Once saved always saved?

[Jim47]

This is such a fundamental part of our faith, but no-one seems to know for sure. I certainly don't. I think yes, but it'd be good for us to discuss it.

Equally, we all sin every day so, as many believe, do we need to repent in order to stay saved? If we don't repent, do we lose salvation? If so, what did Jesus accomplish on the Cross if not our salvation?

Maybe collectively we'll come up with some never before discovered jewel of information that tells us definitively one way or the other

The short answer is we aren't saved because of repentance from daily sins. We are saved because God gave us faith in Jesus as our Savior.

Eph 2:1 As for you, you were dead in your transgressions and sins,
Eph 2:2 in which you used to live when you followed the ways of this world and of the ruler of the kingdom of the air, the spirit who is now at work in those who are disobedient.
Eph 2:3 All of us also lived among them at one time, gratifying the cravings of our sinful nature and following its desires and thoughts. Like the rest, we were by nature objects of wrath.
Eph 2:4 But because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy,
Eph 2:5 made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions—it is by grace you have been saved.
Eph 2:6 And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus,
Eph 2:7 in order that in the coming ages he might show the incomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus.
Eph 2:8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God—
Eph 2:9 not by works, so that no one can boast

 

[Jim47]

You cannot lose salvation, but you can reject it.

Correcto mundo

 

[A New Dawn]

That's exactly how I see it, too So what does it mean to reject it? People who were Christian and then turned their back on it and converted to Islam or Buddhism or get involved in occultism, for example... or if you reject it, does that mean you were never one of the elect?

Why would God offer salvation to someone who is going to reject it? Is Christ's sacrifice in vain? You were either predestined for heaven, or predestined for hell. If you reject it, then you were never elect to begin with.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

Why would God offer salvation to someone who is going to reject it? Is Christ's sacrifice in vain? You were either predestined for heaven, or predestined for hell. If you reject it, then you were never elect to begin with.

I'm not sure I agree with that first bit... I think God offers salvation to *everyone*; even people that flat out reject it straight off the bat.

 

[Zugzwang]

ok, so no one wants to adresse the whole blotting the name out of the book post?

ok.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

ok, so no one wants to adresse the whole blotting the name out of the book post?

ok.

It'll be discussed It's just the traffic in this thread hasn't been very trafficky tonight. Someone will come along who wants to comment on it, though

 

[A New Dawn]

I'm not sure I agree with that first bit... I think God offers salvation to *everyone*; even people that flat out reject it straight off the bat.

There is a generalized call to everyone. There is a specific call to those with "ears to hear". Only those with ears to hear will hear. They are the elect. If someone rejects it, they did not have ears to hear.

 

[GreenMunchkin]

There is a generalized call to everyone. There is a specific call to those with "ears to hear". Only those with ears to hear will hear. They are the elect. If someone rejects it, they did not have ears to hear.

No, that I agree with

But I'm still not sure someone can't willfully choose to reject Christ even after they've known Him.

 

[A New Dawn]

Obviously i'm new to this part of CF, I too tend to lean towards OSAS, cept when I don't "feel" saved, b/c of whatever. However, the eventual question always comes up that should be adressed about this topic...

There's a verse that mentions God BLOTTING OUT someone's name in the book of life, so obviously they WERE saved, yet their salvation was removed by God, so how do you explain that?

Now instead of just agreeing, we can actually discuss it.

There is only one verse in the Bible that mentions blotting something out, and it is not in relation to the Book of Life.

Colossians 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross;

There are 8 verses about the Book of Life

Philippians 4:3 And I intreat thee also, true yokefellow, help those women which laboured with me in the gospel, with Clement also, and [with] other my fellowlabourers, whose names [are] in the book of life

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Revelation 13:8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

Revelation 17:8 The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

Revelation 20:15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Revelation 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither [whatsoever] worketh abomination, or [maketh] a lie: but they which are written in the Lamb's book of life.

Revelation 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

Revelation 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is [the book] of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.


Were you thinking of one of the above verses?

 

[Angel4Truth]

Revelation 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

 

[Zugzwang]

lets look at this in context, ok?

Revelation 3:1-5 “And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead. Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before God. Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels”.

i see a big difference when taken in context.

 

[A New Dawn]

So, I am confused. Are you saying that that scripture implies that someone's name can be blotted out of the book of life? I think it implies just the opposite. I see it as an assurance of salvation, that people will not have their names removed from the book.

 

[drstevej]

 

[Albion]

So, I am confused. Are you saying that that scripture implies that someone's name can be blotted out of the book of life? I think it implies just the opposite. I see it as an assurance of salvation, that people will not have their names removed from the book.

The verse that was quoted by Zugz said that there would NOT be a blotting out, so I don't see how you could be wrong.

Of course the verse can be made to look different if it is reproduced like this: I will not blot out

with the "not" deemphasized and the "blot out" emphasized.

 

[IamRedeemed]

I think it depends on what one's definition of it is. We can know we are saved by where we are in our walk. We know if we are walking with the Lord or not, therefore everyday we can know if we died that day, we will be with Him in eternity. We know if we have contended for the faith or if we were lukewarm.

