Once Saved Always Saved - Why is it so hard?

[Bible Highlighter]

Of course it was Saul the Pharisee I rom ch7 being spoken of.
Doesn't change the fact Paul the christian used thou shalt not covet as the example of why he had to die to a law of righteousness

Again, Paul is referencing the Old Law. He was not a New Covenant believer yet when he was a Pharisee. He did not believe in Jesus. So this was his struggle concerning an eternal moral law that was contained within the Law of Moses (i.e. the 613 Commands within the Old Testament).

When Paul says he is not under the Law, he is talking about the Law of Moses and not all law. If Paul was talking about all law then he could not repented as per God's Command (Acts 17:30) and he could not have believed in Jesus as per Christ's command (1 John 3:23).


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Also, we have to realize that even certain moral laws under the Old Law like the 9 out of the 10 commandments (Not including the Sabbath) were attached with death penalties (if one were to disobey them). However, that is not the case today under the New Covenant. We are under God's grace and not the Law. So Hebrews 7:12 is right. The Law has changed. The Scriptures do not say there is no more law (Whereby we can say we are not under it). For to say that we are not under a law, means to deny that there is no law for us to obey. But yet, we can see many laws and commands given to us in the New Testament, though.


...

 

[stuart lawrence]

Again, Paul is referencing the Old Law. He was not a New Covenant believer yet when he was a Pharisee. He did not believe in Jesus. So this was his struggle concerning an eternal moral law that was contained within the Law of Moses (i.e. the 613 Commands within the Old Testament).

When Paul says he is not under the Law, he is talking about the Law of Moses and not all law. If Paul was talking about all law then he could not repented as per God's Command (Acts 17:30) and he could not have believed in Jesus as per Christ's command (1 John 3:23).


...

When Paul spoke of not bein

Again, Paul is referencing the Old Law. He was not a New Covenant believer yet when he was a Pharisee. He did not believe in Jesus. So this was his struggle concerning an eternal moral law that was contained within the Law of Moses (i.e. the 613 Commands within the Old Testament).

When Paul says he is not under the Law, he is talking about the Law of Moses and not all law. If Paul was talking about all law then he could not repented as per God's Command (Acts 17:30) and he could not have believed in Jesus as per Christ's command (1 John 3:23).


...

When Paul spoke of dying to the law he gave the example. Thou shalt not covet as the reason he must do so.

Yet you say the christian is under a law of righteousness concerning that commandment.

Question

If someone loves God will they wilfully oppose the message of scripture?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Also, we have to realize that even certain moral laws under the Old Law like the 9 out of the 10 commandments (Not including the Sabbath) were attached with death penalties (if one were to disobey them). However, that is not the case today under the New Covenant. So Hebrews 7:12 is right. The Law has changed. The Scriptures do not say there is no more law (Whereby we can say we are not under it). For to say that we are not under a law, means to deny that there is no law for us to obey. But yet, we can see many laws and commands given to us in the New Testament, though.


...

Absolutely, the TC/ law written on stone was attached with death penalties under the old covenant.
And those laws are now written on tablets of human hearts( 2cor3:3)

And as you say, it is not the case today you pay the penalty of transgressing them by death
Why not?

A law of righteousness has been removed

 

[Bible Highlighter]

When Paul spoke of not bein
When Paul spoke of dying to the law he gave the example. Thou dhalt not covet as the reason he must go do.

Yet you say the christian is under a law of righteousness concerning that commandment.

Question

If someone loves God will they wilfully oppose the message of scripture?

I have explained it. You simply do not understand it because it goes against something that you have learned from other men and not by simply reading the Word on your own in prayer. Most people do naturally come away with the conclusion of OSAS after reading the Scriptures. There are too many conditional statements on salvation that say otherwise.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Absolutely, the TC/ law written on stone was attached with death penalties under the old covenant.
And those laws are now written on tablets of human hearts( 2cor3:3)

And as you say, it is not the case today you pay the penalty of transgressing them by death
Why not?

A law of righteousness has been removed

The Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12).
It has not been removed.


...

 

[stuart lawrence]

I have explained it. You simply do not understand it because it goes against something that you have learned from other men and not by simply reading the Word on your own in prayer. Most people do naturally come away with the conclusion of OSAS after reading the Scriptures. There are too many conditional statements on salvation that say otherwise.


...


...

No man taught me what I believe concerning rom ch7.

