Once saved, always saved?

[KathyM]

Once saved always saved. That is why the Lord is known as the Good Shephard, once your in his flock, you will never be lost.

Kathy

 

[bbbbbbb]

Once saved always saved. That is why the Lord is known as the Good Shephard, once your in his flock, you will never be lost.

Kathy

Yes, and Christ Himself said that God and He hold his people in His hand and nobody can snatch them out of his hand. That nobody also includes those held within His hand.

 

[BondiHarry]

Yes, and Christ Himself said that God and He hold his people in His hand and nobody can snatch them out of his hand. That nobody also includes those held within His hand.

By that I guess the trick is how do you know you are in God's hand? The Matthew 7 Lord, Lord crowd is certainly convinced they're saved but they not only are not in God's hand, Jesus doesn't even know them.

 

[Isolation]

A doctrine like this is exclusively a NT only thing, but through out the rest of the bible it contradicts it plainly

 

[Rick Otto]

The rest of the bible would be the OT.
The Law was the bill. Jesus paid it.

 

[Isolation]

Yeah he did.
But what would happen if someone were to walk from their righteousness?

 

[Montalban]

Once saved always saved. That is why the Lord is known as the Good Shephard, once your in his flock, you will never be lost.

Kathy

Why's he talk of the Good Shepheard who leaves his flock behind?

 

[Montalban]

The rest of the bible would be the OT.
The Law was the bill. Jesus paid it.

God doesn't want for anything. It's flawed to think that God needs to be re-paid.

 

[Rick Otto]

Yeah he did.
But what would happen if someone were to walk from their righteousness?

What does that mean?

 

[bibleblevr]

The once saved always saves question can't have a yes or know answer, because it is asking two questions at the same time, one I want to say yes to, and one I want to say no to.

here is your question split into it's rightful two parts:

1 Can those that God predestined ever become not predestined?
The answer is no, anything other would be selfcotradictory, if one is predestined for heaven, and he doesn't end up there, he wasn't predestined in the first place

2 Can Someone have all the Christian stuff, like the Holy spirit, the fruit, the understanding of the truth, seem to be a good elect christian, then fall away?
Yes!
It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6 and who have fallen[a] away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.

Paul tells us to make our election sure, to run the race to completion, and to work out our salvation with fear and much trembling. Only those who persevere to the end will be saved.

If you have seen some verse for eternal security then wonder about why some seem to go against it, I suggest you try splitting up the question as I did, and watch as these biblical truths fall into place.

 

[Isolation]

What does that mean?

Ezekiel 18
But when a righteous man turns away from his righteousness and commits iniquity, and does according to all the abominations that the wicked man does, shall he live? All the righteousness which he has done shall not be remembered; because of the unfaithfulness of which he is guilty and the sin which he has committed, because of them he shall die.
“Yet you say, ‘The way of the Lord is not fair.’ Hear now, O house of Israel, is it not My way which is fair, and your ways which are not fair? When a righteous man turns away from his righteousness, commits iniquity, and dies in it, it is because of the iniquity which he has done that he dies.

 

[Ortho_Cat]

The latter part of 1Corinth scares me...

I think RC's typically use these verses to support purgatory, IIRC

 

[Noxot]

It is an utter offense to me when people tell me that I never knew Jesus Christ or had an intimate relationship with him when those people do not even know my heart at all. Nor do they know what the Lord has spoken to me by the prophets. Nor do they know my subsequent choices of bitterness and other vices.

1Cor 7:10-11 (ESV)
(7:10) To the married I give this charge (not I, but the Lord): the wife should not separate from her husband (7:11) (but if she does, she should remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband), and the husband should not divorce his wife.

the Church is the bride and Jesus Christ is the bridegroom. since God is good and a creation with free will can bring forth the best good, it follows that the Lord will always enable us to have free will and to be able to choose Him or something else.

Isa 50:1 (ASV)
(50:1) Thus saith Jehovah, Where is the bill of your mother’s divorcement, wherewith I have put her away? or which of my creditors is it to whom I have sold you? Behold, for your iniquities were ye sold, and for your transgressions was your mother put away. ​​

Matt 5:31-32 (ESV)
(5:31) “It was also said, ‘Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.’ (5:32) But I say to you that everyone who divorces his wife, except on the ground of sexual immorality, makes her commit adultery, and whoever marries a divorced woman commits adultery.

So then I say that OSAS is not true because if the bride does not want to be married to God, then she has lost her salvation. She has lost her life because Jesus Christ is the Life. To think that God would keep us against our free will, is to blasphemy the character of God. Though He in no way wants us to use our free will for evil.

 

[HereIStand]

Scripture teaches that we can be assured of salvation. Yet, there are passages which teach that the Christian life will not be dominated by sin (Matthew 7:21-23 as mentioned) and that good works will be the outgrowth of faith (Matthew 25:31-46).

The key question though is: Can I base my assurance of salvation on my level of repentance either in turning away from sin or in doing good? Answer: No, not if I want to have confidence in faith.

We need to base our assurance of salvation not on ourselves but on the promises of salvation in Scripture:

John 5:24: “…anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life.”

John 6:37 “…anyone who comes to me I will never drive away;”

John 11:26 “…everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.”

John 3:15 “…whoever believes in him may have eternal life.”

Luke 10:20 “…rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Romans 8:1: “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.”

Romans 10:9: “…if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

I John 5:1: “Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God…”

 

[BondiHarry]

Scripture teaches that we can be assured of salvation. Yet, there are passages which teach that the Christian life will not be dominated by sin (Matthew 7:21-23 as mentioned) and that good works will be the outgrowth of faith (Matthew 25:31-46).

