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Once saved, always saved?

Discussion in 'Non-denominational' started by Purple Hyacinth, Mar 22, 2013.

  1. Purple Hyacinth

    Purple Hyacinth John 3:16

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    I just have a few questions...

    Do you believe a person is always saved, even though they are not going to Church and reading the Bible regularly?

    Do you believe only the "worthy" Christians will get raptured and many others will be left behind wondering why God did not take them?

    I forget the Bible verse where it states that, only the "select" will be raptured...

    Do you think that if a young child accepted Jesus and asked for forgiveness is always saved, even though now, as a teenager is not wanting to go to Church, is this typical teenage behavior?

    The teenager, believes in God and says they have accepted to Lord, but just don't like to talk about it "all the time" like the parent?

    Just wondering
     
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  2. Alithis

    Alithis Disciple of Jesus .

    +2,126
    New Zealand
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    belief -faith -obedience
    these are what is needed for salvation

    to everyone-Dont look for the rapture - look to love the lord Jesus and follow him wherever he will lead you . the rapture did not die for you nor save you nor redeem you .
    if you believe in the lord Jesus even though you DIE- yet will you LIVE
     
  3. HalfFull

    HalfFull Member

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    I believe if you follow the first commandment you are saved. Why? Cause if you did, you'd be seeking Him diligently, with all your heart, mind, strength, and soul. When you do that, and come into the knowledge and wisdom of God, and have faith in His word, that is what makes you saved. Do I believe people can lose their faith? Yes. If you're 'purposefully' living in sin, are you not dead spiritually? The wages of sin is death, right? Well how can you be alive in Christ and dead in sin at the same time? He says to repent, and sin no more, because you can't so both. Also, it says that in the last days people will 'turn from their faith' and go into sin, and thus, death.

    Confessing Jesus as your Lord is not just confessing He's your saviour. Do you deny yourself and take up your cross daily, like He says? Are you making the decisions in your life or are you presenting your body as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God? Again, I say, if you follow the first commandment, it is my belief you are saved, because when you seek God, sin will not only fall off of you like scales, but it will run for the hills. Sin cannot occupy a heart that is being indwelt by God Himself in the form of the Holy Spirit.
     
  4. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    The Lord said this:

    Luke 12:42 And the Lord said, Who then is that faithful and wise steward, whom his lord shall make ruler over his household, to give them their portion of meat in due season?

    Luke 12:43 Blessed is that servant, whom his lord when he cometh shall find so doing.

    Luke 12:44 Of a truth I say unto you, that he will make him ruler over all that he hath.

    Luke 12:45 But and if that servant say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming; and shall begin to beat the menservants and maidens, and to eat and drink, and to be drunken;

    Luke 12:46 The lord of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.

    The servant who is appointed a portion with the unbelievers (eternal torment) is the picture of a backslidden Christian. He is a servant who serves in the house of the Lord who says to himself..the Lord isn't going to be here in my lifetime..why not live it up? Then he starts living like the world does, getting drunk and reveling in sin, but the Lord comes back at a time he did not anticipate and He casts him out of His house forever.

    You can lose your salvation if you turn away from the Lord and saying a prayer as a child will not get you into Heaven. If someone has turned away from the Lord and isn't serving Him, they should have no expectation of making it into Heaven. Many times the Lord may be merciful and revive the faith of that person later in life, but there is no guarantee on that. If you know people like this in your life, witness to them, both with words and actions, because they are headed for destruction.
     
  5. peebly63

    peebly63 Well-Known Member

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    I do believe it is once saved always saved, if the blood of Jesus did atone for all our sins then it must be once and for all and literally forever..
     
  6. Yahu

    Yahu Jezebel's bain

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    You seem to be confusing saved verses sanctified. One is a one time event when we get the indwelling of the Holy Spirit and become a new creation. The other is the process of spiritual growth to become more christlike.

    Don't confuse works with salvation. If you require the works as proof of salvation, you turn it into a salvation by works. Salvation is a GIFT and that gift is free. Works are a manifestation of our spiritual growth process, not of salvation.

    Not growing to spiritual maturity is NOT a loss of salvation but it is a loss of eternal rewards. You have to overcome the trials of your life to gain the overcomers reward. So people don't risk being cast into the lake of fire but they do risk having no position of authority or glory within the kingdom. Of course the heavenly kingdom still needs the janitors and gardeners while others will be rulers over nations, priests or kings that share the throne room.

    So if you remember that salvation is a free gift while eternal rewards are earned it makes more sense. People are just jealous of those with salvation that don't live a holy life and accuse them of not being saved. We will each be rewarded according to our deeds after salvation.