In my view you are in a lot of trouble concerning your faith.
Paul plainly gives the example of thou shalt not covet as the reason he had to die to the law. No one I have ever discussed Thi with opposed that scriptural truth. But you do, and you do so wilfully

 

[stuart lawrence]

The Law has changed (Hebrews 7:12).
It has not been removed.


...

You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but the spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts 2 cor3:3

Thou shalt not covet has not changed, it simply got transferred from tablets of stone to tablets of human hearts.

But keep opposing the message of the NC if you like. You are only hurting yourself

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You said before that laws still exist. But do not Christians shine forth the goodness of God or Christ by being different than this sinful world? Is not their obedience to Christ's commands that make them stand out as being a holy and separate people? If they obey these commands as per their Lord's request according to Scripture, then surely they are under these laws. Christians today are not obeying Jesus. But Jesus says, why do you call me Lord, Lord if you do not do what I say? Jesus says if you are my friends if you do whatever I command you. Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments.


...

 

[stuart lawrence]

You said before that laws still exist. But do not Christians shine forth the goodness of God or Christ by being different than this sinful world? Is not their obedience to Christ's commands that make them stand out as being a holy and separate people? If they obey these commands as per their Lord's request according to Scripture, then surely they are under these laws. Christians today are not obeying Jesus. But Jesus says, why do you call me Lord, Lord if you do not do what I say? Jesus says if you are my friends if you do whatever I command you. Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments.


...

You don't even try and obey each and every literal command of Christ, so your post speaks of hypocrisy.
And this is another example of you resisting what Paul stated:

Carry each others burdens( love them) and so fulfill the law of Christ Gal6:2

 

[stuart lawrence]

I think that will do for tonight.

Goodnight

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You don't even try and obey each and every literal command of Christ, so your post speaks of hypocrisy.
And this is another example of you resisting what Paul stated:

Carry each others burdens( love them) and so fulfill the law of Christ Gal6:2

Yes, I do strive to obey every literal command from Jesus and His followers. Why wouldn't I want to do that? Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments.

As for your point on Galatians 6:2: Well, this verse has to be read in context to Galatians 5:19-21 whereby it lists sins like murder, drunkeness, and adultery, etc. whereby those who do such things will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

Meaning, there is a difference between a Christian stumbling on occasion (with true repentance) on his road to overcoming sin vs. (versus) say treating sin as if it is no big deal and that it will not cause a person to face the second death.

Remember, Jesus will send his angels and gather out of HIS Kingdom all who offend (sin) and who work iniquity (intense sin) and cast them into the furnace of fire (i.e. the Lake of Fire) (Matthew 13:41-42).


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

You don't even try and obey each and every literal command of Christ, so your post speaks of hypocrisy.

And this is another example of you resisting what Paul stated:

Carry each others burdens( love them) and so fulfill the law of Christ Gal6:2

Striving to obey all of God's laws under the New Covenant is better than not even trying to obey them or treating them as if they are not all that big of a deal. We are not our own lords. We are bought and paid for with a price. For we are Christ's workmanship created in Him for good works (and not evil works).

Tell me this. By looking at a person's life overall, should there be a difference between the "saints" and the "aints" behavior wise? Yes, or no?

If yes, then what is that thing that makes their behavior better?
Yes, surely Jesus helps our behavior, but we are not just obeying some voice in our ear. We obey the words of Jesus Christ and the words of His followers according to His Word. These words would be commands or laws. In fact, Paul says that what he had written should be regarded as the Lord's Commandments (1 Corinthians 14:37).


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I remember watching the movie called:

"Encounter: Paradise Lost (2012)."
​

Both me and my wife watched this movie not too long ago on Pureflix. We both were really enjoying this film a lot, when all of sudden we got towards the end of it and we were both like, "Whaaaat???"

Here is part of the Script from one scene in the film:

Jesus:
Rik, can I
ask you a question?

Rik (who is a cop):
Can I stop you?

Jesus:
Is all this anger
and hatred,
is it going to bring
your sister Michelle back?

Bruno (A drug dealer):
What happened to her?

Jesus:
Overdose.
Heroin.​

And then in another scene (towards the end of the movie):

Jesus:
Rik, the moment has come.

Rik:
For what?

Jesus:
For you to decide if you're
going to follow my will to eternal life or your own to destruction.

Rik:
I think you know the answer.

