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There's a nagging thought in the back of my mind saying there's something significant about the wording in terms of first century rabbinic dialogue/debate, but I can't ferret out anything more than that there's a connection here we should be aware of. Maybe it will come to me later.....@Think...
In regards to the young rich ruler (see Mk 10:17-22), it is more likely that he supposed Jesus only to be a good teacher. Though, he gave him the kind of respect and honor one would have for a king, and so he assisted his faith. Christ would have him mean that he looked upon him to be God when he called him "good master" and seized on those words and used it to test the man's faith. He then tested him on his understanding of goodness. The young man supposed himself to be a good man, not realizing no one has kept the Ten Commandments perfectly but Jesus. Some have suggested that he actually gained his wealth by extortion and is the reason he went away sad. One of the things mentioned is “do not defraud”, which is an unusual thing to say in the middle of giving some of the Ten Commandments. He gave him five horizontal commandments, commandments to do with his fellow man. Instead of the tenth commandment, Thou shalt not covet, our Savior here puts, Defraud not.* By what follows, he showed this man that his god was his money.
*Since the wording is unique to Mark's account, it could just be a paraphrase against coveting.
Where are you getting this question? He was explaining an aspect of a passage, and you jump to this?Do you believe Jesus is God?
Yes or no?
Can I get some of your guys opinions on this issue?
Does the Bible teach that once you are saved, you can always saved or can you actually fall out of your salvation
by rejecting it and living a non-Christian life? Or would that indicate that you were never truly saved to begin with?
I agree with the doctrine once saved always saved, I have for 46 years.I couldn't agree more and I too wish that were the case.
I also wish all Christians everywhere could agree on the same doctrines, but unfortunately, we have divisions and wolves that divide us, ... just as the Bible told us we would.
My mistake, I interpreted your question as rhetorical, but that's not correct. The first time you asked me if Jesus is God, it was stated in the negative--you don't believe Jesus is God? This question is better off being answered with clarification so there is no confusion. Grammatically the yes/no response is flipped to no/yes to answer correctly. I don't believe Jesus is God? No.How does that make any sense at all?
I asked you a simple, direct question ... TWICE.
The first time, you beat around the bush and gave me the run around.
The second time, you declare that I must answer your question first?
Who are you?
Your sincerity and credibility are greatly in question and I don't have any need to converse with children who are here to play silly games.
Have fun.
Just before Matt 7:21-23 in Matt 7-15 Jesus speaks of true and false prophets and how to judge them by their fruits. This is who he is speaking of in Matt 7-21-23 you need to put scripture in context.I totally agree, but the Bible does seem to indicate that we can be rejected even with our gifts.
Look at Matthew 7:21-23.
Those who are IN Christ are those who have been given the Faith to believe in Him and to walk in His ways. Unfortunately, there does appear to be cases where these believers, who have been gifted with faith, and the conditional promise of Salvation IF they stay the course, are rejected.
Look at John 15:1-6.
Yes, gifts remain. And yes, the call remains, even if we walk away and even if we put it off, BUT if we die in a state of disgrace, in a state of disbelief, we are doomed.
Jesus says so Himself.
"If you do not believe that I AM (God), you will die in your sins."
John 8:24
He is effectively saying that His sacrifice, His Spirit, cannot cover us in certain instances based on OUR doing, or lack thereof.
How else would these verses make any sense?
"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge..."
Hosea 4:6
"And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received (developed) not the love of the Truth (Jesus), that they might be saved."
2 Thessalonians 2:10
You see, God considers it an unrighteous thing to be deceived. If one is deceived to believe in a False Gospel, they are in misalignment with God. But those who stay true to their faith, continue to study God's Word, continue to obey the Commandments - keeping the Covenant, will not be capable of being deceived.
There is a quote:
"It is impossible to enslave, mentally or socially, a Bible-reading people."
-Horace Greeley
The full weight of your post seems to indicate that you agree that Christians, those IN Christ, can be lost.
Is that what you intended to convey?