    Now the Holy Spirit does use events in our life to draw us closer to Yah. You can't look at a persons current position and claim they are not saved. Most teenagers are going to be rebellious to a certain extent for example. I even knew a pastor that fell into a drug addiction. He got healed of it and now has a tremendous gift in delivering others out of addiction. Did he loose his salvation during that time of his life? Absolutely NOT.

    Just help the spiritually immature to grow in their maturity without slapping the babies for being babies.

    Remember this, none of us are worthy. We all fall short in glory. We can achieve great glory in the eternal kingdom by the amount of His glory we allow to operate through us during our growth process.

    You work out your own salvation not your brethren. The salvation spoken of here is the 'salvation of the soul', the like long process of sanctification not the salvation of the spirit, your initial act of being saved.

    Many confuse that salvation of the soul with salvation of the spirit. Realize that some will just barely crawl through the heavenly gates in their spiritual diapers while others will be robed in glorious white robes and be worthy to walk in white with Yeshua.

    Just getting in the gates is the very beginning. There is a lot more to achieve after salvation to gain great rewards.
     
  7. Purple Hyacinth

    Purple Hyacinth John 3:16

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    WOW! and THANKYOU! this helped me so much! I have never had this explained to me in such a way I understand. Btw... I love gardening and just came in from planting my vegetable garden. I think I could be happy being a gardener up in Heaven!
     
  8. Yahu

    Yahu Jezebel's bain

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    Eventually everyone will be happy in the position they get in the heavenly kingdom because it will be JUST and the position we earned. There will be wailing and nashing of teeth when people realize what opportunities they missed out on but then they will be content with what they did gain.

    The point is don't shoot for the lowest position in the kingdom.

    Now Paul says, 'should we sin that grace may abound? No'. We are not to live in the flesh knowing grace will cover all sin because we have salvation. We are to shoot for the 'high calling' and go for the greater rewards. That isn't done by religious works but in our spiritual growth. Works will be a result of that growth.

    For example, I never went looking to be in ministry but I got called into one any way. I just stood up for biblical principals while being confronted with witchcraft while in the military. I led the other Christians in opposition to the evil spread by the coven on base. As a result I was also asked to counsel many people. I did marriage, relationship and rape counseling. It started out just by teaching my fiance what I expected in our relationship. I taught her courtship verses dating. It turned out her roommate led the coven on base.

    Just be a willing vessel for Yah to use for His purposes. Now the more scripture you know, the more the Holy Spirit can draw on. You don't turn reading your bible into a work. It should be a hunger to know Him and His ways.
     
  9. the.Sheepdog

    the.Sheepdog You must be born again!

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    “Believe in the One He has sent” (John 6:28-29). Believing in the one He sent means believing that Jesus died for our sins and rose again (1 Cor. 15:1-4). Everyone who believes that is in the Church and will go in the rapture.

    Thats it. Once you believe this you are born again with no requirements to works or read or do anything behaviorally. It is a gift. A 3 year old can accept a gift. Why cant so called intelligent adults?
     
  10. thesunisout

    thesunisout growing in grace Supporter

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    Fully agree with this statement, however, just because salvation is a free gift doesn't mean you can't throw it away. Why do you think Paul admonishes us to examine ourselves to see if we are in the faith? Jesus warns us many times that if we do not abide in Him, He will not abide in us. Here is a specific warning pertaining to forgiveness:

    Matthew 6:15

    But if you do not forgive others their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins

    Can someone with unforgiven sin enter the Kingdom? Is it works then to forgive? This is not talking about a works based salvation. Works don't justify us before the Father, only what Jesus did on the cross justifies us. This is talking about abiding in Christ, and if you're not in Christ, you aren't in the Kingdom.

    John 15:7

    If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
     
  11. HalfFull

    HalfFull Member

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    Let me ask, in all due respect, then, once we are saved and accept the gift of salvation... Let's just say I changed my mind and jumped right back into sinning, or let's just say I became a Satanist and then died suddenly. Is my salvation secure?


    Salvation isn't of works, we agree on that, but it is of acceptance. Does God's mercy extend to those who once accepted Him but changed their mind and retraced their footsteps through the broad path?
    Is this blasphemy of the Holy Spirit? Hmm.

    Edit: Did not see the post above me, but I do concur.
     
  12. IvinViljoen

    IvinViljoen New Member

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    I believe so, do Christ have to die again? You don't have to go to a 'Church' per se, maybe it's a good idea to be in fellowship with other believers.

    There's no such thing as a rapture in the Bible. Those that will be taken away are the unbelievers. Why would Christ create this awesome, beautiful earth and place us here if he's going to take us away and destroy it?

