Once Saved Always Saved....

[MeekOne]

Do you believe this??? If so, I could really use some assistance in getting out the truth of the gospel here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t1240933-do-you-believe-that-once-you-are-saved-you-are-always-saved-2.html&page=91#post17636647

As a Sister in Christ, and a defender of the truth, I would certainly appreciate any help any one of you could give. Please help the believers understand the TRUE message of the gospel. Thank you so very much for any help you can give.

 

[Richard]

I just to be in that debate with Ben Johnson, yet he is so smart, there is no sense in fighting with him.

 

[Lynn73]

I'm afraid this subject has been debated for ever and you won't get everyone to agree on it. But yes I do believe in OSAS. God gave me that assurance long ago when I first started hearing about losing salvation. I was a fairly young Christian and it put me in a panic. I couldn't save myself and I sure can't keep myself. If Jesus doesn't keep me then I won't be saved.

 

[MeekOne]

I just to be in that debate with Ben Johnson, yet he is so smart, there is no sense in fighting with him.

The only smart one is the Lord. His Word is filled with things that are against what Ben Johnson is saying to the world, and he needs to be shown that or be left as a false teacher. I understand what you mean by letting it go, and I commend you for doing that. I will probably need to do that as well someday, but still have hope at this time that he will see what God wants to tell him. Thank you for your sincerity.

 

[MeekOne]

I'm afraid this subject has been debated for ever and you won't get everyone to agree on it. But yes I do believe in OSAS. God gave me that assurance long ago when I first started hearing about losing salvation. I was a fairly young Christian and it put me in a panic. I couldn't save myself and I sure can't keep myself. If Jesus doesn't keep me then I won't be saved.

I agree with you there, not everyone will agree on this truth. I guess it has to be experienced in order to believe it...just like doubting Thomas who had to put his finger in the Lord's side in order to truly believe that he was risen. Jesus will keep us saved. Thank you, Sister, so much for responding on that thread, your posts were truly appreciated!

 

[homewardbound]

I'm afraid this subject has been debated for ever and you won't get everyone to agree on it. But yes I do believe in OSAS. God gave me that assurance long ago when I first started hearing about losing salvation. I was a fairly young Christian and it put me in a panic. I couldn't save myself and I sure can't keep myself. If Jesus doesn't keep me then I won't be saved.

I would agree that as long as you continue to trust in Jesus Christ, once saved, always saved. But what if for some unforeseen reason you decide a year from now that Christianity isn't your cup of tea, and reject the gospel and go off to live a life of sin. Would you say you were never truly saved in the first place, that you were still saved anyway, or that salvation can be lost?

I'm curious because Hebrews 6 would seem to say that salvation can be lost if a believer turns his or her back and rejects the truth. And yet so many believe in OSAS. For the record, I don't believe in it, but I'm open to the possibility and hold nothing at all against those who do.

 

[eldermike]

Excuse me: two points
1) The passage in Heb simply means it's impossible to fall away.

2) returning to sin is not falling away.

 

[homewardbound]

Excuse me: two points
1) The passage in Heb simply means it's impossible to fall away.

2) returning to sin is not falling away.

It sounds then that you're saying a Christian who abandons his faith and returns to a life of sin was never saved in the first place?

 

[homewardbound]

Believe it or not, I actually understand what you are saying here.

Homewardbound, statrei makes a very valid point. I understand you want to ask the question, but even with his responses, it is stated very clear. Scripture taken as a whole tells us that the Lord died for ALL of our sins that one day over 2000 years ago. When He died for them ALL, He died for them ALL. We do not hang Him again on the cross for every single sin we commit after we have been saved by His amazing grace. Unless, you can claim you are perfect and do not sin, you must understand the concept. Yes?

Yes, I understand the concept well. Maybe I need to reword the question. The thing is, I have no desire whatsoever to debate any of this...just want to understand. So, thanks for your reply!

 

[Wildwood]

I would agree that as long as you continue to trust in Jesus Christ, once saved, always saved. But what if for some unforeseen reason you decide a year from now that Christianity isn't your cup of tea, and reject the gospel and go off to live a life of sin. Would you say you were never truly saved in the first place, that you were still saved anyway, or that salvation can be lost?

I'm curious because Hebrews 6 would seem to say that salvation can be lost if a believer turns his or her back and rejects the truth. And yet so many believe in OSAS. For the record, I don't believe in it, but I'm open to the possibility and hold nothing at all against those who do.

I can see that there has been some discussion, but that you would like people to share how they would answer these questions.

First, if I understand the premise of the question, if a person becomes a Believer in Jesus Christ (has faith) and later decides that he no longer believes and no longer follows Him....

Second, the question is do I believe that the person was "never truly saved", or the person is "still saved," or the person was saved when he believed but he has lost his salvation--in light of Hebrews 6.

By "saved" I mean reconciled to God by faith in Christ's sacrifice with the promise of eternal life in His presence.

Hebrews 6 describes two groups of people: people who were "enlightened" in v. 4 and people who have "salvation" in v. 9. Commentaries indicate that those who were "enlightened" never had faith. The verses indicate that they came close enough to "taste" it but then fell away.

To answer the question, I believe he either never truly had faith so he was never truly saved, or, although he may say he no longer believes and lives in rebellion, he still has a faith that is struggling and he still has salvation. I don't believe he had a saving faith and then lost it because of what Jesus said: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:27-28

 

[homewardbound]

I can see that there has been some discussion, but that you would like people to share how they would answer these questions.