Jesus:
Would it effect
your answer to know that Michelle is with me?
Her tragic cause of death didn't mean that she wasn't saved.
Michelle accepted that for herself
when she was. Now she stands in the very
presence of Father God himself. Her face glows with
joy and contentment beyond comprehension.
I want you to see her there. If you surrender to me
and my will, you will spend
eternity with her.​

Conclusion:

We were in shock! Are people who die of a heroine overdose (because they enjoyed their sin of heroin addiction) still saved just because they accepted Jesus as their Savior once when they were a child? The thing is that it really was a good movie (Except for that one scene). That part of the film was really horrible because it seriously misrepresents Jesus Christ.

However, I guess it should be no surprise. Something like this should be expected by OSAS that is so popular in our day and age today. But the problem with it is that morality or God's goodness has to go ignored on some level in order to justify it.

Side Note:

Oh, and yes, I went into the film knowing that it was not possible for Jesus to even appear like this. For Jesus will return in the same way He left (By the coming of the clouds). But I was willing to overlook that detail if the rest of the film was good enough so as to lead people to Christ. However, little did I know that the film supported immorality, though.


...

 

[ToBeLoved]

Also, we have to realize that even certain moral laws under the Old Law like the 9 out of the 10 commandments (Not including the Sabbath) were attached with death penalties (if one were to disobey them). However, that is not the case today under the New Covenant. We are under God's grace and not the Law. So Hebrews 7:12 is right. The Law has changed. The Scriptures do not say there is no more law (Whereby we can say we are not under it). For to say that we are not under a law, means to deny that there is no law for us to obey. But yet, we can see many laws and commands given to us in the New Testament, though.


...

What part of the law would not be kept probably if we are under the two commandments Jesus left us with?

Think for a few minutes about it.

 

[ToBeLoved]

I think that will do for tonight.

Goodnight

Goodnight brother.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

What part of the law would not be kept probably if we are under the two commandments Jesus left us with?

Think for a few minutes about it.

There are many things in the New Testament that explains the specifics in how to love. It's why God put those detailed little commands in your New Testament in the first place. If God did not see them as important, He would not have put them in your Bible.

Think about that for a few minutes.


...

 

[Bible Highlighter]

I mean, it is kind of silly.
Time and time again I see some OSAS proponents claim that we are not under any law, but then they scramble to say that they are not defending a license to sin and that they obey God. Obey God exactly how? In what way? Some will say that we just have the 2 Greatest Commandments to follow. But this again is just not true. Jesus did not say that these were the only two commands we are to follow and then simply ignore the rest of the commands He and His followers had given to us. Jesus never says that. People just have a problem with obeying Jesus. It is simple as that! They do not want to obey Him. But Jesus says His brothers and sisters are those who do the will of God, though. Is one in the will of God if they are sinning or breaking God's laws?


...

 

[supescritter]

Galatians 6:8 says,
"For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting."

Are you sowing to the flesh or are you sowing to the Spirit?
...

There are other verses (see the Video in the first post) that indicate that "acts of the flesh" is actually trying to follow the law. Let's face it: decent people all try to do the right thing, but we do it by our own strength - we follow our flesh (eg. the Buddhists). Sowing to the Spirit is forgoing the flesh (depending on works) and having faith in His grace. If we interpret "sowing in the flesh" and "acts of the flesh" as trying to follow the law, then suddenly Gal 6:8 has a whole new meaning.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

There are other verses (see the Video in the first post) that indicate that "acts of the flesh" is actually trying to follow the law. Let's face it: decent people all try to do the right thing, but we do it by our own strength - we follow our flesh (eg. the Buddhists). Sowing to the Spirit is forgoing the flesh (depending on works) and having faith in His grace. If we interpret "sowing in the flesh" and "acts of the flesh" as trying to follow the law, then suddenly Gal 6:8 has a whole new meaning.

It is true that the works of the flesh is in reference to the Law in Galatians 6:8. But it is in reference to the Old Law. Specifically circumcision in this particular instance.

"For neither they themselves who are circumcised keep the law; but desire to have you circumcised, that they may glory in your flesh." (Galatians 6:13).​

It is sin to try and go back to the Old Law of circumcision. For if we seek to be circumcised, Christ will profit us nothing (Galatians 5:2).

But works of the flesh is also in reference to serious sins in general, too. How so? Skip back a chapter and it says this,

19 "Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God." (Galatians 5:19-21).​

They which do such things shall not inherit the Kingdom of God. So yes. Christians are under some kind of laws. For we cannot go around murdering, getting drunk, sleeping around, and or indulging in witchcraft without the consequence of not inheriting the kingdom of God (if we do not repent of such sins).


...