Once Saved Always Saved - Why is it so hard?

[Bible Highlighter]

I will not address everything you've written as I need to meditate on them. I will address some off the bat however. The first one is above:

There are several verses that seem to imply doing them will send you to hell. But I notice that at the end of these verses is almost always tacked on something like "but the righteous into life eternal" - OSAS believers believe that these verses mean "by the way, you think you're righteous, you're not because all these stuff that most people do are sinful too. But accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior will make you righteous in spite of those things"
Another thing I've noticed is that there seems to be a difference in the verses that say what you must do to be saved, and the verses that indicate that you go to hell for certain sins. The verses that say how you must be saved clearly indicate that salvation comes by faith alone. The verses that indicate you to go to hell seem to say that certain works send you to hell.

The two seem to be contradictory in message. OSAS believers address this contradiction by interpreting that the verses that indicate you go to hell are talking about non-Christians and are to emphasize that everyone is condemned because everyone is a sinner which is why you cannot depend on your own righteousness (because the standard for holiness is impossible for man). CS believers address the contradiction by interpreting the verses about hell talk about post-acceptance Christian living (aka 'sanctification').

No. I am sorry, my friend. But you are not reading the full context in Matthew 25, and you are making stuff up that you want to see. Christ divides the sheep from the goats. Jesus puts the sheep on His RIGHT HAND and the goats He puts on His LEFT.

"And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left." (Matthew 25:33).

What does Jesus (i.e. the King) say to those on His RIGHT HAND?

"Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:" (Matthew 25:34).

These are believers because Jesus says they are:

(a) Sheep (of which Jesus refers to believers as Sheep in other verses).
(b) Ye are blessed by my Father.
(c) Inherit the Kingdom prepared for you since the foundation of the world.

How does Jesus describe these believers or sheep who inherit the Kingdom and who are blessed by the Father?

35 "For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me." (Matthew 25:36).

What is interesting is that the first group who helped the poor is said to be "righteous" (Matthew 25:37) and the second group who did not help the poor is simply called "they" (Matthew 25:44).

The matter is concluded in verse 46 when Jesus says,

"And these [i.e. "they" or the second group who did not help the poor] shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous [i.e. the first group who helped the poor] into life eternal." (Matthew 25:46).

It's why Jesus divided them in the first place. He separated them so as to cast one group into everlasting punishment and another group so as to go into life eternal.

Note: Brackets in blue are my commentaries to the text.

I don't see that this is clearly defined. You are making a very strong conclusion about something that I see as an assumption. The "God Directed Works" in the NT don't read much differently from the "Man Directed Works" (and I don't know how you can conclusively make this distinction since both come from the Bible), except that "God directed works" are much much harder to follow because Jesus said that the mere thought of sin condemns you. The "God directed works" as you have labelled them are much much harder to follow than the OT because thought-crime condemns us all.

First, thought crime also existed in the OT, as well.
To desire another man's wife (adultery) is coveting according to the 10 Commandments.

"You shall not covet your neighbor's house; you shall not covet your neighbor's wife, or his male servant, or his female servant, or his ox, or his donkey, or anything that is your neighbor's.” (Exodus 20:17).

Second, I already provided to you a good list of verses for you to check out before that shows how it is God who ultimately does the good work within a believer's life. Click on the spoiler button to check them out again.

Spoiler

For who ultimately does the "good work" in a believer's life?

Is it God?
Or is it the believer?

Well, Scripture tells us that God (Christ) is the One who ultimately does the work within a believer.

Philippians 1:6
Philippians 1:11
Philippians 2:13
Philippians 4:13
1 Corinthians 15:10
Hebrews 12:1-2
Hebrews 13:21
Isaiah 26:12
1 John 4:12
Galatians 5:22-24 (cf. Matthew 7:16-18, Matthew 19:17)
John 15:5
Ezekiel 36:26-27

For that is why the 24 elders cast their crowns down before Jesus (Revelation 4:10). For the crowns they received for their good work was all the result of Christ working in them.

