Once Saved Always Saved: True, False, or Misrepresented?

[bbbbbbb]

Well, I guess you and I could be cell-mates in hell, then. top bunk or bottom?

I'll be joining you guys, as well. I think our cell will be pretty crowded.

 

[bbbbbbb]

I was baptized as a child, and raised as a Christian.

For many years I committed many sins.

Jesus started teaching me, and I stopped sinning.

Later Jesus told me to go be cleaned. I knew he meant go confess my past sins. I did what he told me to do.

After confessing my past sins, Jesus told me I was clean and he could use me.

Jesus has kept me free from sin/Satan ever sense that time.

One needs to know that to love Jesus one needs to live his whole Word. To be protected by Jesus one needs to be living God’s whole Word.

Read what God called us to live, and see if you are living what Jesus told us to live.

Let me ask you a few questions. Can you honestly say that you love your neighbor as yourself? Have you given all that you own to those who lack those things? Do you feed and care for them even as you would for yourself?

 

[sculleywr]

There are people who get their questions answered and there are MORE who do not. Why do you think that is?

There are strangers that Jesus doesn't know nor does He want to know them.

It is possible to see these things and still not condemn other believers to eternal death or eternal dismemberment.

http://www.google.com/imgres?hl=en&...tbnh=199&tbnw=128&start=0&ndsp=16&tx=28&ty=18Truth is much stranger than fiction



s

So God's knowledge has limits? To quote the guy from the shining: "Boink, WRONG!"

His knowledge, in fact, is “perfect [Job 37:16] and is “beyond measure” [Psa. 147:5]. He sees every move we make, He knows the innermost thoughts of our hearts and He even knows what we are going to say before we say it [1 Sam. 16:7; 1 Chron. 28:9; Psa. 139:1-6; Jer. 17:10; Heb. 4:12-13]. Unlike the false gods of our time, the Lord knows everything: Even what’s going to happen in the future [Isa. 41:21-24; 42:9; 44:7]. Jesus, interestingly enough, also tells us that our heavenly Father numbers the very hairs on our head. By the way, it’s interesting to note that God actually revealed to Isaiah the name of Cyrus even before he was actually born — in fact, one century before he was born. Cyrus, of course, was the king who returned the Jews to their homeland after the Babylonian exile [Isa. 44:28-45:1]

 

[squint]

So God's knowledge has limits? To quote the guy from the shining: "Boink, WRONG!"

I see no benefit in you having a discussion about me when I'm not involved.

Where in the world did you come up with that one?

If it is from my statement that there are strangers to God in Christ you may turn to the following, and I quote:

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Go look up the definition of 'a stranger.'

 

[sculleywr]

I see no benefit in you having a discussion about me when I'm not involved.

Where in the world did you come up with that one?

If it is from my statement that there are strangers to God in Christ you may turn to the following, and I quote:

Matthew 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

Go look up the definition of 'a stranger.'

Seeing as how you stated "There are people which Christ does not KNOW", it is a logical assumption that, since Christ is God, there is a limit to God's knowledge, according to your statement.

 

[squint]

Seeing as how you stated "There are people which Christ does not KNOW", it is a logical assumption that, since Christ is God, there is a limit to God's knowledge, according to your statement.

Just looking at His Own Statement.

Thanks for your concern.

We probably have a different view of the term people, I would suspect.

s

 

[FredVB]

If you are saved according to real faith you have in Jesus Christ as Lord and savior, whose righteousness was for us, dying for us and rising again, it is then the grace of Yahweh God, and you are sealed with his Spirit, you never will be removed, it is his work, things are written that we may know we who have come to him with that real faith have eternal life. There are some passages that some believe to mean they can lose that, but generally those are about keeping or losing blessings. We have assurances written in the Bible for us.

Passages in Hebrews 10 that some take to mean salvation may possibly be lost to those who truly have it are in the epistle written to keep those whom the apostle addressed from returning again to the Jewish religion, under the trials to which they were subjected. The passages are about some who receive knowledge of truth, that is, they hear and understand the gospel, it is not speaking necessarily of those who respond in faith to Christ as their Lord and savior and loving God in return. Those who come to that point of understanding and still trust in observance of Jewish Law for their salvation would insult the gospel of Christ. But the believers with true faith are assured.

This writing, just as other new testament epistles as well, was written to believers in churches, where in their assembly it was the only place they would hear it, and just as we know it is pretty much always some who are not true believers creep in. This was warning all to make sure of their belief, and to believers the if of what can happen with a rejection off God"s grace, which is what happens among those who are not true believers. This understanding is correct with believing the verses already shown for our assurance. But if there is deliberate sin to worry about, this applies to condemning others.

1 John 1: 9 If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our
sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
5: 10 He who believes in the Son of God has the witness in himself; he who does not believe God has made Him a liar, because he has not believed the testimony that God has given of His Son. 11 And this is the testimony: that God has given us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. 12 He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. 13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, that you may know that you have eternal life, and that you may continue to believe in the name of the Son of God.

