Once Saved Always Saved - Why is it so hard?

[stuart lawrence]

So you saying there are two or more gospels? One Jesus preached and one Paul preached? This is Mid Acts Dispensationalism and it is false. Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any man speaks contrary to the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine of Godliness is proud and knows nothing.


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You didn't answer the question.
Lets try again

Which covenant was in existence when Christ walked Thi earth?
Which covenant was in existence when Paul wrote his letters.

If you choose to respond to a post, please respond to the question asked in it

 

[Bible Highlighter]

The letter kills because:

The Ten Commandments are an inflexible law.

Who is talking excusively about the Ten Commandments?
I am sure not.
For one, the Saturday Sabbath is no longer binding under the New Covenant or New Testament.
Two, Paul says if you love your neighbor, you fulfill the Law like not murdering, not stealing, or not committing adultery, etc. (Romans 13:8-10).

There is no pass mark of obedience to them to entitle you to attain heaven.
Perfectly obey them or stand guilty before them.
There is nothing in those commands that speak of mercy or forgiveness

That is why the Pharisee's Law based alone salvationism didn't work. They for one did not have Jesus Christ. Two, they were also obeying themselves and not following Jesus and what He wanted them to do. You know... those pesky commands of Jesus that you love so much.

Again, Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments.
Do you love Jesus like that?

Shall we do evil so that good may come?


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[stuart lawrence]

Is this going to be a one way Q&A? With me on the A side?

As I am sure you know, under the new covenant the law God desires you to keep is written on your mind and placed on your heart. Because Tha has happened your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more. That us the core foundation on which the new covenant stands.
The rich man had not had the law written on his mind and placed on his heart had he, for he met Jesus whilst the old covenant was in operation

 

[stuart lawrence]

Who is talking excusively about the Ten Commandments?
I am sure not.
For one, the Saturday Sabbath is no longer binding under the New Covenant or New Testament.
Two, Paul says if you love your neighbor, you fulfill the Law like not murdering, not stealing, or not committing adultery, etc. (Romans 13:8-10).



That is why the Pharisee's Law based alone salvationism didn't work. They for one did not have Jesus Christ. Two, they were also obeying themselves and not following Jesus and what He wanted them to do. You know... those pesky commands of Jesus that you love so much.

Again, Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments.
Do you love Jesus like that?

Shall we do evil so that good may come?


...

Paul tells us how to fulfill the law of Christ. He disagrees with you as to how Thi is achieved. I will follow Paul on this matter.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Matthew 7:23
Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.'

Notice that He doesn't say, to depart from Him because they didn't keep the commandments.

Sigh. Lawless is the opposite of obeying Law.
Laws are the same things as Commandments or Commands.

In fact, just stop and please read the whole chapter please.
It does not defend the Antinomian view at all.
On the contrary, it defends obedience to Jesus as being necessary in being right with Him. How so?

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)

So those who do the WILL of the Father will enter heaven.
What is the will of the Father (or God)?
Scripture says,
"God's will is for you to be holy" (1 Thessalonians 4:3 NLT).
For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

And here is another one.

26 "And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."
(Matthew 7:26-27).


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[stuart lawrence]

Who is talking excusively about the Ten Commandments?
I am sure not.
For one, the Saturday Sabbath is no longer binding under the New Covenant or New Testament.
Two, Paul says if you love your neighbor, you fulfill the Law like not murdering, not stealing, or not committing adultery, etc. (Romans 13:8-10).



That is why the Pharisee's Law based alone salvationism didn't work. They for one did not have Jesus Christ. Two, they were also obeying themselves and not following Jesus and what He wanted them to do. You know... those pesky commands of Jesus that you love so much.

Again, Jesus says if you love me, keep my commandments.
Do you love Jesus like that?

Shall we do evil so that good may come?


...

Let me put it another way.
You say if we love Christ we will obey his commands mentioned in the gospels.
Safe to assume you do not even try and obey each and every literal command of Christ.
Therefore, according to what you preach, you are condemned according to the letter of commandments.

Is that a better example to give?

So for you, the letter kills

 

[Kenny'sID]

The Ten Commandments are an inflexible law. There is no pass mark of obedience to them to entitle you to attain heaven.
Perfectly obey them or stand guilty before them.
There is nothing in those commands that speak of mercy or forgiveness

Christ spoke of the mercy and forgiveness so if one breaks the law, it can be forgiven, so why would we need a defined "pass mark". Not all tha different here from the old covenant. Old covenant... animals were sacrificed, but Christ took the place of that. As to the putting to death for many of the sins in the old covenant, we know perfectly well, that doesn't happen now so it is forgiven and we are allowed to continue our lives so God can see how it goes. Even in extreme cases where God kept the death penalty due to horrific murders, which makes perfect sense, Id guess they are forgiven if they accept Christ, it's only that they need to be removed from society because that's a sin that affects others, and we/God can't allow lives to be taken away like that.

 

[Aldebaran]

Sigh. Lawless is the opposite of obeying Law.
Laws are the same things as Commandments or Commands.

In fact, just stop and please read the whole chapter please.
It does not defend the Antinomian view at all.
On the contrary, it defends obedience to Jesus as being necessary in being right with Him. How so?

"Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven." (Matthew 7:21)

So those who do the WILL of the Father will enter heaven.
What is the will of the Father (or God)?
Scripture says,
"God's will is for you to be holy" (1 Thessalonians 4:3 NLT).
For without holiness, no man shall see the Lord (Hebrews 12:14).

And here is another one.

26 "And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:
27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it."
(Matthew 7:26-27).


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Then how do you explain John 3:16?