First, if I understand the premise of the question, if a person becomes a Believer in Jesus Christ (has faith) and later decides that he no longer believes and no longer follows Him....

Second, the question is do I believe that the person was "never truly saved", or the person is "still saved," or the person was saved when he believed but he has lost his salvation--in light of Hebrews 6.

By "saved" I mean reconciled to God by faith in Christ's sacrifice with the promise of eternal life in His presence.

Hebrews 6 describes two groups of people: people who were "enlightened" in v. 4 and people who have "salvation" in v. 9. Commentaries indicate that those who were "enlightened" never had faith. The verses indicate that they came close enough to "taste" it but then fell away.

To answer the question, I believe he either never truly had faith so he was never truly saved, or, although he may say he no longer believes and lives in rebellion, he still has a faith that is struggling and he still has salvation. I don't believe he had a saving faith and then lost it because of what Jesus said: "My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me: and I give unto them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand." John 10:27-28

Excellent answer....thank you.

 

[eldermike]

It sounds then that you're saying a Christian who abandons his faith and returns to a life of sin was never saved in the first place?

That could be, but they may also be saved.

 

[homewardbound]

That could be, but they may also be saved.

hmmmm....I'm going to noodle on that one a bit.

 

[MeekOne]

The seed is that which is the subject, not the soil. In Jesus' own words:

Luke 8:5-8
A sower went out to sow his seed: and as he sowed, some fell by the way side; and it was trodden down, and the fowls of the air devoured it. And some fell upon a rock; and as soon as it was sprung up, it withered away, because it lacked moisture. And some fell among thorns; and the thorns sprang up with it, and choked it. And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold. And when he had said these things, he cried, He that hath ears to hear, let him hear.

The seeds are like people. Some will fall by the wayside and get trodden down, some will be eaten by fowl, some fall upon rock and lack moisture in their spiritual walk, some fall upon thorns and get choked (thorns are like some so-called "Christians" who distort the word and choke people with the law - such as you must come to church so many times or you are not good enough. BTW, I try to never miss a Sunday-not because someone will say something or think something-my church is too big for that, but because I love to go to worship and hear the Word of God)

See above scripture again, but other seeds (people) fall on good ground...the true foundation of Christ, and help develop spiritual growth in others and bare fruit an hundredfold. This is what Jesus meant. Some unfortunately do not get saved in the first place. Jesus cried about this, or maybe He was crying because He was relieved to know that there will be many who will be truly saved. But, it is the seed that matters, and what happens to it, where it goes and how it grows. If it is truly spiritually grounded in the Lord, it will grow. The condition of a person's heart when they first accept Christ is the key. There are approximately 18 inches from one's head to one's heart, but this can be 18 inches from Heaven. If they have truly accepted Him with all of their heart, they are truly saved, and will not so easily lose their salvation as some put it. Once someone has been truly saved in the Lord's good soil, they stay planted.

 

[eldermike]

hmmmm....I'm going to noodle on that one a bit.

The basic questions: If a person is born again into a life that has no death, how can they die?
If eternal life is the gift to those that believe in Jesus as the lamb of God, as Lord, as God, then how can that life end?
If God sent His Son to die for my sins, did it work or did He fail, is my sin still an issue sill separating me from God?

 

[Andyman_1970]

My question would be what sins are the ones that cause us to loose our salvation, and where is that list?

 

[eldermike]

My question would be what sins are the ones that cause us to loose our salvation, and where is that list?

So right!

The reason we don't have a list is simple. A sinner would have to keep it and there goes the system, down the drain, right from the start.

 

[brotherjim]

While I only had time to briefly skim the threads we were referred to in the initial post, I wasn't able to ascertain exactly what is in question.

Are we discussing salvation as in when someone is pulled from a car wreck or healed of cancer, or are we talking about the initial salvation when someone receives the New Birth, or are we referring to "ETERNAL salvation," that which Jesus is the Author of, "to all those who obey Him," those who have allowed God to perfect them in His Love (1 Jn. 2:3-5; Luke 10:25-28; 1 Jn. 4:16-18; Rev. 22:14; etc.)???

 

[GODSCHILD333]

Do you believe this??? If so, I could really use some assistance in getting out the truth of the gospel here:

http://www.christianforums.com/t1240933-do-you-believe-that-once-you-are-saved-you-are-always-saved-2.html&page=91#post17636647

As a Sister in Christ, and a defender of the truth, I would certainly appreciate any help any one of you could give. Please help the believers understand the TRUE message of the gospel. Thank you so very much for any help you can give.

to be honest with you i dont believe once saved always saved, there is more than just believing in GOD, and accepting christ in your life. you have to truly live by the gospel,serve him and live your life through him, jesus never asked us to be perfect, but to strive for perfection, so in this i believe you have to walk the walk with christ,that way you never have to worry or question your salvation. if we could be saved and live any way we felt was in our best interest, than the gospel of christ wouldn't stand for anything.Remeber always go back to your word (bible)and it
says that when we are born again we are a new creature in christ.

 

[Andyman_1970]

to be honest with you i dont believe once saved always saved, there is more than just believing in GOD, and accepting christ in your life. you have to truly live by the gospel,serve him and live your life through him, jesus never asked us to be perfect, but to strive for perfection, so in this i believe you have to walk the walk with christ,that way you never have to worry or question your salvation. if we could be saved and live any way we felt was in our best interest, than the gospel of christ wouldn't stand for anything.Remeber always go back to your word (bible)and it
says that when we are born again we are a new creature in christ.

Ok so as a follower of Jesus what sins, if I commit them, cause me to loose my salvation?