Once Saved, Always Saved

[Zaac]

I am frequently asked about this doctrine. In fact, I was asked about it again yesterday.

No it is not an issue over which a person's salvation is going to be won or lost so don't ya'll get nasty.

But my question is to the people who think that you can lose your salvation. Now I don't need any explanations about you being able to turn from God.

Let's deal with the following:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)


Now in accordance with what is said in Ephesians, can somebody please tell me why, if, as God's Word says, salvation is the GIFT OF GOD and NOT of works (meaning there is NOTHING you can do to earn it), why do people insist that they, of themselves and by some work of their own, can do something to LOSE what they had NO PART in giving to themselves?

 

[rnmomof7]

This thread has been moved from P&M to the Christian side of the forum for a doctrinal discussion

 

[FaithAlone]

Can a Believer Lose His/Her Salvation?​

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John 3:18– We are no longer judged when we accept Christ
John 5:24– We have passed out of death into life
John 6:37-40– Jesus will not cast us out. He will lose nothing. That means us.
John 10:27-30– No one (even you) can snatch you out of God’s hand
Acts13:39– Once we have accepted Christ we are free from all things
Romans 8:1– There is no condemnation for those in Christ Jesus
Romans 8:35-39– Nothing can separate us from the love of God
Romans 11:29– God’s calling can’t be taken back
1 Corinthians 3: 9-23– vs 15-If we turn from God after we have been saved we will be saved but with very few rewards. Vs 23– We belong to Christ.
2 Corinthians 1:22– We are sealed by the Holy Spirit
2 Corinthians 5:17– We are a new creature in Christ. The old things have passed away Ephesians 1:13-sealed by the Spirit
Ephesians 4:30– sealed by the Holy Spirit for the day of redemption
Philippians 1:6– God will perfect what He started in you
Colossians 2:13&14– Christ already paid for ALL of our sins. When we accept Him as our Savior His blood covers ALL of our sins
Colossians 3:3&4– We are hidden with Christ in God. Christ is our life and will reveal us in Heaven.
Hebrews 7:25-27– He covered ALL sins when He offered Himself up on the cross Hebrews 10:10, 10:14
1 Peter 1:4&5
Jude 1:1– We are kept for Christ

So why do good if we are already saved?
​

John 14:15– If you love Me, you will keep My commandments.
Romans 6– Should we continue in sin so that grace may abound? May it never be! 1 Corinthians 6:12 & 10:23- ALL things are lawful for us but not all are profitable.
1 Peter 2:16– Do not use your freedom as a covering for evil
If we are truly Christians then Christ’s love should be all the fuel we need to do good.

 

[Lynn73]

Now in accordance with what is said in Ephesians, can somebody please tell me why, if, as God's Word says, salvation is the GIFT OF GOD and NOT of works (meaning there is NOTHING you can do to earn it), why do people insist that they, of themselves and by some work of their own, can do something to LOSE what they had NO PART in giving to themselves?

I don't know why they insist on it. It's not logical, nor is it biblical so ya got me. Maybe some people desire to have some credit for helping get themselves into heaven, who knows? If you don't receive it through works, then it can't be lost through lack of works. A gift is a gift and God is no indian giver.

 

[DrBubbaLove]

Nor is God a liar

"He who endures to the end will be saved" Matt. 24:13

Nor does He agree that nothing is expected us;

“Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world: For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in: Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me. Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed [thee]? or thirsty, and gave [thee] drink? When saw we thee a stranger, and took [thee] in? or naked, and clothed [thee]? Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee? And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done [it] unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done [it] unto me.” Matt 25:31-40

Nor does God change –Just

If one believes Adam and Eve were created perfect and remained so before the fall, they are then also at that point “saved’ not on their own merits – ie by God’s Grace. They then certainly lost that status not only for themselves but for all of us (mankind). How could God treat them (and all of mankind) that way for one transgression, yet allow us now to sin without eternal consequence (if not resolved with God before we die – again “endures o the end.”)

Nor does Paul seem to think one cannot lose all, speaking here to Christians:


“See then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off" Rom 11:22

 

[levi501]

I believe in one of the gospels(mathew) it states you must bare the fruit of someone who accepts christ, suggesting that believing isn't enough rather you must act like someone who is truly following him. To whatever degree this is necessary is for the inidividual to discern, but it does suggest some outward display or works is needed.

 

[vanshan]

I don't know why they insist on it. It's not logical, nor is it biblical so ya got me. Maybe some people desire to have some credit for helping get themselves into heaven, who knows? If you don't receive it through works, then it can't be lost through lack of works. A gift is a gift and God is no indian giver.

It's not a question of works either earning or causing you to lose your salvation. We cannot do enough to justify ourselves (i.e. save us from death, which is a consequence of sin), nor can our sins be too numerous for God to forgive.