The key question though is: Can I base my assurance of salvation on my level of repentance either in turning away from sin or in doing good? Answer: No, not if I want to have confidence in faith.

We need to base our assurance of salvation not on ourselves but on the promises of salvation in Scripture:

John 5:24: “…anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life.”

John 6:37 “…anyone who comes to me I will never drive away;”

John 11:26 “…everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.”

John 3:15 “…whoever believes in him may have eternal life.”

Luke 10:20 “…rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Romans 8:1: “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.”

Romans 10:9: “…if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

I John 5:1: “Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God…”

Yet there are going to be many people who have convinced themselves that they have 'faith', that they 'believe' in Jesus who will be turned away on the day of judgment because they were workers of iniquity.

We are saved by grace which comes by faith which comes by hearing the word of God. Why is hearing the word of God important? Because by the word of God we can know what the saved man looks like, what changes can be expected as God's Holy Spirit conforms us to the likeness of Jesus. We can also know what the unsaved man looks like.

In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." (John 5:3)

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. (Ezekiel 36:26)

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, fiaht, meekness, temperance. (Galatians 5:22-23)

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!. (2 Corinthians 5:17)

The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. (Psalm 37:23)

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. (Hebrews 5:9)

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5)

Why call ye me Lord, Lord and do not the things which I say. (Luke 6:46)

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)

 

[HereIStand]

Yet there are going to be many people who have convinced themselves that they have 'faith', that they 'believe' in Jesus who will be turned away on the day of judgment because they were workers of iniquity.

We are saved by grace which comes by faith which comes by hearing the word of God. Why is hearing the word of God important? Because by the word of God we can know what the saved man looks like, what changes can be expected as God's Holy Spirit conforms us to the likeness of Jesus. We can also know what the unsaved man looks like.

In reply Jesus declared, "I tell you the truth, no one can see the kingdom of God unless he is born again." (John 5:3)

A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh. (Ezekiel 36:26)

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, fiaht, meekness, temperance. (Galatians 5:22-23)

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!. (2 Corinthians 5:17)

The steps of a good man are ordered by the LORD: and he delighteth in his way. (Psalm 37:23)

And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him. (Hebrews 5:9)

Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? (2 Corinthians 13:5)

Why call ye me Lord, Lord and do not the things which I say. (Luke 6:46)

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. (Matthew 7:21)

I don't deny those verses or what you've said. Faith is not a one time decision. But ultimately, to paraphrase Augustine, we will be resurrected because we believe he has been resurrected, not because I've achieved a certain level of obedience.

 

[MrPolo]

We need to base our assurance of salvation not on ourselves but on the promises of salvation in Scripture:

John 5:24: “…anyone who hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life, and does not come under judgment, but has passed from death to life.”

John 6:37 “…anyone who comes to me I will never drive away;”

John 11:26 “…everyone who lives and believes in me will never die.”

John 3:15 “…whoever believes in him may have eternal life.”

Luke 10:20 “…rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

Romans 8:1: “There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.”

Romans 10:9: “…if you confess with your lips that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.”

I John 5:1: “Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has been born of God…”

Yes, if one believes he will be saved. Yes, if one is "in Christ" he will be saved. But none of these passages say that those who believe will necessarily always believe or always "remain in him" as the Apostles exhorted their audiences. Scripture also indicates that one's name can be blotted out of the book of Life. God remains faithful, yes. But can we make shipwreck of our faith? Yes. Is that common among true believers? Maybe not. But absolute assurance is not taught by Scripture.

 

[MamaZ]

So then if Jesus saves me does he completely save me? Or does He fail?

 

[Tangible]

Yeah he did.
But what would happen if someone were to walk from their righteousness?

What does that mean?

Let's take a hypothetical situation, shall we?

A man grows up in a Christian home. As a youth he is convicted of his sinful state and trusts in Christ alone for his salvation. He is baptized (exactly when doesn't matter.) Good works done through faith out of thankfulness for salvation received and not in order to earn salvation flow freely in his life. He serves faithfully in his church and decides to prepare for a life in the ministry. He goes to college, seminary, etc., and is called to serve in an average congregation in an average town. He marries a lovely Christian lady and has several children. He serves the Lord faithfully in the ministry for ten years. His church steadily grows, mostly from new converts, and is the most well-known and well-respected ministry in the region.

At that point he begins to take notice of a stunningly beautiful woman, the wife of one of the church elders. They begin a secret, illicit affair. His sermons are now focused on how we have forgiveness of sins regardless of our beliefs or behavior, and eventually he begins to teach that there is no literal Hell and that "love wins out" for everyone in the end.

The remaining members of his church are getting very nervous and have quietly begun the process of finding a new pastor. Meanwhile, his Universalism continues to develop and he begins to teach that there are many ways to heaven, which is more probably a place within our hearts and an attitude of living more than a literal spiritual place anyway. He begins to refer to God in gender-neutral terms. He begins to teach that the Resurrection of Christ doesn't necessarily need to be believed to be an actual, physical resurrection, but that it could have been simply the way that the apostles honored their teacher's memory.

Eventually, he claims that he has had a word from God who is leading him to divorce his wife and to shack up with his mistress, with whom he is going to leave to start up a joint Jewish-Christian-Hindu temple somewhere in Switzerland.

(OK, that was long, but I was having fun. )

Was this guy a Christian (was he saved)?
Is he still saved at the end of his "spiritual journey"?

 

[Montalban]

So then if Jesus saves me does he completely save me? Or does He fail?

Do you have a choice? Do you cease to have a choice? Does God then deny you choice?