Yeah, but doesn't a believer do the work, too? Now, yes, it is true; A believer is created unto Christ Jesus for good works (Ephesians 2:10); And a believer is indeed held accountable by their "good works" here upon this Earth at a Judgment. But we must also realize that true believers are not ultimately doing these "good works" alone or of their own power, though. For in 1 Corinthians 15:10 Paul said that he labored more than all of his brethren, yet he said it was not him that labored but it was the grace of God that was within him. So true believer's are just choosing to allow God's "good work" to flow within them or not.

When the Bible says we are not saved of works it is talking about the works of the Law of Moses or man directed works. This evident if you were to look at verses 11-16 (Ephesians 2:11-16) and it is evident if you were to look at Romans and Galatians where the variation of the word "circumcision" appears several times (Which was mentioned so as to address the heresy of trying to be circumcised so as to be saved). I believe the saint today is to obey the Commands only in the New Testament (or New Covenant).

Anyways, the Scriptures say the Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12). So when Paul says, "you are not under the law, but under grace.", he was talking about the Old Law and not the New Law. For if one broke the Old Law, they could be put to death instead of going to Christ and seeking forgiveness by confessing their sins to Him under the New Covenant so as to be forgiven of sin. "For if we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness" (1 John 1:9).

For God is not against His believers obeying Him; And God does not consider those who obey Him out of fear in being punished by the Lord in the after-life to be a wrong thing, either. "For the fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom" (Proverbs 9:10). "Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding." (Job 28:28, - Cross reference with James 3:13). "Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling" (Philippians 2:12). Also, the body of believers throughout all Judaea and Galilee and Samaria walked in fear of the Lord (Acts 9:31).

But in Eternal Security, there is no reason to fear God.
One can have their cake and eat it, too.
For example: In the most extreme version of Eternal Security, they could say something like,

"Keep on sinning boy, there is no need to worry, you have no control over your body of sin. Therefore, God is not going to blame you. You also got your guaranteed ticket to enter through the gates of Heaven because of your belief on Jesus, too. In fact, nobody's perfect, everybody sins, so just keep on doing the sins that you really like to do. God has forgiven you past, present, and future."​

Now, some here may object to the Eternal Security statement above (As they most definitely should); And that is a good thing. In fact, there are Eternal Security Proponents who actually do think they love God and that they are truly serving Him and that they will sin less and less in this life as a part of the Sanctification Process. But will they ever stop sinning in this life? Never. That's the problem. For you can still have your sin and also serve God with even this version of Eternal Security (Which is still wrong). For God cannot agree with saving someone who wants to continue to remain in their evil because that would mean He would have to agree with their willful choice to do evil at some point in the future (Which is not possible because God is good and God is Holy and righteous and there is no darkness within Him).

Sin is merely transgression of the Law (1 John 3:4). So that means, there is some kind of Law of God in existence that believers can still break today.

In fact, today, under the New Covenant, there is:

(a) The Law of Christ (Galatians 6:2).
(b) The Law of Liberty (James 1:25) (James 2:12).
(c) The Royal Law (James 2:8).
(d) The Law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:2).​

None of these laws were a part of the Old Covenant.
They are laws that are a part of the New Covenant (i.e. the New Testament).

I mean, do you not know that one of the Commandments in the New Testament tells us this?

"Believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ,." (1 John 3:23).

Here is the entire verse:

"And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment" (1 John 3:23).​

Are you not justified by keeping the Law or Commandment that says,
"Believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ,"?

Are you not justified by keeping this Law or Commandment?
In other words, this means you are under some kind of Law.
Paul was not talking about all Law whatsoever (or the Commands given to us in the New Testament). For Jesus says, "Why do you call me Lord, Lord, and do not the things that I say?" (Luke 6:46). To put it to you another way, God is not lawless; And neither are God's people lawless, either.

OSAS believers believe that the point Jesus was making about thought-crime is that NO MAN can achieve God's standard for holiness, which is why we need Jesus. It was not to imply that after salvation, we are to feel condemned every second of the day because our thoughts betray us.

Well, you are going off your own life experience. But believers walk by faith and not by sight. You cannot go off of what you see. For again, your struggle is not normal for seasoned believers. For your situation is simply not true for many believers who walk uprightly in Jesus Christ thru out history and today. There are many days where I have not struggled with lustful or hateful thoughts. However, it is not something that just comes to you. You have to apply the methods within God's Word and ask for Jesus's help to overcome sin in your life. There are many verses that talk about such a thing. Such verses would not exist if a Sin and Still Be Saved Gospel was true. On the contrary, the Scriptures teach against Easy Believism (See James 2:17-24).