What we must work to preserve and offer to God is the purity of our hearts. This takes work--without effort it's easy to fall prey to sinful desires or the wiles of the enemy. If someone's heart is darkened by continued sin, are they prepared to be received by our Bridegroom upon death? What does the parable of the 10 virgins say about those who were not prepared? What became of them? They were cast into the utter darkness of night because they were not prepared. We must prepare ourseleves for the life to come with good works--not for salvation, which is a gift, but to make our lives a sweet fragrance to God. We know, according to scripture, that not everyone who calls on Christ will be saved.

What yokes us to Christ? The Church has always taught we are translated into Christ through baptism, by God's design. It's the universal Orthodox Church which has always been Christ's body on earth and the instrument of God's mercy and work amongst His people, preparing us for the life to come.

Basil

 

[billwald]

Problem is moot because there is no objective test for salvation.

 

[Lynn73]

Nor is God a liar

"He who endures to the end will be saved" Matt. 24:13

And what if that Scripture is talking about something else besides salvation? Jesus is talking about the future tribulation period in that chapter. We;'re not even supposed to be here, if you believe in pre-trib that is. And besides, when the question was asked "what must I do to be saved" the answer came back "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." Where's the qualifier? Shouldn't the answer have been "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and endure to the end and thou shalt be saved?" That's too important to leave out. No, I think that verse may be refering to some other type of being saved, other than eternal and spiritual.

 

[Melethiel]

I'm curious what the OSAS people make of these verses:

[bible]Hebrews 6:4-6[/bible]

Or even the rest of Hebrews...

 

[Thursday]

Now in accordance with what is said in Ephesians, can somebody please tell me why, if, as God's Word says, salvation is the GIFT OF GOD and NOT of works (meaning there is NOTHING you can do to earn it), why do people insist that they, of themselves and by some work of their own, can do something to LOSE what they had NO PART in giving to themselves?

One can lose faith, they can completely reject faith in Jesus. And then they lose grace, and losing grace, they lose salvation.
That salvation is a free gift from God does not automatically mean that we are incapable of rejecting it.

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

And what if that Scripture is talking about something else besides salvation? .

Hi Lynn. I think if you read the passage you will find that it is clearly speaking of salvation.

 

[sojourner]

Lynn,

"believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved." Where's the qualifier? Shouldn't the answer have been "believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and endure to the end and thou shalt be saved?" That's too important to leave out. No, I think that verse may be refering to some other type of being saved, other than eternal and spiritual.

It is about eternal salvation. However, when one lifts a single verse out and attaches a meaning to it straight up it may seem that is what it might mean. However, regarding believes, belief, believing, it is a continual action on the part of the believer. That is why he is called a believer. When he rejects or changes his mind, or permits the flesh to rule his life he becomes an unbeliever. He no longer is in Christ.
Most of the NT speaks regarding those other verses that should be added to your phrase 'Believe on the Lord Jesus Crhist". Salavation is conditional on what man decides. Man does not work alone, in fact, most if not all the work is done by Christ or the Holy Spirit, but man has the responsibility to cooperate, to align his will with that of Gods will for his life. The is precisely why all the exhortations given in the NT.

The whole question of is it by works or faith. I think most of the errors in thinking on this score is that the underlying presupposition for most Protestants is the so-called, forensic or satisfaction theory of salvation. The other big error is not making salvation relevant to the fall. For the most part they are not linked theologically in most of the thinking or interpretation of the whole of salvation.

 

[bliz]

No it is not an issue over which a person's salvation is going to be won or lost so don't ya'll get nasty.

But, it really is, isn't it?

If I present the case that salvation cannot be lost and someone else presents the case that it can be lost, we really are arguing about a salvation issue.

 

[hoser]

I am frequently asked about this doctrine. In fact, I was asked about it again yesterday.

No it is not an issue over which a person's salvation is going to be won or lost so don't ya'll get nasty.

But my question is to the people who think that you can lose your salvation. Now I don't need any explanations about you being able to turn from God.

Let's deal with the following:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)


Now in accordance with what is said in Ephesians, can somebody please tell me why, if, as God's Word says, salvation is the GIFT OF GOD and NOT of works (meaning there is NOTHING you can do to earn it), why do people insist that they, of themselves and by some work of their own, can do something to LOSE what they had NO PART in giving to themselves?

You are starting out on the wrong premise. For starters, yes, salvation IS the gift of God, and no one says that salvation is by works. Please don't make up Catholic doctrine. Salvation is by God's grace and our response to that is FAITH and works. By the way you worded things, we don't even need faith because God already gave us the gift of salvation.

I love it when people refer to Ephesians 2:8-9 as their "proof". Isnt' it funny that they stop reading there. Well here is what verse 10 says...

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

I'll have to tell this to people until I am blue in the face I know, but Paul is NOT referring to "good works" in verses 8-9. He is referring to "works of the law" in other words the Old Testament Law, in other words the "works of the Torah", in other words "Mosaic Law". He is NOT in these verses just like he IS NOT in many places talking about "good works"!!!!! Paul dispells "works of the Torah" in verses 8-9 and then turns toward "good works" in verse 10. When all three verses are taken together what Paul is saying in simple terms is We are created in Christ Jesus to perform good works and NOT works of the Torah because your salvation is through Jesus and not the Old Covenant Law.