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Paul tells us how to fulfill the law of Christ. He disagrees with you as to how Thi is achieved. I will follow Paul on this matter.

So you are bearing the burdens of your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ?

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[stuart lawrence]

Christ spoke of the mercy and forgiveness so if one breaks the law, it can be forgiven, so why would we need a defined "pass mark". Not all tha different here from the old covenant. Old covenant... animals were sacrificed, but Christ took the place of that. As to the putting to death for many of the sins in the old covenant, we know perfectly well, that doesn't happen now so it is forgiven and we are allowed to continue our lives so God can see how it goes. Even in extreme cases where God kept the death penalty due to horrific murders, which makes perfect sense, Id guess they are forgiven if they accept Christ, it's only that they need to be removed from society because that's a sin that affects others, and we/God can't allow lives to be taken away like that.

If you believe heaven us obtained under a law of righteousness you mus yet perfectly obey the law.

For whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it
Hames2:10

So under the law, it is sinless perfection or you stand guilty of breaking the whole law.

Hence the letter kills

 

[Bible Highlighter]

As I am sure you know, under the new covenant the law God desires you to keep is written on your mind and placed on your heart. Because Tha has happened your sins and lawless deeds will be remembered no more. That us the core foundation on which the new covenant stands.
The rich man had not had the law written on his mind and placed on his heart had he, for he met Jesus whilst the old covenant was in operation

Sigh. The Law of God was also written upon the hearts of OT saints who lived by faith. This means they were obedient to OT Law. Today, faithful Christians have the Law written on their hearts, too. This means they are obedient to NT Law by faith in Jesus and His words. Having the Law written on your heart means that God's Commands are ingrained deep within you (Whereby you are obedient to them). But you appear to be against God's Laws, though.


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[stuart lawrence]

So you are bearing the burdens of your fellow brothers and sisters in Christ?

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Helping others with their burdens on websites such as these is opposing those who do not practice what they preach, for me.
For the hypocrites crushed people with impossible demands didn't they( matt23:2&3)

 

[Kenny'sID]

Notice that He doesn't say, to depart from Him because they didn't keep the commandments.

So because Christ didn't cover all rules right then and there, does that mean those rules aren't in effect?

 

[stuart lawrence]

Sigh. The Law of God was also written upon the hearts of OT saints who lived by faith. This means they were obedient to OT Law. Today, faithful Christians have the Law written on their hearts, too. This means they are obedient to NT Law by faith in Jesus and His words. Having the Law written on your heart means that God's Commands are ingrained deep within you (Whereby you are obedient to them). But you appear to be against God's Laws, though.


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Do you deny, specific to the new covenant is the law being written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer?

 

[Aldebaran]

Sigh. The Law of God was also written upon the hearts of OT saints who lived by faith. This means they were obedient to OT Law. Today, faithful Christians have the Law written on their hearts, too. This means they are obedient to NT Law by faith in Jesus and His words. Having the Law written on your heart means that God's Commands are ingrained deep within you (Whereby you are obedient to them). But you appear to be against God's Laws, though.


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Then what was the whole point of Jesus coming to Earth as a human, dying on the cross, being raised from the dead and ascending to Heaven? I don't think it was simply so we could have a NT in addition to the OT.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

If you believe heaven us obtained under a law of righteousness you mus yet perfectly obey the law.

For whoever keeps the whole law yet stumbles at just one point is guilty of breaking all of it
Hames2:10

So under the law, it is sinless perfection or you stand guilty of breaking the whole law.

Hence the letter kills

Read the context of what James is talking about. What law was the people breaking? It was having respect of persons in regards to giving favor to the rich over the poor. It is not loving all your brothers equally. James was not making a case for committing any kind of sin here. It was a very serious sin. James is saying if you commit serious sin like having respect of persons among the brethren, you break the whole of God's laws. Because it is foundational to love. For he that does not love does not know God (1 John 4:8).

Again, not all sins are the same.
See 1 John 5:16-18.


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[Aldebaran]

So because Christ didn't cover all rules right then and there, does that mean those rules aren't in effect?

Knowing someone goes much deeper than "Obey all my commandments".

What is being forgotten here is that when we accept Christ's gift of salvation to us, we become adopted sons of God. We become His children. That's a relationship that goes beyond obedience to commands. Even a relationship between an employer and employee can go beyond that.

 

[Bible Highlighter]

Do you deny, specific to the new covenant is the law being written on the mind and placed on the heart of the believer?

I do not deny it. I believe I practice it.
David said he hid His Word within his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord (Psalms 119:11). This is what believers today can do, too.

Hiding God's Word in one's heart will help one to overcome sin.
How do you define writing the Law within your heart?
Do you actually believe that?


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[stuart lawrence]

Read the context of what James is talking about. What law was the people breaking? It was having respect of persons in regards to giving favor to the rich over the poor. It is not loving all your brothers equally. James was not making a case for committing any kind of sin here. It was a very serious sin. James is saying if you commit serious sin like having respect of persons among the brethren, you break the whole of God's laws. Because it is foundational to love. For he that does not love does not know God (1 John 4:8).

Again, not all sins are the same.
See 1 John 5:16-18.


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Wrong. James 2:10 is in perfect alignment with Gal3:10&11 and rom4:14

 

[stuart lawrence]

I do not deny it. I believe I practice it.
David said he hid His Word within his heart so that he may not sin against the Lord (Psalms 119:11). This is what believers today can do, too.

Hiding God's Word in one's heart will help one to overcome sin.
How do you define writing the Law within your heart?
Do you actually believe that?


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Good, so you do not deny SPECIFIC to the new covenant is the law being written on the mind and placed on the heart of the christian