I am struggling to understand why God will supposedly take away the burden of the Mosaic law only to give us "God directed works" that are substantially harder to follow and are therefore a greater burden.

Then you obviously have never looked at all 613 Commands in the Old Testament and carefully considered in doing them. Nobody can be honest with themselves and say that following all those rituals are easier to accomplish than the Commands in the New Testament. The New Testament Commands are based on God's Eternal Moral Law of Love.

Outward works are much much easier to achieve than being perfect in thought. You have implied before that you think that thought-perfection is in fact easier to follow than OT laws, but I assure you 99% of people find it much more difficult.

No. Read the 613 Commands and then get back to me.
Also, a person can easily overcome sinful thoughts by the power of Jesus and by employing the methods of overcoming sin within His Word.
Seeing you never tried to do so seriously because you are on the fence (with a strong leaning into the OSAS camp), I am afraid this is not possible for you. You have to first establish the goodness (or the morality) of God within His Word.

This is another difference in definition. OSAS believers believe the "Jesus is doing the good work through you" is meaning that (for example), you can preach till you're blue in the face, but it is Jesus who will convict men's hearts about their need for salvation - it is the work of the Holy Spirit that will convict men. OSAS believers do not believe that "Jesus is doing the good work through you" means that when you attempt to stop sinning, it is actually Jesus that is doing it on your behalf.

Then why pray to Jesus so as not to be led into temptation?
(See Matthew 26:41).

Why do the Scriptures say the following?

"Now to him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to present you faultless before the presence of his glory in great joy," (Jude 1:24 NHEB).

"For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil." (1 John 3:8).

"And the Lord shall deliver me from every evil work, and will preserve me unto his heavenly kingdom: to whom be glory for ever and ever. Amen." (2 Timothy 4:18).

I never said "fear of hell" is the sole purpose of the CS believer for obedience. I said "to please God" is the sole purpose for the OSAS believer to obey God, and that the CS believer is at least in part motivated by a "fear of hell". If you look at what I wrote, I clearly stated "at least in part".

To put the greatest punishment as a motivator for not sinning necessitates that at the back of a Christian's mind, his motivation for obeying God can never be solely to please God. That perfection that I believed God created: that he created a means for us to live in relation with him based purely on pleasing him without any fear of hell will be robbed from me if I accept CS theology. A fact is a fact. I am not saying that CS is false, I am just saying it how it is. Accepting CS theology means I have to accept that my motivations for obedience to God is no longer purely because I want to please him. It will turn from a Godly marriage where divorce is not an option, to a secular marriage where disobedience to a spouse results in total abandonment.

No. You got things backwards. The OSAS belief is that not a selfless type belief because the OSAS Proponent's motivations are not set out to please God for it makes an allowance for serving oneself or sin (of which God cannot agree with because He is holy and righteous); For the OSAS belief says you can sin and still be saved. This is selfish and not selfless. While fear can be a motivator, it is not always the case for the Conditonal Salvationist because perfect love casts out fear. Also, Eternal Torment is not Biblical. So the fear of God torturing a person in flames for all eternity is not true.



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[stuart lawrence]

The trouble with plucking one verse out of scripture without reading the whole section leads to errant belief.

For when there is a change of the priesthood there must also be a change of the law

Verse 18

The former regulation is set aside because it was weak( for the law made nothing perfect) and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God.

And what, or who is This better hope through whom we come close to God?

Therefore, he (Christ) is able to save completely those who come to God through him , because he always lives to intercede for them.

It is no longer a written law of justification, but a law of justification through faith in Christ.

No more priests, from the tribe of Levi, but the lion of Judah

 

[stuart lawrence]

Unlike the other high priests he does not need to offer sacrifices day after day, first for his own sins and then for the sins of the people. He sacrificed for their sins ONCE FOR ALL when he offered himself
Heb7:27

You have to read the whole chapter
And if you understand the above verse, you understand no more law of righteousness

 

[stuart lawrence]

There is not one verse of scripture in the entire NT that states Christ annulled a law if righteousness, solely concerning Torah.