This has been pointed out time and time again. There is NO WHERE in scripture that says we are saved by "faith alone" except in James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. Faith alone was made up by Martin Luther and was never believed in the first 1500 years.

As for the rest of your post, I will not debate the unbiblical view of "OSAS" at this point. I want to ask you though, why do many many protestants NOT believe in "Once Saved Always Saved"?

 

[Singinman]

The last poster cited the key scripture. The writers of Hebrews and 2 Peter (2:20-22) at least worried enough about the possibility of Apostacy to warn us of the consequences.

Previous posters are correct that salvation is a gift of God by His grace, His unmerited love for us. We did nothing to earn this grace and it is free. However, as humans with freedom to choose or deny, there is one thing we must do to be saved. We must accept His grace. We must respond to his invitation. If we do not we are not saved.

I believe the scriptures cited above, indicate that we who are saved also have the right and the possibility to reject the grace given and once accepted. If we do this there is no turning back. God is through with us and will spew us out at the time of judgement. Jesus is not rejecting us. This is not a weakness in God's charater or a limit to his power. If we are faithful to him, he will carry us through to final victory, If we reject Him after we have known him, he regretfully respects our choice.

Of course, if you believe in predestination all of this is moot, but there are scripture passages which refute predestination too. But that is another issue.

 

[Normann]

I am frequently asked about this doctrine. In fact, I was asked about it again yesterday.

No it is not an issue over which a person's salvation is going to be won or lost so don't ya'll get nasty.

But my question is to the people who think that you can lose your salvation. Now I don't need any explanations about you being able to turn from God.

Let's deal with the following:

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. (Ephesians 2:8-9)


Now in accordance with what is said in Ephesians, can somebody please tell me why, if, as God's Word says, salvation is the GIFT OF GOD and NOT of works (meaning there is NOTHING you can do to earn it), why do people insist that they, of themselves and by some work of their own, can do something to LOSE what they had NO PART in giving to themselves?

Let's not deal with one scripture only because the Bible tells us man shall live by every word (Matt. 4:4) and that all scripture is profitable (2 Tim 3:16). and what about faith with out works is dead????

Are you saying we can believe we are saved and commit adultry every day and go to heaven? What do we do with the many referances that deal with backsliding and going back on God. Where in scripture does it say once we are saved we can never be lost again?

Scripture teaches plainly that we can be vomited out.

IN THE MASTER'S SERVICE,
Normann

 

[IgnatiusOfAntioch]

You are starting out on the wrong premise. For starters, yes, salvation IS the gift of God, and no one says that salvation is by works. Please don't make up Catholic doctrine. Salvation is by God's grace and our response to that is FAITH and works. By the way you worded things, we don't even need faith because God already gave us the gift of salvation.

I love it when people refer to Ephesians 2:8-9 as their "proof". Isnt' it funny that they stop reading there. Well here is what verse 10 says...

Ephesians 2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

I'll have to tell this to people until I am blue in the face I know, but Paul is NOT referring to "good works" in verses 8-9. He is referring to "works of the law" in other words the Old Testament Law, in other words the "works of the Torah", in other words "Mosaic Law". He is NOT in these verses just like he IS NOT in many places talking about "good works"!!!!! Paul dispells "works of the Torah" in verses 8-9 and then turns toward "good works" in verse 10. When all three verses are taken together what Paul is saying in simple terms is We are created in Christ Jesus to perform good works and NOT works of the Torah because your salvation is through Jesus and not the Old Covenant Law.

This has been pointed out time and time again. There is NO WHERE in scripture that says we are saved by "faith alone" except in James 2:24 You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone. Faith alone was made up by Martin Luther and was never believed in the first 1500 years.

As for the rest of your post, I will not debate the unbiblical view of "OSAS" at this point. I want to ask you though, why do many many protestants NOT believe in "Once Saved Always Saved"?

Excellent exposition, and presented in all christian charity.

 

[PaladinValer]

Romans 1 shows Christians apostating themselves back into Paganism. Looks like it is quite clear that OSAS is incorrect.

 

[nwmsugrad]

Lynn is absolutely correct the salvation discussed in Matt 24:13 is not referring to justification. The same is true of the word save used in James 2:14. Our problem is that our post reformation background predisposes us to connect the word save with eternal salvation.

Challenge: pull out a concordance and do a word study of the word save in the Old Testament. It is clear that in the vast majority of these cases salvation, when discussed refers to something else other that deliverance from hell.

We always seem quick to jump to the conclusion that the word save must be in regards to eternal salvation unless it is so obviously not the case that it cant be missed.

1 Timothy 2:15 (NKJV)
15 Nevertheless she will be saved in childbearing if they continue in faith, love, and holiness, with self-control.

By the way Hebrews 6:6 is not talking about salvation from hell either.