Ephesians 2: 4 God, who is rich in mercy, because of His great love with which He loved us, 5 even when we were dead in trespasses, made us alive together with Christ (by grace you have been saved), 6 and raised us up together, and made us sit together in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 that in the ages to come He might show the exceeding riches of His grace in His kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, 9 not of works, lest anyone should boast. 10 For we are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand that we should walk in them.

Romans 8: 28 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. 29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
31 What then shall we say to these things? If God is for us, who can be against us? 32 He who did not spare His own Son, but delivered Him up for us all, how shall He not with Him also freely give us all things? 33 Who shall bring a charge against God's elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is he who condemns? It is Christ who died, and furthermore is also risen, who is even at the right hand of God, who also makes intercession for us. 35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? 36 As it is written:
"For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."
37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us. 38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come, 39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

I am not sure of what you are trying to point out.

My witness is that Jesus taught me that a Christian does not sin. Also God has protected me from Satan/sin for many years.

Jesus has told me to give a word to people who say they are Christians.

I am doing what Jesus told me to do, and am not judging anyone. Jesus will judge.

People know if they sin or not. People who are led by the Holy Spirit/Jesus will never be led into sin. Those led by the Holy Spirit will be given the grace and guidance to never sin again.

But there are people who have the Holy Spirit and walk in the manifestation of the Holy Spirit but still do not live the whole Word of God. Jesus spoke about such people.

(Matthew 7:21-23) “It is not those who say to me, ‘Lord, Lord’, who will enter the kingdom of Heaven but the person who does the will of My Father in Heaven. When the day comes many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, cast out demons in your name, work many miracles in your name?’ Then I shall tell them to their faces: I have never known you; away from me, you evil men!”

Yes, our Lord Jesus Christ told us to not judge others, and so other believers should not be judged in regards to their remaining saved. But in speaking of rejecting deliberate sin, this is what it should come to in the growth in godly living when truly coming to Christ as he has called, if there has been deliberate sin since then, we can judge for ourselves. We should come to living out what we are told according to all the word of Yahweh God. Can you really say there was never, ever any deliberate sin since you first came to Christ? This would be unique. Yet even Peter was taken back when having denied Christ he wept and repented from it.

 

[Giver]

Let me ask you a few questions. Can you honestly say that you love your neighbor as yourself? Have you given all that you own to those who lack those things? Do you feed and care for them even as you would for yourself?

After accepting Jesus’ call to his ministry, he asked me to give him my life. When I was about to say yes the Holy Spirit let me know that if I gave my life to Jesus I would lose everything I owned. A few months later found me living in a tent with my wife, three babies, and a dog.

After living in a tent for a month and a half, I gave even the tent away to another family that was in need.

I lived from paycheck to paycheck with never any money in a bank.

When our family saw people in need, even though we had very little we shared what we had.

There was a time when we were down to five dollars, and I was out of work and no money coming in. I did not even have food stamps. Yet we saw people we knew from church that had as little as we had, used the five dollars to buy extra food so they could have a Thanksgiving dinner with us.

Yes my wife and I walked the walk that Jesus taught for thirty years.

What possessions I have to use now are all shared with others.

I worked until age seventy-four when my back gave out, and was no longer able to do my job.

I did not learn about living God’s Word from reading about it. No, Jesus taught me to live his word by actually living his Word.

 

[sculleywr]

Just looking at His Own Statement.

Thanks for your concern.

We probably have a different view of the term people, I would suspect.

s

I define people as human beings. As to the term person, that would be any being capable of rational decisions.

 

[sculleywr]

After accepting Jesus’ call to his ministry, he asked me to give him my life. When I was about to say yes the Holy Spirit let me know that if I gave my life to Jesus I would lose everything I owned. A few months later found me living in a tent with my wife, three babies, and a dog.

After living in a tent for a month and a half, I gave even the tent away to another family that was in need.

I lived from paycheck to paycheck with never any money in a bank.

When our family saw people in need, even though we had very little we shared what we had.

There was a time when we were down to five dollars, and I was out of work and no money coming in. I did not even have food stamps. Yet we saw people we knew from church that had as little as we had, used the five dollars to buy extra food so they could have a Thanksgiving dinner with us.

Yes my wife and I walked the walk that Jesus taught for thirty years.

What possessions I have to use now are all shared with others.

I worked until age seventy-four when my back gave out, and was no longer able to do my job.

I did not learn about living God’s Word from reading about it. No, Jesus taught me to live his word by actually living his Word.

That does not mean you did it perfectly. You may be older and more experienced. But you are human. Therefore, you have faults. There was never a time in the life of Paul when he claimed to be without sin. In fact, he referred to himself as the chief of sinners. Never did the Apostles claim that they had rid themselves of sin.