 

[stuart lawrence]

There is scripture in the NT that clearly explains you die to a law of righteousness concerning the whole law

If that is hard to understand pray for enlightenment, rather than dismiss what us clearly laid out in scripture, or try and explain it away

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The Law of Moses required that you offer animal sacrifices to temporarily cover sin. For the Scriptures say that the blood of goats and bulls never took away sin (Hebrews 10:4). Meaning, the OT saint had to keep revisiting the same PAST sins year after year. This is not the case with Jesus Christ. When a person comes to Jesus and believes in Him as their sacrifice and believes He was risen 3 days later on their behalf, they can forever be cleansed of their past sins. They do not need to offer animal sacrifices so as to revisit the same past sins. But if they sin again, John says that go to Jesus Christ who is their advocate (1 John 2:1). For if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). This is in context to 1 John 1:7 that says, if we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. For Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.


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[stuart lawrence]

The Law of Moses required that you offer animal sacrifices to temporarily cover sin. For the Scriptures say that the blood of goats and bulls never took away sin (Hebrews 10:4). Meaning, the OT saint had to keep revisiting the same PAST sins year after year. This is not the case with Jesus Christ. When a person comes to Jesus and believes in Him as their sacrifice and believes He was risen 3 days later on their behalf, they can forever be cleansed of their past sins. They do not need to offer animal sacrifices so as to revisit the same past sins. But if they sin again, John says that go to Jesus Christ who is their advocate (1 John 2:1). For if we confess our sins he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness (1 John 1:9). This is in context to 1 John 1:7 that says, if we walk in the light as he is in the light, the blood of Jesus Christ cleanses us from all sin. For Proverbs 28:13 says he that confesses and forsakes sin shall have mercy.


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Animal sacrifices were made for people already in covenant with God. They were not made so you could enter the covenant.

Christ paid for our sins once, for the sins of those in covenant, and for those to enter it.

He replaced the system of animal sacrifices, and he only had to die once to do it

 

[stuart lawrence]

But when this priest had offered FOR ALL TIME one sacrifice for sins he sat down at the right hand of God.
Heb10:12

 

[stuart lawrence]

Nor did he offer himself again and again the way the high priest enters the most holy place every year with blood that is not his own.
Then Christ would have had to suffer many times since the creation of the world.
But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself
Heb9:25&26

Too good for the human mind to grasp

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Romans 7:4 says,
"Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

The word "law" here is in reference to the Old Covenant Law.

For Paul says,
"Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,)'"
(Romans 7:1).

This cannot be the New Covenant Laws or Commands because New Testament Scripture was still being written during this time.

Paul also says,
"that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

So the point of topic here is not "Easy believism" (That leads to Antinomianism) but it is about SERVING for the word "serve" is the contrast between the two methods of differences between the Old and the New Covenants mentioned within this verse. In fact, Romans 7:4 says we should bring forth fruit unto God as the result of being dead to the law by Jesus Christ. This is good fruit and not bad fruit or sin. Good fruit will be the evidence that you are truly abiding in Christ or not.

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:3-4).

But how can Paul be talking about the Old Law in Romans 7 if he mentioned a law like "do not covet"? Is not such a command a part of the New Testament, too? Yes, it is. Paul was mentioning an Eternal Moral Law (the Law of Love - See Romans 13:8-10) within the Old Law. Paul was mentioning how thru Jesus Christ and by walking after the Spirit (Which is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus - Romans 8:1-2), we can then be free from the Law of Sin and Death. For there are TWO laws mentioned in Romans 8:2. One is a New Covenant Law and the other is an Old Covenant Law. For the One Law sets us free from the other Law. By following this New Law, we can then fulfill the righteous aspect or part of the Old Law (like the Law of Love - See Romans 13:8-10) (Romans 8:4). For there is no Condemnation who walk not after the flesh but who walk after the Spirit in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). This is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. By this Law, one will abide in Christ and Jesus will help a person to overcome their struggle with keeping the Eternal Moral Law like coveting, etc. (That originally came from the Old Law).

As for offending in one point the Law whereby one is indebted to do the WHOLE Law:

Well, in Galatians 5:3 this is context to circumcision. For it says if you seek to be circumcised you are indebted to do the whole law. Seeing circumcison is clearly Old Covenant Law and not New Covenant Law, we have to conclude that Galatians 5:3 is talking about OT Law and not all Law whatsoever.