Do you believe that Christians, those who believe - and are IN - Christ, can be False Prophets?
Do you believe that those who believe in Christ, and who by faith use the power of His Name to cast out demons, can lose their Salvation?
Just clarifying is all.
Most questions have some relationship to what prompted them.Where does any question come from, what difference does it make and how is it any of your business?
The question bore no relation to what had been said. In fact it's more than a bit offensive and ought to qualify as "goading".It's a simple, direct, innocent, harmless question.
The question you should be asking is why can't he answer it with a simple yes or no.
A question is asked to clarify somebody's stance so that further discussion can ensue with a better understanding of where both parties lie in their beliefs.
Since when is a simple question HEADLINE NEWS?
This made me think of one of the founders of the Newsboys who is now an atheist. That puzzles me given how edifying a fair amount of their songs were. It also made me wonder what's become of the rest of them, since none of the original members are even in the group any more!For those who believe in OSAS, I'm curious what your thoughts are with regard to people who accepted Jesus as children, never doubted, believed wholeheartedly, but as they grew older they began to doubt and eventually stopped believing.
I don't think one can claim that they were not saved in the first place. I know many people who were devout as children but as adults they claim to be athiests or pagans and reject Jesus completely.
Personally, much like universalism, I would love to believe in OSAS because either one would mean certain people I love would ultimately be saved despite the lifestyles and beliefs they follow now. But I haven't seen a convincing argument from scripture for either, yet.
Psalm 139 16 tells us that God writes the book of our life at or before our conception. We are given gifts, talents, and abilities and we decide if we want to use what God gives us to bring Him praise, honor and glory. So God does not reject us and He does not scare us. He encourages us to be all HE created us to be. The Angels watch over us to see if we follow His plan for us or not. People are judged by what is written in the books. Revelation 20 12Does the Bible teach that once you are saved, you can always saved or can you actually fall out of your salvation
by rejecting it and living a non-Christian life? Or would that indicate that you were never truly saved to begin with?
You see, I interpreted your question as rhetorical the first time because of the way it was worded. If you were to replace the question with a period it would read—you don’t believe Jesus is God.—as in, it sounded like you had a reason to think otherwise by something I posted. I don’t know grammar all that well, so I don’t know for sure if the question is rhetorical or if it worded as a sincere question. Would it have the same effect if you worded the question like this—do you not believe Jesus is God?Where does any question come from, what difference does it make and how is it any of your business?
It's a simple, direct, innocent, harmless question.
The question you should be asking is why can't he answer it with a simple yes or no.
A question is asked to clarify somebody's stance so that further discussion can ensue with a better understanding of where both parties lie in their beliefs.
Since when is a simple question HEADLINE NEWS?
What I was attempting to do here is explain the meaning of Mark 10:18 by paraphrasing from a commentary from Matthew Henry. I replied to you in the first place because of something you directed to Roymond in the following.Christ would have him mean that he looked upon him to be God when he called him "good master" and seized on those words and used it to test the man's faith. He then tested him on his understanding of goodness.
From what I understand when Jesus said to the rich young ruler, "Why do you call me good? No one is good except God alone." it might sound like he is saying that he is not good, but he never states it directly.Scripture also says that Jesus is not Good, while Jesus Himself says He is the Good Shepherd elsewhere.
It is my understanding that he responded this way to the man because he didn't know to whom he was asking the question.I didn't say Jesus is not good, I said the Bible says that in Mark 10:18, but I was just making a point. You're the only one who ignored the fact that I immediately followed with 'Jesus is the Good Shepherd.'
Certainly people who are not saved will not endure when trouble or persecution comes. God Bless
Hello seeker. Definitely not. As you're here discussing these matters. The category I am talking about would have no interest in even discussing this (they would have no idea about or interest in what we're talking about) God BlessThen that means since I cannot endure and always fall out when I encounter troubles, difficulties and discouragement, I was never saved when I thought I was. That means I've been living my entire life as a lie. I'm still not saved.
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