

Ps I don't know what they were, I'm just guessing.
 
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Reformationist

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Debbi said:
Once saved always saved, so does that mean if a christian blows their brains out, they still will go to heaven?
Whether a person does or does not go to Heaven has nothing to do with whether they do or do not blow their brains out.

God bless
 
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geocajun

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Reformationist said:
Whether a person does or does not go to Heaven has nothing to do with whether they do or do not blow their brains out.

God bless
thats not true, suicide is a serious matter... and if done with full knowledge, it can be a mortal sin.
 
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Reformationist

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geocajun said:
thats not true, suicide is a serious matter... and if done with full knowledge, it can be a mortal sin.
Well, I'm sure that you believe that. You're more than welcome to. I personally know that my position in the family of my Savior is secure because He is able to keep me, despite what I may do. This does not make me feel that I have license to sin. On the contrary, it gives me a desire to please Him.

God bless
 
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geocajun

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Reformationist said:
Well, I'm sure that you believe that. You're more than welcome to. I personally know that my position in the family of my Savior is secure because He is able to keep me, despite what I may do. This does not make me feel that I have license to sin. On the contrary, it gives me a desire to please Him.

God bless
I believe one your one the tree, you can be broken off, and there are sins unto death. this is all very biblical, however you are free to protest that.
 
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geocajun

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From the Catechism of the Catholic Church:

2282 If suicide is committed with the intention of setting an example, especially to the young, it also takes on the gravity of scandal. Voluntary co-operation in suicide is contrary to the moral law.
Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.

2281 Suicide contradicts the natural inclination of the human being to preserve and perpetuate his life. It is gravely contrary to the just love of self. It likewise offends love of neighbor because it unjustly breaks the ties of solidarity with family, nation, and other human societies to which we continue to have obligations. Suicide is contrary to love for the living God.

2325 Suicide is seriously contrary to justice, hope, and charity. It is forbidden by the fifth commandment.
 
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geocajun

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Reformationist said:
geo, just in case you're not aware, the catachism of your church only means something to those who submit to its authority.

God bless
yep, fully aware of that.
Just like how anyone who doesn't subscribe to the authority of the reformed theologians doesn't care much for what you have to say.
 
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Dust and Ashes

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geocajun said:
I believe one your one the tree, you can be broken off, and there are sins unto death. this is all very biblical, however you are free to protest that.
Romans 11:21 - "For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee."

Just one of many scriptures that I rationalized away or outright ignored when I was Baptist and believed OSAS. Also, keep in mind that most people who believe OSAS are staunch sola scriptura Baptists who will scoff at any extra-Biblical source simply because it is extra-Biblical.
 
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InnerPhyre

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Hebrews 10 23-27 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

Doesn't seem to jive with OSAS, does it?
 
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geocajun

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forgivensinner001 said:
Romans 11:21 - "For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee."

Just one of many scriptures that I rationalized away or outright ignored when I was Baptist and believed OSAS. Also, keep in mind that most people who believe OSAS are staunch sola scriptura Baptists who will scoff at any extra-Biblical source simply because it is extra-Biblical.
thats the verse I had in mind :)
 
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geocajun

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InnerPhyre said:
Hebrews 10 23-27 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.

Doesn't seem to jive with OSAS, does it?
it certaintly doesn't ;)
 
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MinDach

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The Great thing about the God I serve, he has so much love in him, that he will forgive any thing, but the blaspheme against the Holy Ghost . He left us with One commandment Love God with all your heart FIRST, then your neighbor. All the rest is laws........all the do & don't.......he knew we could not follow them...so he made a new way. If you love God, you are more likely not to needs laws, there are all ready written on your heart. You will know right & wrong.

Mar 3: 28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:


Mar 3:29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
 
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geocajun said:
yep, fully aware of that.
Just like how anyone who doesn't subscribe to the authority of the reformed theologians doesn't care much for what you have to say.
Nice. I didn't say I didn't care much for what you have to say. I said it holds no authority over us unless we submit to the authority of the church that provided the catachism. Your rudeness is uncalled for and unnecessary.
 
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Debbi

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So, you believe that it would be alright for me to just blow my brains out and God would still welcome me to heaven? As long as I had gotten saved once when I was a kid, don't matter what kind of life I lived afterwards or what addictions I got into? Or the occult stuff I had been into? You can justify it by saying I was just depressed, don't matter what it would do to my family, friends or bother God? Sorry, I have a little trouble buying all this. If a person really and truly knew and felt God's love, they would think twice about all this too. But I thought this was suppose to be a thread for non-christians. Non-christians that never was saved to start with wasn't saved to start with. I'm sorry, I lost your point. Even though I'm saved, I don't believe I would go to heaven if I committed suicide and I don't want to try it to prove the point.
 
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