As for James 2:10: This is talking about the Royal Law or the Perfect Law of Liberty (Which is to love your neighbor as yourself), which is New Testament Command given to us by Jesus Christ. James point in James chapter 2 is not in disobeying these laws but it is in obeying them because he concludes at the end of James 2 that we are to show our faith by our works. For faith without works is dead being alone. James point in regards to the keeping of these laws is: "There will be no mercy for those who have not shown mercy to others. But if you have been merciful, God will be merciful when he judges you" (James 2:13). This is the same thing Jesus said. For Jesus said if you do not forgive, then the Father will not forgive you (Matthew 6:15).


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[stuart lawrence]

Romans 7:4 says,
"Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God."

The word "law" here is in reference to the Old Covenant Law.

For Paul says,
"Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,)'"
(Romans 7:1).

This cannot be the New Covenant Laws or Commands because New Testament Scripture was still being written during this time.

Paul also says,
"that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter." (Romans 7:6).

So the point of topic here is not "Easy believism" (That leads to Antinomianism) but it is about SERVING for the word "serve" is the contrast between the two methods of differences between the Old and the New Covenants. In fact, Romans 7:4 says we should bring forth fruit unto God as the result of being dead to the law by Jesus Christ. This is good fruit and not bad fruit or sin. Good fruit will be the evidence that you are truly abiding in Christ or not.

3 "And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
4 He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him." (1 John 2:3-4).

But how can Paul be talking about the Old Law in Romans 7 if he mentioned a law like "do not covet"? Is not such a command a part of the New Testament, too? Yes, it is. Paul was mentioning an Eternal Moral Law (the Law of Love - See Romans 13:8-10) within the Old Law. Paul was mentioning how thru Jesus Christ and by walking after the Spirit (Which is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus - Romans 8:1-2), we can then be free from the Law of Sin and Death. For there are TWO laws mentioned in Romans 8:2. One is a New Covenant Law and the other is an Old Covenant Law. For the One Law sets us free from the other Law. By following this New Law, we can then fulfill the righteous aspect or part of the Old Law (like the Law of Love - See Romans 13:8-10) (Romans 8:4). For there is no Condemnation who walk not after the flesh but who walk after the Spirit in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:1). This is the Law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus. By this Law, one will abide in Christ and Jesus will help a person to overcome their struggle with keeping the Eternal Moral Law like coveting, etc. (That originally came from the Old Law).

As for offending in one point the Law whereby one is indebted to do the WHOLE Law:

Well, in Galatians 5:3 this is context to circumcision. For it says if you seek to be circumcised you are indebted to do the whole law. Seeing circumcison is clearly Old Covenant Law and not New Covenant Law, we have to conclude that Galatians 5:3 is talking about OT Law and not all Law whatsoever.

As for James 2:10: This is talking about the Royal Law or the Perfect Law of Liberty (Which is to love your neighbor as yourself), which is New Testament Command given to us by Jesus Christ. James point in James chapter 2 is not in disobeying these laws but it is in obeying them because he concludes at the end of James 2 that we are to show our faith by our works. For faith without works is dead being alone. James point in regards to the keeping of these laws is: "There will be no mercy for those who have not shown mercy to others. But if you have been merciful, God will be merciful when he judges you" (James 2:13). This is the same thing Jesus said. For Jesus said if you do not forgive, then the Father will not forgive you (Matthew 6:15).


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Romans 7:4-6 does not solely refer to non applicable OC law. Though you will never accept it, others should be reminded you are wrong, and preaching something that us not written in scripture.
In rom 7:7-11 Paul carries on from the preceding three verses and gives a personal example of why he had to die to the law. The example he gave was:
Thou shalt not covet.
That commandment is NOT non applicable OT law.
That commandment has been transferred from an external law written on tablets of stone to an internal law written on tablets of human hearts(2cor3:3)

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As for Hebrews 10:14 NLT, it says,
"For by that one offering he forever made perfect those who are being made holy."

This is context to those who are being made holy. If one is not being holy, then Christ's one time sacrifice will not be perfecting them forever.

For without holiness no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

For it is written...