    Don't know the 'select' off-hand. It may be a reference to the 144000, but I'm not sure...

    Yes, teenagers are like that, he may just be offended with something or someone, my guess (and hope) is that they'll come around.
     
  13. trulyconverted

    trulyconverted Junior Member

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    Yes. Your salvation is a gift from God, the other things will come along with it.

    The unsaved will be gathered first. Then the believers will meet with the Lord.

    The bible mentions those elect, who God chose before the foundation of the world. Therefore, the Lord will save His people, at whatever age they may be, only at God's appointed time. Depend upon it.

    Salvation is very personal between God and the person involved. But in my experience, we usually love talking about God. It delights us to speak about Him.

    Salvation belongs to the Lord. He will save whom He pleases. We can only ask Him for this gift.
     
  14. trulyconverted

    trulyconverted Junior Member

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    If we are truly saved, and have the Holy Spirit indwelling in us, I do not think we will change our minds about this. It is most wonderful to be saved. Incomparable.

    We sometimes can 'slide' back into sinning but only to a slight degree that God allows. But He always pulls us back to Him because we have the Spirit in us who will make it possile to be drawn back to God.

    If you became a Satanist afterwards, I would say you were never truly saved. The Holy Spirit never dwelt in your heart.

    I would say salvation is when the Lord puts His Spirit in us to dwell in our hearts.

    God alone can save us. As long as we have breath in us, no matter the choices we make in life, no matter how old/young we are, there is still the hope of salvation in Christ.

    Does not the bible point this to... When the Spirit of God works, the people denied that it was God's work.
     
  15. peebly63

    peebly63 Well-Known Member

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    who ever is saved will carry on sinning in the way of doing things we shouldn't because the flesh, us, is weak, the difference is the sin that separated us from God, which is the rebellion from him, not choosing in faith to be with him if you like has been taken away, just like the curtain in the tabernacle that separated others from God, that has been torn away once and for all and can never separate you again from God's love and Grace and his free gift of righteousness...

    God now sees you as perfect like he sees Jesus...
     
  16. HalfFull

    HalfFull Member

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    If we go and sin anyway, why does Jesus say 'Go and sin no more?' Why all the talk of taming the tongue, put ON righteousness and cast away our old nature, etc.? Why all the fuss if we 'do it anyway'? We will never be perfect, and will sin, but the point is to become so close to God, walk in the spirit, deny ourselves EVERYTHING that comes in the way of that, become a living sacrifice HOLY and pleasing to God. If sinning is just 'what we do', why the call to no longer do it? We are NEW creatures in Christ, the old has passed away, and He perfects us by His word. We'll sin along the way, but our hope is that sin stay as far away as possible. For the wages of sin is death... How can I be made alive in Christ if sin abounds?

    Edit: In my hastiness, I misread what you said I do believe that to be true. If we have a spirit of obediance, we are saved.
     
    Last edited: Mar 27, 2013
  17. Eric Hibbert

    Eric Hibbert Guest

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    In order for OSAS to be true, a person has to be once saved, before he can be always saved.

    If a person repeatedly forsakes the assembly of believers, doesn't submit himself to a local church, and has no love for God's Word, wouldn't that indicate a lack of the fruit the Bible says is an indication of salvation?

    No Christian is worthy.

    Again, if they're not exhibiting fruit or growing in sanctification, what makes you think they were saved in the first place?
     
  18. peebly63

    peebly63 Well-Known Member

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    it is beneficial to us to not sin, we can walk a more peaceful easier walk and gives the enemy less ammunition in the form of condemnation to throw at us but to me the fact remains Jesus that Jesus died for our sins 2000 years or more earlier, so if that didn't atone for all sins for all past present and future it could not have atoned for any after the day he was crucified..

    Grace comes as a free gift as does righteousness or right stnading with God as some would say...

    none of our salvation is based upon our works thank goodness..
     
  19. peebly63

    peebly63 Well-Known Member

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    the bible does say do not forsake the gathering of the brethren so meeting is important but it is not part of salvation either before or after, while it may demonstrate fruits of the spirit, the need for demonstration is possibly for men rather God who knows your heart and mind rather than religious outward signs...
     
  20. Eric Hibbert

    Eric Hibbert Guest

    +0
    The Fruit of the Spirit is something else entirely.

    I'm sorry you feel the way you do, but the Bible tells us that there are four primary ways we can know we are saved:

    1. Our testimony
    2. Our doctrine
    3. Our fruit
    4. Our sanctification

    What you're describing is a failure on #3-4.

    Sounds like you have your ecclesiology messed up.
     
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