If we are backslidden there is a good reason to get back to moving forward. Because you can only go back so far, before one is cut off and turned over to a reprobate mind, and a veil placed over one's eyes by the Lord that they will no longer be able to see the truth. There is a load of Scripture that does not back the "doctrine" of once saved always saved, in the way it is presented. Many think they say a "sinner's prayer" and they are good to go!
That's a lie.

If we find ourselves comfortable in a backslidden state, we are then lukewarm and on our way to growing cold. We don't have to be cold to be spewed from the Lord's mouth.

One such Scripture, off the top of my head that refutes OSAS completely is Revelation 3:5, out of the mouth of Jesus, regarding blotting the name of one out of the book of Life. (as I said there are tons of other Scriptures that refute it. Choosing Christ and committing to following Him for the rest of our lives is NOT summed up in a little ole "sinner's prayer."

If one's name was never there in the Book of Life to begin with as OSAS doctrine beholders claim, how is it possible that there could there be a threat of it being blotted out?

[SIZE=-1]Revelation 3:5
[/SIZE]He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.
[SIZE=-1]
[/SIZE]

This is such a fundamental part of our faith, but no-one seems to know for sure. I certainly don't. I think yes, but it'd be good for us to discuss it.

Equally, we all sin every day so, as many believe, do we need to repent in order to stay saved? If we don't repent, do we lose salvation? If so, what did Jesus accomplish on the Cross if not our salvation?

Maybe collectively we'll come up with some never before discovered jewel of information that tells us definitively one way or the other

 

[IamRedeemed]

So, I am confused. Are you saying that that scripture implies that someone's name can be blotted out of the book of life? I think it implies just the opposite. I see it as an assurance of salvation, that people will not have their names removed from the book.

I did not read all of the posts before I replied, but I see that some have already quoted Rev. 3:5

No, your understanding is not correct on that verse, in that there is a condition spoken by the Lord as are most of His promises. You will see here, that the condition is for "he that overcomes". Not he who says a sinner's prayer and then continues to live the same life he always did or attempts to enter in by a life of compromise and serving two masters.

"He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Rev. 3:5

Some additional Scriptures to look at closely are Hebrews 6:4-6
Hebrews 10:26-31 , John 15:1-4, 1 Corinthians 10:1-12 , Romans 12:1, Romans 8:13-17 , 2 Peter 2:20-22 , James 1:22

 

[A New Dawn]

I did not read all of the posts before I replied, but I see that some have already quoted Rev. 3:5

No, your understanding is not correct on that verse, in that there is a condition spoken by the Lord as are most of His promises. You will see here, that the condition is for "he that overcomes". Not he who says a sinner's prayer and then continues to live the same life he always did or attempts to enter in by a life of compromise and serving two masters.

"He that overcomes, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels." Rev. 3:5

Some additional Scriptures to look at closely are Hebrews 6:4-6
Hebrews 10:26-31 , John 15:1-4, 1 Corinthians 10:1-12 , Romans 12:1, Romans 8:13-17 , 2 Peter 2:20-22 , James 1:22

Being that I am a Calvinist, and believe in the perseverance of the saints, and that, when we are born again, we are created for good works, I believe that that would be the same as "overcoming" or enduring to the end.

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

 

[DaRev]

If you are of the elect (your name was written in the book of life from the foundation of the world), you will be saved. If you are not of the elect (your name wasn't written in the book of life from the foundation of the world), you will not be saved.

The problem with this then would be the reason for the crucifixion of Christ. If God has already determined who will be saved and who will be damned, then there was absolutely no point in the suffering and death of Jesus.

The fact is that our salvation is completely and totally God's doing. Our damnation is completely and totally our own doing. Grace is indeed resistible. If it were not, then Adam and Eve would not have been able to sin in the Garden.

 

[furry001]

If you are of the elect (your name was written in the book of life from the foundation of the world), you will be saved. If you are not of the elect (your name wasn't written in the book of life from the foundation of the world), you will not be saved.

Ephesians 1:4-5 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love: Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Revelation 17:8 ... whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

A couple of problems arise when you take this stance, namely the "whosoever". John 3:16 says, "...that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish..." There are others but this will suffice. If only the elect can be saved, why did Jesus say that whosoever believeth shall be saved?

On topic, OSAS is true because John 3 tells us that "ye must be born again". Someone who is born cannot be unborn. Spiritually speaking if we are born again, we have eternal life and we cannot die (we cannot be unborn).

 

[A New Dawn]

A couple of problems arise when you take this stance, namely the "whosoever". John 3:16 says, "...that whosoever believeth on Him should not perish..." There are others but this will suffice. If only the elect can be saved, why did Jesus say that whosoever believeth shall be saved?

On topic, OSAS is true because John 3 tells us that "ye must be born again". Someone who is born cannot be unborn. Spiritually speaking if we are born again, we have eternal life and we cannot die (we cannot be unborn).

Because the "whosoever believeth" are the elect.