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

Did you catch that? Jesus is the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY him.


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[Bible Highlighter]

The problem with OSAS is that it ultimately is a license for immorality. For when you say that you can sin and still be saved, you are justifying evil in God's name. That is the problem with such a belief (Whether one claims that they support holiness or not). It minimizes sin and regulates it to being no more dangerous than say a fluffy little kitten because if you do not explain yourself properly, it can easily lead people to think they can do evil in God's good name and still be saved.



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[stuart lawrence]

Hence in rom ch7 Paul tells us we must die toba law of righteousness which includes the moral law of the TC which still are in place under the NC

 

[stuart lawrence]

As for Hebrews 10:14 NLT, it says,
"For by that one offering he forever made perfect those who are being made holy."

This is context to those who are being made holy. If one is not being holy, then Christ's one time sacrifice will not be perfecting them forever.

For without holiness no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

For it is written...

"And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him." (Hebrews 5:9).

Did you catch that? Jesus is the author of eternal salvation unto all them that OBEY him.


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If you are BEING made holy you are imperfect in the flesh. If you were not imperfect in the flesh you would already be fully holy, not BEING made holy.
And while you are BEING made holy you are forever perfect in Gods sight.
How us this possible?

For God sees the sacrifice his son made for you at Calvary, not your imperfections.

That would not be possible if Jesus only died for past sins

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Romans 7 is in reference to Old Covenant Law because otherwise Paul would be contradicting himself. For he said in 1 Corinthians 14:37 that what he had written should be regarded as the Lord's Commandments. So are we free from Paul's writings because they are Laws or Commands? Surely not. Paul made reference many times to the word "law" being in reference to the Old Covenant and not the New Covenant. Romans 7:6 says we are to SERVE in NEWNESS of the Spirit (NT Law) and not in the OLDNESS of the LETTER (i.e. the OT Law). Paul even says in Romans 3:1, "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?" Again, circumcision is of the Old Covenant Law and not the New Covenant Law.

But we actually fulfill the righteous aspect or part of the Old Law (i.e. the Law of Love - See Romans 13:8-10) by walking after the Spirit in Christ Jesus (Romans 8:4). For Romans 8:2 mentions TWO Laws. One law sets us free from the other law. One law is New and the other is Old.



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[stuart lawrence]

The problem with OSAS is that it ultimately is a license for immorality. For when you say that you can sin and still be saved, you are justifying evil in God's name. That is the problem with such a belief (Whether one claims that they support holiness or not). It minimizes sin and regulates it to being no more dangerous than say a fluffy little kitten because if you do not explain yourself properly, it can easily lead people to think they can do evil in God's good name and still be saved.



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The above post once again fails to appreciate the core foundation on which the NC stands. According to that core foundation a licence to sin is removed.

It seems many only want to obey God for they are afraid of being cast into hell I they don't. No love for God there

 

[stuart lawrence]

Romans 7 is in reference to Old Covenant Law because otherwise Paul would be contradicting himself. For he said in 1 Corinthians 14:37 that what he had written should be regarded as the Lord's Commandments. So are we free from Paul's writings because they are Laws or Commands? Surely not. Paul made reference many times to the word "law" being in reference to the Old Covenant and not the New Covenant. Romans 7:6 says we are to SERVE in NEWNESS of the Spirit (NT Law) and not in the OLDNESS of the LETTER (i.e. the OT Law). Paul even says in Romans 3:1, "What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?" Again, circumcision is of the Old Covenant Law and not the New Covenant Law.



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Once again scripture clearly proves you wrong.
Thou shalt not covet is part of NC law. And Tha commandment was used by Paul as the example of why he had to die to a law of righteousness.
Again
Produce just one verse of scripture from anywhere in the NT that states Christ died to solely annul a law of righteousness concerning torah, and not the moral law.
Rom ch7"proves your belief wrong. I cant understand why you still want to argue against it.
Desperation I suppose

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus talks about love.
He says if you love me, keep my commandments (John 14:15).
Is one loving Jesus today by keeping His commandments?


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[Bible Highlighter]

Jesus says he came not to destroy Law (Matthew 5:17).
Hebrews 7:12 says the Law has changed.
Jesus says depart from me you workers of lawlessness (Matthew 7:23 ESV).


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