 

[squint]

I define people as human beings. As to the term person, that would be any being capable of rational decisions.

I would strongly suggest your sight is no where near scripturally accurate, but whatever. I believe we've tried it before and I yawned on.

 

[motherprayer]

Since we have to stop sinning to be saved, shouldn't all of us hop off and work on that?

 

[seeingeyes]

Whats interesting is it says...

Though Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, as I live, saith the Lord GOD, they shall deliver neither son nor daughter; they shall but deliver their own souls by their righteousness.

And yet we hear Daniel say...

Dan 9:20 And whiles I was speaking, and praying, and confessing my sin and the sin of my people Israel

Exactly. I think we should look at this as a both/and scenario, rather than either/or.

It was the knowledge of good and evil that did us in.

 

[Fireinfolding]

There are people who get their questions answered and there are MORE who do not. Why do you think that is?

There are strangers that Jesus doesn't know nor does He want to know them.

It is possible to see these things and still not condemn other believers to eternal death or eternal dismemberment.

Truth is much stranger than fiction



s

Jesus had to fulfill the scripture, even as it said here

John 19:36 For these things were done, that the scripture should be fulfilled, A bone of him shall not be broken.

Luke 24:25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

Luke 24:26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?

Says it was determined before as it pertained to Pilate and Herod and not opening his mouth even here...

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Acts 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

So Pilate asked him what is truth, but even Pilate and Herod (of a truth) were against Jesus (who is the truth). This was written in the scripture of truth he came fulfill. For that hour he had come

Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

 

[seeingeyes]

There are two kinds of righteousness spoken of in scripture, righteousness before men and righteousness before God. Before men, righteousness is gauged by attitudes and behaviors. This is the righteousness spoken of in James, and is the righteousness of those you listed in your post, seeingeyes. Righteousness before God is perfect righteousness, which we are unable to achieve, attain or merit. This is the perfect righteousness of Christ, imputed to us by grace alone, through faith in Christ alone, an alien righteousness that is not ours but Christ's.

Well, most in that list were declared righteous by God or by Jesus, surely neither Father nor Son is impressed by 'righteousness before men'. And when Jesus used that phrase, it was definitely not a compliment, though all those I listed were certainly being commended.

Perhaps righteousness is not quite equivalent to 'sinless perfection'?

 

[motherprayer]

Well, most in that list were declared righteous by God or by Jesus, surely neither Father nor Son is impressed by 'righteousness before men'. And when Jesus used that phrase, it was definitely not a compliment, though all those I listed were certainly being commended.

Perhaps righteousness is not quite equivalent to 'sinless perfection'?

Bingo! Amen!

 

[squint]

Jesus had to fulfill the scripture, even as it said here

of course.

Says it was determined before as it pertained to Pilate and Herod and not opening his mouth even here...

Acts 4:27 For of a truth against thy holy child Jesus, whom thou hast anointed, both Herod, and Pontius Pilate, with the Gentiles, and the people of Israel, were gathered together,

Acts 4:28 For to do whatsoever thy hand and thy counsel determined before to be done.

Again, indeed. They were slated, PREdetermined, to RESIST and in that they executed their ROLES exactly as God Himself intended.

I have examined the 'roles, ways and means' of resistors to God for quite a long time, not wanting to be found in that place...

So Pilate asked him what is truth, but even Pilate and Herod (of a truth) against Jesus (who is thr truth) was written in the scripture of truth of truth he came fulfill. For that hour he had come

Acts 3:18 But those things, which God before had shewed by the mouth of all his prophets, that Christ should suffer, he hath so fulfilled.

Yes, but you do understand that God does purposefully withhold information from the majority?

It's such a fascinating construct, we humans.

Matthew 13:14
And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:

To what I call the uninitiated what we dicuss here would be quite unintelligible and senseless. Well at least my posts would be....

Genuine Christians are in fact a very very rare bird and should not be sentenced for any reason to the eternal cooking bag. They are most precious in His Sight.

Jewels of the Most High without any doubt.

Those who seek to diminish the faith of others by dangling them over the eternal flames of hell are not doing themselves or their fellow believers any favors, as much as they might think they are.

s

 

[seeingeyes]

God is Truly A Genius beyond comprehensions. The Word is quite technically marvelous in it's accuracy about the human condition. Especially when the factors of the 'not human' are metered into the equations.

s

Amen!

Our God is Holy, who is like Him? He couldn't possibly make things any easier, and He couldn't possibly make them harder.

 

[squint]

Amen!

Our God is Holy, who is like Him? He couldn't possibly make things any easier, and He couldn't possibly make them harder.

I certainly admire that statement of fact.

 

[DiligentlySeekingGod]

Amen!

Our God is Holy, who is like Him? He couldn't possibly make things any easier, and He couldn't possibly make them harder.

I certainly admire that statement of fact.

I do too.